What's scarier than Hussein?

[tec699]

Link a Dink

The United States Department of Justice!!

It looks like our rights are slowly eroding away, thanks to our President.

Among other things, it would prohibit disclosure of information regarding people detained as terrorist suspects and prevent the Environmental Protection Agency (news - web sites) from distributing "worst-case scenario" information to the public about a nearby private company's use of chemicals.

Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee (news - web sites), said the legislation "turns the Bill of Rights completely on its head. This draft bill constitutes yet another egregious blow to our citizens' civil liberties," Conyers said. "Among other things, the Bush administration now wants to imprison suspects before they are tried and create DNA databases of lawful residents who have committed no crime."

Welcome the New World Order, GWB-style. Not only are we the world's policeman, we are now the world's judge, jury and jailer, starting with being able to deport a US citizen if the DoJ feels they helped a terrorist cause.

I'm actually starting to become quite scared of this Administration.

 

[VBboy]

Why don't they just put a policeman in my home to watch where I surf online and bend me over when I _accidently_ go to a pr0n site or something that mentions weapons, terrorism, or GWB himself.

Well, off I go to visit some sex site whose names I cannot mention without being banned from Anandtech

 

[tec699]

I know that these are scary times and the government has to do what they need to do to protect us, but...

If the government thinks that they are protecting by screening our calls and monitoring what we view on our computers then they can F*%# themselves. And you know what... most Americans will go for this because we will let the government do what ever they want to us.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Repost - - PAII

 

[feralkid]

It's time to say goodbye to the things of our youth...Freedom, liberty, justice, due process, inalienable rights...


What kind of nation would allow this to happen?


Where are all the Real Patriots when we need them?



:frown:

 

[novon]

I'm up for a second revolution to win freedom when you guys are.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: tec699
I know that these are scary times and the government has to do what they need to do to protect us, but...

If the government thinks that they are protecting by screening our calls and monitoring what we view on our computers then they can F*%# themselves. And you know what... most Americans will go for this because we will let the government do what ever they want to us.

Hey, what do you have to hid? If you have nothing to hid, then you don't need freedom...hahahahahahahaha........

Sorry, that's the typical response I've gotten.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: feralkid
It's time to say goodbye to the things of our youth...Freedom, liberty, justice, due process, inalienable rights...


What kind of nation would allow this to happen?


Where are all the Real Patriots when we need them?



:frown:

They're all living in Canada

 

[Tominator]

We indeed should be worried.

We can only blame ourselves as we've nearly made it impossible to protect our own borders. Public opinion has made this impossible. You are called racists if you think we should deport all illegal aliens...and we should! Enough of amnesty. Put our armed forces at the borders and mine most of it!

If a certain group of people is watched because of their heritage, we get federal lawsuits from the ACLU to stop the Feds from watching them. The court system has become a joke. Justice has been reserved for those with influence and money or enough of a high profile to give a lawyer a name for himself.

If you think that any administration would be doing anything differently, you are just fooling yourself.

There have been a whole lot of plots already broken and hundreds of arrest made worldwide and this only happened by the broadening of the powers you seem to want to deny.

Freedom takes sacrifice, and I see just too many who do not want to sacrifice anything.

We need to ask ourselves just how safe do we want to be?

How many nore Sept 11s will you allow? How many cities made unlivable by a 'dirty bomb' or bilogical weapons? How many millions of your fellow citizens dead before you 'allow' reasonable measures to be taken?

I for one will admit I cannot answer those questions.

Blaming the President, whoever it might be, will do nothing to alleviate the situation.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: feralkid
It's time to say goodbye to the things of our youth...Freedom, liberty, justice, due process, inalienable rights...


What kind of nation would allow this to happen?


Where are all the Real Patriots when we need them?



:frown:

They're all living in Canada

The U.S. took over Canada now? When did this happen?

 

[jteef]

see, the way it works is...it might pass, if it does, the police use it, and the accused fight it in court. At which point, if it is an "illegal" law the court rules it so.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: Tominator
We indeed should be worried.

We can only blame ourselves as we've nearly made it impossible to protect our own borders. Public opinion has made this impossible. You are called racists if you think we should deport all illegal aliens...and we should! Enough of amnesty. Put our armed forces at the borders and mine most of it!

If a certain group of people is watched because of their heritage, we get federal lawsuits from the ACLU to stop the Feds from watching them. The court system has become a joke. Justice has been reserved for those with influence and money or enough of a high profile to give a lawyer a name for himself.

If you think that any administration would be doing anything differently, you are just fooling yourself.

There have been a whole lot of plots already broken and hundreds of arrest made worldwide and this only happened by the broadening of the powers you seem to want to deny.

Freedom takes sacrifice, and I see just too many who do not want to sacrifice anything.

We need to ask ourselves just how safe do we want to be?

How many nore Sept 11s will you allow? How many cities made unlivable by a 'dirty bomb' or bilogical weapons? How many millions of your fellow citizens dead before you 'allow' reasonable measures to be taken?

I for one will admit I cannot answer those questions.

Blaming the President, whoever it might be, will do nothing to alleviate the situation.

I definitely disagree with this Tominator...

You know I find that white America screams about illegal immigration because oh let me see.... Europeans don't immigrate to America anymore. The immigrants that come to America consist of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Hatians, Muslims, Cubans, Africans, Chinese, Indians (from India) etc... They don't resemble the immigrants of the early 1900's and this scares white America. We'll guess what... White America is in for some pretty big changes as these groups (especially the Puerto Ricans and Mexicans) multiply and gain power. It's going to happen. If I'm not mistaken, caucasians having babies in America has steadily dropped over the last ten years.

It also amazes me that white America complains that jobs are being taken by illegal immigrants. But oh lets see... How many white Americas's to want to clean toilets, pick apples on a farm and scrub floors? We'll these jobs are being fullfilled by legal and illegal immigrants because we feel that were above that type of work. I work midnight security and there are 4 Mexiacns who clean the mall. Yes, 3 are illegal and the only one that can speak fluent english is the legal immigrant. But these people are hard workers and are so trusting. All 4 work two jobs and send the money back home.

America was built by illegal and legal immigrants. Thats what makes us so great.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Tominator
We indeed should be worried.

We can only blame ourselves as we've nearly made it impossible to protect our own borders. Public opinion has made this impossible. You are called racists if you think we should deport all illegal aliens...and we should! Enough of amnesty. Put our armed forces at the borders and mine most of it!

If a certain group of people is watched because of their heritage, we get federal lawsuits from the ACLU to stop the Feds from watching them. The court system has become a joke. Justice has been reserved for those with influence and money or enough of a high profile to give a lawyer a name for himself.

If you think that any administration would be doing anything differently, you are just fooling yourself.

There have been a whole lot of plots already broken and hundreds of arrest made worldwide and this only happened by the broadening of the powers you seem to want to deny.

Freedom takes sacrifice, and I see just too many who do not want to sacrifice anything.

We need to ask ourselves just how safe do we want to be?

How many nore Sept 11s will you allow? How many cities made unlivable by a 'dirty bomb' or bilogical weapons? How many millions of your fellow citizens dead before you 'allow' reasonable measures to be taken?

I for one will admit I cannot answer those questions.

Blaming the President, whoever it might be, will do nothing to alleviate the situation.

Right on! Even Bush said it himself... "There ought to be limits to freedom".

 

[dahunan]

http://movieweb.com/movie/enemystate/

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: dahunan
http://movieweb.com/movie/enemystate/

LINKY!

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Tominator
We indeed should be worried.

We can only blame ourselves as we've nearly made it impossible to protect our own borders. Public opinion has made this impossible. You are called racists if you think we should deport all illegal aliens...and we should! Enough of amnesty. Put our armed forces at the borders and mine most of it!

If a certain group of people is watched because of their heritage, we get federal lawsuits from the ACLU to stop the Feds from watching them. The court system has become a joke. Justice has been reserved for those with influence and money or enough of a high profile to give a lawyer a name for himself.

If you think that any administration would be doing anything differently, you are just fooling yourself.

There have been a whole lot of plots already broken and hundreds of arrest made worldwide and this only happened by the broadening of the powers you seem to want to deny.

Freedom takes sacrifice, and I see just too many who do not want to sacrifice anything.

We need to ask ourselves just how safe do we want to be?

How many nore Sept 11s will you allow? How many cities made unlivable by a 'dirty bomb' or bilogical weapons? How many millions of your fellow citizens dead before you 'allow' reasonable measures to be taken?

I for one will admit I cannot answer those questions.

Blaming the President, whoever it might be, will do nothing to alleviate the situation.

Right on! Even Bush said it himself... "There ought to be limits to freedom".

There are limits to freedom...to live your life as you choose so long as you respect the life, liberty and property of others. These are where the concept of modern liberty come from, John Locke and written into the DoI. This means that you do not have the right to use violent means to achieve your ends. The non-aggression axiom.

 

[RobCur]

Originally posted by: novon
I'm up for a second revolution to win freedom when you guys are.

 

[Double Trouble]

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security". I've seen this statement attributed to Ben Franklin, Voltaire as well as a couple of other authors. No matter who came up with it, it rings more true now than ever before. In our panic after a major disaster like 911, we seem willing to give up essential liberties and freedoms to try and prevent another such event. It's a very difficult line to walk to balance liberty versus security in todays electronic society, but it looks to me as though we're erring on the side of giving up too many liberties and freedom for the promises of increased security. If we keep heading down this road, what "freedom" will we be fighting to protect??

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: tagej
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security". I've seen this statement attributed to Ben Franklin, Voltaire as well as a couple of other authors. No matter who came up with it, it rings more true now than ever before. In our panic after a major disaster like 911, we seem willing to give up essential liberties and freedoms to try and prevent another such event. It's a very difficult line to walk to balance liberty versus security in todays electronic society, but it looks to me as though we're erring on the side of giving up too many liberties and freedom for the promises of increased security. If we keep heading down this road, what "freedom" will we be fighting to protect??

The quote was from Franklin. Here are some more that may apply:

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted
with the government of himself. Can he, then, be
trusted with the government of others?"
--- Thomas Jefferson

"I hold that a little rebellion now and then is a
good thing."
--- Thomas Jefferson

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be
purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"
--- Patrick Henry

"Qui tacet consentit."
(He who is silent consents.)
--- Roman aphorism

"There is no odor so bad as that
which rises from goodness tainted."
--- Henry D. Thoreau

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the
right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort,
to protect themselves against tyranny in
government." --- Thomas Jefferson

"In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
In matters of taste, swim with the current."
--- Thomas Jefferson

"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their
rights become prey to the active. The condition
upon which god has given liberty to man is eternal
vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude
is at once the consequence of his crime and the
punishment of his guilt."
--- John Philpot Curran 1790


"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but
downright force. Whenever you give up that force,
you are inevitably ruined."
--- Patrick Henry

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Tominator
We indeed should be worried.

We can only blame ourselves as we've nearly made it impossible to protect our own borders. Public opinion has made this impossible. You are called racists if you think we should deport all illegal aliens...and we should! Enough of amnesty. Put our armed forces at the borders and mine most of it!

If a certain group of people is watched because of their heritage, we get federal lawsuits from the ACLU to stop the Feds from watching them. The court system has become a joke. Justice has been reserved for those with influence and money or enough of a high profile to give a lawyer a name for himself.

If you think that any administration would be doing anything differently, you are just fooling yourself.

There have been a whole lot of plots already broken and hundreds of arrest made worldwide and this only happened by the broadening of the powers you seem to want to deny.

Freedom takes sacrifice, and I see just too many who do not want to sacrifice anything.

We need to ask ourselves just how safe do we want to be?

How many nore Sept 11s will you allow? How many cities made unlivable by a 'dirty bomb' or bilogical weapons? How many millions of your fellow citizens dead before you 'allow' reasonable measures to be taken?

I for one will admit I cannot answer those questions.

Blaming the President, whoever it might be, will do nothing to alleviate the situation.

I'm sure that those are the same things that Saddam Hussein tells his people. :disgust:

I, for one, would rather die free than live as a coward. You don't sacrifice freedom to protect it, you pussy chicken-little'd moron. :|

 

[Tominator]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tominator
We indeed should be worried.

We can only blame ourselves as we've nearly made it impossible to protect our own borders. Public opinion has made this impossible. You are called racists if you think we should deport all illegal aliens...and we should! Enough of amnesty. Put our armed forces at the borders and mine most of it!

If a certain group of people is watched because of their heritage, we get federal lawsuits from the ACLU to stop the Feds from watching them. The court system has become a joke. Justice has been reserved for those with influence and money or enough of a high profile to give a lawyer a name for himself.

If you think that any administration would be doing anything differently, you are just fooling yourself.

There have been a whole lot of plots already broken and hundreds of arrest made worldwide and this only happened by the broadening of the powers you seem to want to deny.

Freedom takes sacrifice, and I see just too many who do not want to sacrifice anything.

We need to ask ourselves just how safe do we want to be?

How many nore Sept 11s will you allow? How many cities made unlivable by a 'dirty bomb' or bilogical weapons? How many millions of your fellow citizens dead before you 'allow' reasonable measures to be taken?

I for one will admit I cannot answer those questions.

Blaming the President, whoever it might be, will do nothing to alleviate the situation.

I'm sure that those are the same things that Saddam Hussein tells his people. :disgust:

I, for one, would rather die free than live as a coward. You don't sacrifice freedom to protect it, you pussy chicken-little'd moron. :|

You are probably not old enough to pull your own pants up yet, let alone old enough to understand that there is no freedom as you pretend it is. I might add you should only use words you understand as your grasp on reality seems to be fading.

tec699

Your insinuations are racist. Because I am white, you have say that it is the predominate reason I'm against illegal immigration.

I have no problem at all with legal immigration and think it should be easier for folks that want to become a US citizen to do so. Some on this forum have professed major problems in this regard. Just over 100 years ago, my own family paid their way to these shores....with nothing.

I have people of Puerto Rican descent in my family. Btw, the people of Puerto Rico are already US Citizens. I also have some of Spanish American descent. They prefer to be thought of that way rather than the current influx of leaches although they are from Mexico. Their words, not mine.

There are limits to freedom...to live your life as you choose so long as you respect the life, liberty and property of others. These are where the concept of modern liberty come from, John Locke and written into the DoI. This means that you do not have the right to use violent means to achieve your ends. The non-aggression axiom.

We, in the US, have lived a blessed life. One that has become envied by some. Because of our kindness and freedoms we are now set upon by the evil of a few and that few seeks to deny us most of what has made us what we are. The US ALWAYS tries damn near everything before violence. John Lock is an idiot. If our Founding Fathers had thought like him, we'd still be a colony. That is, enslaved!

Throughout this great nation's history, freedoms have been put aside in times of war, famine and natural disasters. I happen to trust John Ashcroft and George Bush. I would say the same about Al Gore and XXX if that is the way this had turned out. I would be circumspec and full of questions, but would not have made the continious onslaught of accusations an inuendos continually voiced by the young bastards on this forum who have NEVER even provided for themselves or served the US in any way except to take advantage of generous loans and grants and THEN taught by socialists morons who don't have a clue about what made this country what it is.

The times are not easy. Our freedoms have been compromised. There is a cause and only those blinded by there own self importance will deny this. Some things MUST be trusted to others and sometimes that means our beloved freedoms. These are brave men. They have sacrificed an easy life for one that includes no freedom for themselves. Would YOU want to be in their shoes? Make the life and death decisions on a daily basis that may or may not doom yourself and others? I belive with all my soul that this nation can and will survive, but not without a vigorious program that leads to the destruction of those that would destry us and most of the world had they the means.

Oh, some reference has been made to Jesus Christ and him leading the peaceniks. His kingdom is not of this world. Neither is mine.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I for one want the liberty so many died for. I want it for my children. I will risk their absolute safety for that purpose. I would rather then risk dying young and free than old, safe, and under the watchful eye of Big Brother. No, this has gone to far. There are enemies foreign and domestic. Both are becoming plain.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I for one want the liberty so many died for. I want it for my children. I will risk their absolute safety for that purpose. I would rather then risk dying young and free than old, safe, and under the watchful eye of Big Brother. No, this has gone to far. There are enemies foreign and domestic. Both are becoming plain.

Better look out around these parts, they'll burn you at the stake.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Tominator
You are probably not old enough to pull your own pants up yet, let alone old enough to understand that there is no freedom as you pretend it is. I might add you should only use words you understand as your grasp on reality seems to be fading.

I'm in my 30's, TYVM. edit: btw, most people consider using age-based insults on the internet against a person, when you in fact have no idea of that person's age, to be the same as invoking Gibson's Law.
My grasp on reality is not fading, yours is. Better look out man, the boogeyman comin' to get ya. We better mortgage the liberty of every American right now, that'll solve it won't it?

The ONLY people who are compromising American freedoms are GW, Ashcroft, and their followers like you. These terrorists, while they may be able to physical harm to a few of us, pose a far less threat to American freedom and sovereignty than do its enemies from inside.

 

[Tominator]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tominator
You are probably not old enough to pull your own pants up yet, let alone old enough to understand that there is no freedom as you pretend it is. I might add you should only use words you understand as your grasp on reality seems to be fading.

I'm in my 30's, TYVM.
My grasp on reality is not fading, yours is. Better look out man, the boogeyman comin' to get ya. We better mortgage the liberty of every American right now, that'll solve it won't it?

The ONLY people who are compromising American freedoms are GW, Ashcroft, and their followers like you. These terrorists, while they may be able to physical harm a few of us, pose a far less threat to American freedom and sovereignty than do its enemies from inside.

You are the one playing the Chicken Little game. There is no 'bogey man.' If 'they' harm a few, they harm me.