What's the best way to diagnose hardware problems on Windows XP

[KeyserSoze]

I'm not sure, it might be an OS issue.

My computer is slow. I mean craptastically, unbelievably, slow. I'm reaching my breaking point, where I just want to sit and cry.

Here are the specs, it's a Dell 400SC
P4, 2.8 (With HT disabled)
512 DDR
Some Nvidia GeForce 2 MX (I'm Not a Gamer)
CD-RW Drive AND a DVD-RW Drive (Two seperate Drives)
LeadTek Winfast TV Tuner
40 Gig (Came with the system)
160 Seagate
WinXP Pro

People, It HAS to be hardware at this point.

Symptoms:
Clicking on menu's is sometimes slow, or non-responsive for a few seconds.
Programs take a long time to load. (Small programs as well, like WinAmp.)
Copying/pasting takes too long from one drive to another
The entire machine is just sluggish.

What I do know:
--No Spyware threats at all, my machine is hundred percent clean from multiple programs run in Safe Mode.
--All drivers for hardware have been updated as of a week ago
--VERY few programs remain running the machine, and they are very small, non-resource intensive programs. (Kerio Personal FW, AIM, and PeerGuardian.) Even with these running, the system is still sluggish.

I have searched the web, and even the forums here.

I have no problems reinstalling Windows this weekend, but would like to know if there are any programs that can help identify hardware issues first. Not just benchmarking software, but programs that can maybe identify any bottlenecks on the system. I am willing to pay a little for some good programs if necessary.

Thanks in Advance Anandtech.





KeyserSoze

 

[Matthias99]

Hard drive running in PIO mode instead of DMA? That would make all your disk operations *really* slow.

Could still be a driver conflict as well (just "updating" them is sometimes not enough to fix this). Screwed-up video drivers can make your desktop act really sluggish, and borked chipset drivers can make everything slow. Did you use Driver Cleaner to remove both the video and chipset drivers, and then reinstall them?

As for bad hardware, you can try Memtest86 to test the RAM, and something like Prime95 to test the CPU. You might see if your HD manufacturer has a test utility you can run to check out the drive, or just try Scandisk.

 

[MiniDoom]

Boot to your dell drivers/diagnostic CD and run the test. That is all.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: rdubbz420
Boot to your dell drivers/diagnostic CD and run the test. That is all.

I got three CD's here:
Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistance for PowerEdge SC Systems
Dell Product Documentation -- Supports the Dell PowerEdge 400SC Systems
Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistant

None of them say anything about a diagnostics. I'll check each CD individually.

Thanks people, and keep the suggestions coming.

(And to the above advice, the controllers ARE in DMA Mode. DMA Mode 5 for the primary drive, and DMA Mode 2 for the secondary. I have no idea what the difference is between 5 and 2.)



KeyserSoze

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: KeyserSoze

Originally posted by: rdubbz420
Boot to your dell drivers/diagnostic CD and run the test. That is all.

I got three CD's here:
Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistance for PowerEdge SC Systems
Dell Product Documentation -- Supports the Dell PowerEdge 400SC Systems
Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistant

None of them say anything about a diagnostics. I'll check each CD individually.

Thanks people, and keep the suggestions coming.

(And to the above advice, the controllers ARE in DMA Mode. DMA Mode 5 for the primary drive, and DMA Mode 2 for the secondary. I have no idea what the difference is between 5 and 2.)



KeyserSoze

DMA modes explained

DMA mode 5, should be any non-maxtor/sata drive made recently. DMA mode 2 typically will be your optical devices. Your 120 GB drive should be DMA 5, while your 40GB drive may run at DMA 2 or 4. Check to see if your 40GB is a Ultra ATA/33(DMA 2) or ATA 66(DMA 4).

Slow response times tends in my experience something wrong with the hard drive. You can run HDTach to see what kind of read speeds you are getting off both Hard Drives. I had an issue running on my Abit AV8s onboard SATA ports. I had the SATA raid device off, and running my SATA drive as a straight SATA drive. I noticed the performance was very sluggish, so I ran HDTach. The results came back as burst read rates of 3-4MBs per second. Off a Raptop I knew this was completely absurb. I installed the SATA raid drives, and enabled the SATA raid controller. Afterwards burst rates when to around 120-130 I believe. System response was much snappier.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: TGS

Originally posted by: KeyserSoze

Originally posted by: rdubbz420
Boot to your dell drivers/diagnostic CD and run the test. That is all.

I got three CD's here:
Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistance for PowerEdge SC Systems
Dell Product Documentation -- Supports the Dell PowerEdge 400SC Systems
Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistant

None of them say anything about a diagnostics. I'll check each CD individually.

Thanks people, and keep the suggestions coming.

(And to the above advice, the controllers ARE in DMA Mode. DMA Mode 5 for the primary drive, and DMA Mode 2 for the secondary. I have no idea what the difference is between 5 and 2.)



KeyserSoze

DMA modes explained

DMA mode 5, should be any non-maxtor/sata drive made recently. DMA mode 2 typically will be your optical devices. Your 120 GB drive should be DMA 5, while your 40GB drive may run at DMA 2 or 4. Check to see if your 40GB is a Ultra ATA/33(DMA 2) or ATA 66(DMA 4).

Slow response times tends in my experience something wrong with the hard drive. You can run HDTach to see what kind of read speeds you are getting off both Hard Drives. I had an issue running on my Abit AV8s onboard SATA ports. I had the SATA raid device off, and running my SATA drive as a straight SATA drive. I noticed the performance was very sluggish, so I ran HDTach. The results came back as burst read rates of 3-4MBs per second. Off a Raptop I knew this was completely absurb. I installed the SATA raid drives, and enabled the SATA raid controller. Afterwards burst rates when to around 120-130 I believe. System response was much snappier.

Alright, thanks for the good info! I ran HDTach, and got between 45-54 mb/s reading on both drives. It seemed about right, when it pulled up the other data it had in for other drives. I can't see how to change my DMA on the secondary drive.

Still reading....



KeyserSoze

 

[TGS]

If either drive is actually running at DMA 2, make sure it has an 80-pin cable as that will be the limiting factor from hitting DMA-4 and 5.

Do you know which drive is on which channel, and of which DMA mode each drive is running at?

 

[boomerang]

How full is the Hard Drive?

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: boomerang
How full is the Hard Drive?

The Primary still has about half the space free. (~20 gigs, give or take.) It's been going on for a while, even when the secondary had well over 60-70 gigs free.





KeyserSoze

 

[Phoenix86]

People, It HAS to be hardware at this point.

Heh, whenever I see the OP say "it has to be X,Y, Z!", in a post where they are asking for help they are almost always wrong.

First off when TSing hardware you tend to want to step away from the OS, mostly to exclude it. What I'd do is download the Ultimate Boot CD. Basic version is OK. There are a variety of hardware testing tools on the disk such as memtest86+, some CPU burn in tools, HDD error checking, etc.

OK, that's fine and dandy, but I doubt you're having hardware issues. "My system is slow" is *rarely* a hardware problem.

So, back to basic TSing.
When did this start?
What's happening? What does "My computer is slow." exactlly mean? Slow where/how?
What changed from the time it was working until it started "going slow"?
HDD full? Fragmented?

Got a second HDD laying around? Load a fresh OS on that disk and see if the slowness is still there. If it is, perhaps it is a HW problem. However, my SOP is to exclude software before you start replacing hardware. To that end, I always re-format unless I strongly suspect hardware, which I don't based on what your saying.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

People, It HAS to be hardware at this point.

Heh, whenever I see the OP say "it has to be X,Y, Z!", in a post where they are asking for help they are almost always wrong.

First off when TSing hardware you tend to want to step away from the OS, mostly to exclude it. What I'd do is download the Ultimate Boot CD. Basic version is OK. There are a variety of hardware testing tools on the disk such as memtest86+, some CPU burn in tools, HDD error checking, etc.

OK, that's fine and dandy, but I doubt you're having hardware issues. "My system is slow" is *rarely* a hardware problem.

So, back to basic TSing.
When did this start?
What's happening? What does "My computer is slow." exactlly mean? Slow where/how?
What changed from the time it was working until it started "going slow"?
HDD full? Fragmented?

Got a second HDD laying around? Load a fresh OS on that disk and see if the slowness is still there. If it is, perhaps it is a HW problem. However, my SOP is to exclude software before you start replacing hardware. To that end, I always re-format unless I strongly suspect hardware, which I don't based on what your saying.

Alright, here we go:
The system has always been a little bit slow. Slower than it should be for a system with these specs. I got it last November on some deal, and from there, it's never been that fast! Never had it bogged down with programs running, I like my system to be clean. It did speed up a little after I stopped using on board video, and used an old card I had lying around.

"Slow" -- Sometimes, clicking on the Start Menu will take a few seconds. And not after I've been away from the system for a while, just working on it, or opening folders, it just takes a little longer than it should, opening smaller files takes too long, etc

And trust me, my system is running very clean, with very few programs running at any time. I only expect it to start slowing down if I open up some video encoding or editing app. Other than that, it stays pretty light.

It just seems like it's getting worse, and even friends on my computer comment that their systems run a lot faster, with slower machines.

Make no mistake about it, I'm not complaining about not getting the fastest computer in the world. There is definitely something wrong on it, and I don't know what else to try.

The spare HDD, yeah, I have one lying around at home. I'll try it out.

Thanx again ladies, and keep the suggestions coming. I can format this weekend, and will if there's no other fixes or ideas.





KeyserSoze

 

[mechBgon]

To start with, on general hardware ideas:

1) dual-channel DDR400, right? Not single channel, not slower?

2) why is HT disabled?

3) CPU getting good cooling? Not throttling on you?

4) from the presence of Peerguardian, I have to assume you're doing some kind of P2P. What antivirus software do you use, and do you have it scanning within compressed files and etc? Because if the system's dropping everything to scan the guts of some big file that just finished arriving, that would explain pauses and hitches.

5) peel off all the Dell logos/stickers and see if the system speeds up :evil:

6) yank out the LeadTek as a fact-finding step, ditto for any other PCI cards you might have in there.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
To start with, on general hardware ideas:

1) dual-channel DDR400, right? Not single channel, not slower?

2) why is HT disabled?

3) CPU getting good cooling? Not throttling on you?

4) from the presence of Peerguardian, I have to assume you're doing some kind of P2P. What antivirus software do you use, and do you have it scanning within compressed files and etc? Because if the system's dropping everything to scan the guts of some big file that just finished arriving, that would explain pauses and hitches.

5) peel off all the Dell logos/stickers and see if the system speeds up :evil:

6) yank out the LeadTek as a fact-finding step, ditto for any other PCI cards you might have in there.

1) Not sure, will check on that. (What kind of nerd am I, right? I don't even know my system, haha.)

2) HT is disabled actually, because when I first got my system, I was even complaining about speeds back then. At some of the forums listed above, people suggested disabling it to try to troubleshoot. I read something about how it might cause some overhead, not really sure actually.

3) All temps look fine, used a few different programs, and they all say "within range". And this was a prebuilt Dell System, I haven't touched that part of the system at all.

4) I sometimes use DC++, but not really. I don't do P2P too much. PeerGuardian is enabled at startup, and was in the systray when I started the post, so I mentioned it. I have AVG, but do not keep it actively open. I run a scan about once a week, and did that two days ago, with nothing.

5) Heh.

6) Will do.


Thanks for the suggestions. If some lurker is reading this, go ahead....come on in...and suggest something. I'll try it all.

I love the collective brains we have here, different people all suggesting different angles and approaches. Good sh!t!!!



KeyserSoze

 

[Bozo]

Make sure the jumpers on all the hardware are set right. Having two masters or slaves on the same cable can do weird things.
Check to make sure your 80 conductor cable is installed correctly. Blue connector to MB; Grey to slave device; Black to master device.
Are your cables top quality?
Is your power supply up to snuf?
Why is HT disabled???
Is the onboard video disabled...for sure? Check in the BIOS or manual for a jumper.
If you are running any Norton (Symantec) software, remove it.

Bozo

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: Bozo
Make sure the jumpers on all the hardware are set right. Having two masters or slaves on the same cable can do weird things.
Check to make sure your 80 conductor cable is installed correctly. Blue connector to MB; Grey to slave device; Black to master device.
Are your cables top quality?
Is your power supply up to snuf?
Why is HT disabled???
Is the onboard video disabled...for sure? Check in the BIOS or manual for a jumper.
If you are running any Norton (Symantec) software, remove it.

Bozo

Thank you. Will check all of those when I get home!!! I'll crack that bad boy up, and check the jumpers. Would I know by know if there was some sort of conflict with the jumpers tho?




KeyserSoze

 

[boomerang]

Go to System Properties > Advanced Tab >Advanced Tab again and tell us what's checked under Processor Scheduling.

Likewise for Memory Usage.

Both should have Programs checked.

Here's the key boys;

Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistance for PowerEdge SC Systems
Dell Product Documentation -- Supports the Dell PowerEdge 400SC Systems
Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistant

What OS is this running? Edit: Duh, XP it's in your topic title.

If this was in use as a Server, it's probably configured as a Server.

Ooooh, maybe I'll get a cookie.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: boomerang
Go to System Properties > Advanced Tab >Advanced Tab again and tell us what's checked under Processor Scheduling.

Likewise for Memory Usage.

Both should have Programs checked.

Here's the key boys;

Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistance for PowerEdge SC Systems
Dell Product Documentation -- Supports the Dell PowerEdge 400SC Systems
Dell OpenManage -- Server Assistant

What OS is this running?

If this was in use as a Server, it's probably configured as a Server.

Ooooh, maybe I'll get a cookie.

I'll have to go home, and report back.

If you help me fix it, you will be my new best friend. It has it's perks.


Once again, I thank everyone for input and suggestions. When I get home, I'll try everything reccommended.



KeyserSoze

 

[Raduque]

Defrag?

 

[Woody419]

See if this link works, if not go to Dell Support and download new drivers and the Dell Diagnostic utility
Dell Downloads

A slow system could mean you have a bad hd. Download and run the diagnostic from both of the manufacturer's of your hd's. (not the same as the Dell Diagnostic utility)

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: Woody419
See if this link works, if not go to Dell Support and download new drivers and the Dell Diagnostic utility
Dell Downloads

A slow system could mean you have a bad hd. Download and run the diagnostic from both of the manufacturer's of your hd's. (not the same as the Dell Diagnostic utility)

Raduque, Yes, just did a defrag earlier this week on both drives.

To Woody419, thank you. I will try that as well. I won't have time now to do all of these reccomendations until the weekend, but I thank and welcome all suggestions. I will report back any findings or improvements.




KeyserSoze

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: KeyserSoze
I'm not sure, it might be an OS issue.

My computer is slow. I mean craptastically, unbelievably, slow. I'm reaching my breaking point, where I just want to sit and cry.

Here are the specs, it's a Dell 400SC
P4, 2.8 (With HT disabled)
512 DDR
Some Nvidia GeForce 2 MX (I'm Not a Gamer)
CD-RW Drive AND a DVD-RW Drive (Two seperate Drives)
LeadTek Winfast TV Tuner
40 Gig (Came with the system)
160 Seagate
WinXP Pro

People, It HAS to be hardware at this point.

Symptoms:
Clicking on menu's is sometimes slow, or non-responsive for a few seconds.
Programs take a long time to load. (Small programs as well, like WinAmp.)
Copying/pasting takes too long from one drive to another
The entire machine is just sluggish.

What I do know:
--No Spyware threats at all, my machine is hundred percent clean from multiple programs run in Safe Mode.
--All drivers for hardware have been updated as of a week ago
--VERY few programs remain running the machine, and they are very small, non-resource intensive programs. (Kerio Personal FW, AIM, and PeerGuardian.) Even with these running, the system is still sluggish.

I have searched the web, and even the forums here.

I have no problems reinstalling Windows this weekend, but would like to know if there are any programs that can help identify hardware issues first. Not just benchmarking software, but programs that can maybe identify any bottlenecks on the system. I am willing to pay a little for some good programs if necessary.

Thanks in Advance Anandtech.





KeyserSoze

i installed AVG onto my father's pc because he was having symptoms similar to yours, turns out he had 29 trojans running.

try it see what you find

 

[mechBgon]

Something else you might check, is go into the mobo's BIOS and check whether the onboard ATA controllers have been deliberately set to ATA/33 mode instead of full ATA/100 or ATA/133 capabilities. Although if the 40GB drive is the one that the system came with, you'd hope Dell would set it to the faster protocol

If you want to scan with something stronger than AVG, try Kaspersky's web-based scanner here overnight (overnight because it takes a while).

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Something else you might check, is go into the mobo's BIOS and check whether the onboard ATA controllers have been deliberately set to ATA/33 mode instead of full ATA/100 or ATA/133 capabilities. Although if the 40GB drive is the one that the system came with, you'd hope Dell would set it to the faster protocol

If you want to scan with something stronger than AVG, try Kaspersky's web-based scanner here overnight (overnight because it takes a while).

Quick question, since you reminded me of it. When I was in the BIOS, I saw an option for UDMA. What do I want with that one?

And yeah, I'll try that web based scanner and/or other virus avenues as the last replies have suggested.



KS

 

[mechBgon]

What options do they offer you on the UDMA setting? If it's a "ceiling"-type setting, then set it as high as possible. If it has an AUTO option, try that. My employer has a Dell server and I smacked an ATA drive into it as a holding tank, and what do you know, it would not get out of PIO mode (which is like driving your car with flat tires).

Lo and behold, I went into the BIOS and they had capped it at ATA/33 protocol :roll: Geniuses. All part of my Reality+ training, I guess...

If you expand the IDE/ATA Controllers in Windows Device Manager, and open the Primary and Secondary ATA Controller listings, and hit the Advanced tab, that would show if the drives were in PIO mode or in a UDMA mode. You would want to see at least UltraDMA 5 there.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
What options do they offer you on the UDMA setting? If it's a "ceiling"-type setting, then set it as high as possible. If it has an AUTO option, try that. My employer has a Dell server and I smacked an ATA drive into it as a holding tank, and what do you know, it would not get out of PIO mode (which is like driving your car with flat tires).

Lo and behold, I went into the BIOS and they had capped it at ATA/33 protocol :roll: Geniuses. All part of my Reality+ training, I guess...

If you expand the IDE/ATA Controllers in Windows Device Manager, and open the Primary and Secondary ATA Controller listings, and hit the Advanced tab, that would show if the drives were in PIO mode or in a UDMA mode. You would want to see at least UltraDMA 5 there.

As stated above, my primary drive is 5, but my secondary drive is 2. I didn't see an option there listed to change it. I'll check around in the BIOS and see what other issues I'm having. Could it also be a problem with my controller drivers perhaps???

Thanks for the replies.



KeyserSoze