Here's the deal.I'm looking to build a new pc but i need to know what is more important.I'll be using this pc to unrar a bunch of files along with converting them.Right now when doing those things my pc runs really slow.I got a AMD Xp1700 along with 2x256 Curcail stick PC2100 & 2 WD 80GB hard drives.I also wanna be able to like browse the web or do other things at the same time.Most of the time i like ti unrar files from one hd to another to speed things up.Anyway what i need to know is whats the most important thing to look for first.When unraring files i think that uses more of the pc then my cpu.
Whats Needed More - Fast CPU/Fast HD or Fast Ram (Building New Rig) $600 Budget
- Thread starter NDENT
- Start date
the biggest factor in your case will be the amount of memory.
since you want to multitask, and rar / unrar, your going to need lots of memory capacity. Pure processing power wouldn't hurt either.
the lowest priced athlon 64 / VIA based board combo would probably benefit you the most. and probably a minimum of 1GB memory.
since you want to multitask, and rar / unrar, your going to need lots of memory capacity. Pure processing power wouldn't hurt either.
the lowest priced athlon 64 / VIA based board combo would probably benefit you the most. and probably a minimum of 1GB memory.
What are some good brands of rams to look for ? I don't wanna pay a arm & a leg now.2x512 sticks of some pc3200 should be good correct.I'll not be overclocking this new rig btw.No game playing either.
The slowest component in this operation is the harddrive. Go for the fastest drive you can get. memory speed is negligible in this context as its not a high memory intensive action. Its mostly reading and writing to and from the harddrive.
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding! Your pc will run as fast as only your slowest component. And in a task taht is heavily disk intensive, that will easily be what holds you back.
I would view it at HDD, and then CPU~ If you went SCSI you'd love the preformance increase
Tho i'm having trouble what you are going to do with a dedciated pc soley for unraring
I'm curious~ what will it be doing b/c that seems to be putting down a lot of cash for a single task
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,570
- 10,204
- 126
I'm going to have to chime in and say "CPU" here, since I've basically been doing exactly that the last few days, and I have a similar system.
Sure, more RAM definately helps (especially if you are using QuickPAR to re-construct missing file chunks of a decent size), as does HD speed, but even with an AMD XP2000+, 768MB of DDR333, and seperate ATA-100 HDs, I find that I'm pinned at 100% CPU during the operation, and I'm still using the HD with other background programs going (downloading, etc).
With no WinRAR operation running, I average about 10-15% CPU usage (due to other background tasks). With WinRAR doing a 'test' operation on a multi-part multi-GB archive with no compression, I hit around 40-50% CPU usage. With an archive with compression, I pin at 100% CPU.
So judging by those numbers, I probably wouldn't be disk-limited until I had nearly a 3Ghz CPU, since mine is running at ~1.67Ghz real clock speed, and compression depends more on integer clocks than anything else, which is why the PIV excels at the task, and likewise media-encoding/decoding.
So for that specific application, I would actually recommend a P4 with HT and dual-channel memory, using a pair of 512MB DIMMs.
Sure, more RAM definately helps (especially if you are using QuickPAR to re-construct missing file chunks of a decent size), as does HD speed, but even with an AMD XP2000+, 768MB of DDR333, and seperate ATA-100 HDs, I find that I'm pinned at 100% CPU during the operation, and I'm still using the HD with other background programs going (downloading, etc).
With no WinRAR operation running, I average about 10-15% CPU usage (due to other background tasks). With WinRAR doing a 'test' operation on a multi-part multi-GB archive with no compression, I hit around 40-50% CPU usage. With an archive with compression, I pin at 100% CPU.
So judging by those numbers, I probably wouldn't be disk-limited until I had nearly a 3Ghz CPU, since mine is running at ~1.67Ghz real clock speed, and compression depends more on integer clocks than anything else, which is why the PIV excels at the task, and likewise media-encoding/decoding.
So for that specific application, I would actually recommend a P4 with HT and dual-channel memory, using a pair of 512MB DIMMs.
You'll need a combination of all three components to get the expected results.
IMO, get the following hardware in the order of priority below:
CPU: Intel CPUs are best for the tasks you outlined, but AMD 64's arent far behind. You'll need to start with the Intel 3 Ghz Northwood or an A64 3000. Get the fastest CPU you can afford and stick with it, because this part cant really be upgraded in the future without a significant $$$ hit.
RAM: 512 MB of PC 3200 (2 sticks of 256 MB each). Buy Kingston/Crucial even if you buy the 'value' chips. You can always add RAM later.
HDD: Get the largest sized 7200 RPM HDD you can afford. You may want to later buy an additional identical drive and build a RAID0 configuration.
IMO, get the following hardware in the order of priority below:
CPU: Intel CPUs are best for the tasks you outlined, but AMD 64's arent far behind. You'll need to start with the Intel 3 Ghz Northwood or an A64 3000. Get the fastest CPU you can afford and stick with it, because this part cant really be upgraded in the future without a significant $$$ hit.
RAM: 512 MB of PC 3200 (2 sticks of 256 MB each). Buy Kingston/Crucial even if you buy the 'value' chips. You can always add RAM later.
HDD: Get the largest sized 7200 RPM HDD you can afford. You may want to later buy an additional identical drive and build a RAID0 configuration.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
I would have to somewhat disagree with this.
Web browsing is dominated by AMD: Mozilla Performance
On the same page you can see AMD also dominates in WinRAR performance (both extracting and compressing). Hyper-threading isnt going to help much here since web browser performance isnt task intensive as it is mostly limited by your internet connection. So WinRAR performance is what we need to maximize => A64. (Note: A64 3200+ dual channel beats A64 3400+ in WinRAR tasks)
Also look here for Multitasking performance for the applications that apply to you: A64 is doing good Hyper-Threading isnt much help here, until Multitask #3 where you are doing a LOT of things at once (which doesnt seem to be the case for you; of course if you are into distributed computing projects and 5 tasks at a time, then p4 HT is the way to go)
Archiving Tasks - Again we see for the most part, compressing using WinRAR and decompressing is largely dominated by A64.
This is what I would get:
Since dual channel benefits archiving tasks and you'd want to have some upgrade path for the cpu, I'd get 939 socket cpu, primarily 90nm; and overclock the hell out of it. But here are some options:
Option 1: No Overclocking - Socket 754
Corsair Value Select (Dual Pack) 184 Pin 512MBx2 DDR PC-3200 - $157
CHAINTECH nForce3 250 Socket 754, "VNF3-250" - $73
Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM - $159 (After mail-in rebate)
AMD Athlon 64 3400+, 512k L2 Cache @2.4 ghz - $225
Total: $614
Problem: Low upgrade path on the dying socket 754
Option 2: No Overclocking - Socket 939
Corsair Value Select (Dual Pack) 184 Pin 512MBx2 DDR PC-3200 - $157
ABIT "AV8" K8T800 Pro Socket 939 = $113
Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM - $159 (After mail-in rebate)
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 512K 90nm (939) - $150
Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu - $31 - you can get cheap thermal paste at the same place or you can get a cheap $10 cooler somewhere else
Total: $610
The decrease in speed is used to finance the future upgrade path in the form of a more expensive socket 939 motherboard. It's up to you if this is worth it. If you upgrade the motherboard and the cpu at the same time and you upgrade once in 2-3 years, it's better to buy socket 754 for you and replace everything at once in 2-3 years like you are doing now.
Last option - For winRAR archiving, dual channel helps a lot where A64 3200+ (939) slightly beats A64 3400+ (754) (refer to Anandtech link I posted). Winrar task is also much dependent on memory (not size of memory, but speed of memory, and latency). Therefore, if you run the memory at the highest speed possible, you'll have a higher performance.
Option 3: Overclocking - Socket 939
ABIT "AV8" K8T800 Pro Socket 939 = $113 - or you can go with MSI Neo2-F for $109
Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM - $159 (After mail-in rebate)
Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu - $31 + $6 AS5
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 512K 90nm (939) - $150
1) Corsair Value Select (Dual Pack) 184 Pin 512MBx2 DDR PC-3200 - $157
Since memory speed and low latency increase performance, you could step up to faster memory like this one:
2) Kingmax TSOP 184-Pin 512MBx2 DDR PC-4000 - $200 This also gives you the option of running at extremely low latency 2-2-2-5 @ 400mhz; so it will be faster than corsair right off the bat and you'll be able to increase memory speed using lower ratios (but for $43 more). If you arent willing to pay extra for higher memory performance when overclocking, Corsair Value will do with higher ratios.
Now say you do get this overclocking result below, you can run different ratios for cpu:ram => 5:4 would mean your memory needs to run at 290/5*4 = 232 (464 effective*8 = PC3700 required). If you run 3:2 ratio, you'll be able to keep the $157 Corsair value as your memory speed will be 194 (and PC3200 runs 200 default)
Overclocking result (using MSI Neo2):
90nm A64 3000+ 1.8ghz @ 4000+ or 2.6ghz
Total Cost: 1) With Corsair Value: $616
2) With Kingmax: $660
Problem: Higher costs with Kingmax, overclocking is never gauranteed.
Since it doenst seem you are struggling for space with those 2 80gb hard drives, I figured going with a larger hard drive isnt going to improve your speed since 7200 hard drives arent that fast. I would rather get the fastest drive there is (besides SCSI) and have it as the primary drive. You can always get another Raptor later and Raid them. The advantage of buying a raptor, is that you'll be able to reuse it later in a new system, unlike the slower 7200 drives which you'll probably leave out. Also 1 gig is beneficial for overall system smoothness in tasks, but wont primarily benefit for winrar archiving.
Sorry for the Extremely long response. Hope this helps though.
By no means am I attempting to start an Intel vs. AMD war here. I was trying to point out that Intel leads when it comes to converting video, which by far is the most time consuming task needed to be performed.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
Let me also stress the importance of a fast hard drive here and why going raid 0 alone wont solve your problems.
I have P4 with Hyper-threading overclocked to 3.06ghz. I also have 80gb Western Digital 8mb cache 7200 rpm hard drive and 8.4mb Samsung 5400rpm hard drive.
I had 45 gb of data stored on my large hard drive. Before reformatting PCMark2002 gave the HDD a miserable 416 points score.
After reformatting the operating system and having installed 13.3gb of the data I need, PCMark02 reports 1228 points or 195% improvement in Hard drive speed.
Sisoftware Sandra gave File System Benchmark score of 28MB/sec. After reformat, 42MB/sec
Test:
WinRAR Archived Office 2003 (size 583MB). Extract that to a Desktop from 8.4mb hard drive onto 80gb WD hard drive. Before reformat, total time = 4min:3seconds
After reformat, total time = 1min 52 seconds
That is a tremendous improvement.
Running Raid 0 isnt' going to stop your operating system from clogging up which is split between the 2 hard drives. Both hard drives will start to become slow over time as the operating system flaws will be there. And no amount of hard drive defragmentation is going to solve the issue of having more and more files clogging up. So best solution for you is to get 1 raptor and have Operating system on it and only main programs; games and all other you should junk keep on the 80gb hard drives. That way your system will be always fast and you can refromat without fear of losing data. Most optimal solution, would involve something like 74 gig raptors in raid 0 AND separate hard drive(s) for storing data. That way you get the benefit of speed for the operating system and ability to reformat at will anytime without losing major data.
I have P4 with Hyper-threading overclocked to 3.06ghz. I also have 80gb Western Digital 8mb cache 7200 rpm hard drive and 8.4mb Samsung 5400rpm hard drive.
I had 45 gb of data stored on my large hard drive. Before reformatting PCMark2002 gave the HDD a miserable 416 points score.
After reformatting the operating system and having installed 13.3gb of the data I need, PCMark02 reports 1228 points or 195% improvement in Hard drive speed.
Sisoftware Sandra gave File System Benchmark score of 28MB/sec. After reformat, 42MB/sec
Test:
WinRAR Archived Office 2003 (size 583MB). Extract that to a Desktop from 8.4mb hard drive onto 80gb WD hard drive. Before reformat, total time = 4min:3seconds
After reformat, total time = 1min 52 seconds
That is a tremendous improvement.
Running Raid 0 isnt' going to stop your operating system from clogging up which is split between the 2 hard drives. Both hard drives will start to become slow over time as the operating system flaws will be there. And no amount of hard drive defragmentation is going to solve the issue of having more and more files clogging up. So best solution for you is to get 1 raptor and have Operating system on it and only main programs; games and all other you should junk keep on the 80gb hard drives. That way your system will be always fast and you can refromat without fear of losing data. Most optimal solution, would involve something like 74 gig raptors in raid 0 AND separate hard drive(s) for storing data. That way you get the benefit of speed for the operating system and ability to reformat at will anytime without losing major data.
I do some quickpar/winrar repairing and extracting on my computer. I'd say harddrive speed is the most important factor. I upgraded from a 2100+ AMD w/512MB memory to a 3.0E P4 w/1GB memory. I never ran out of memory even with the 512MB. With the 2100+, I would hit 100% cpu utilization on both quickpar and winrar. With the P4, I hover around 50% cpu with quickpar repairing files and about 30% cpu with winrar repair files. My order would be harddrives (raid 0 if at all possible, possibly a raptor or 2), cpu (3ghz is probably overkill), then memory (512MB should be all that you need).
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,570
- 10,204
- 126
Interesting. Markedly different scores, on the same hardware? I take it that you probably didn't defrag before running the first set of tests, right? That seems to indicate that those benchmarks are of such high variability to be basically worthless, IMHO.
"Clogging up"? "operating system flaws"? What in the world are you talking about. Obviously the issue is fragmentation here, as the same hardware, the same files, only after a reformat - the only thing that should be different, then, is the level of fragmentation on the drives.
Explain again how RAID-0 benefits the OS partition and pagefile, especially as compared to using them as seperate disks? Oh wait, that's right, it doesn't.
I agree with the general principle of segregating the OS installation onto a seperate drive, if at all possible, or a seperate partition, from your general data storage. That makes sense.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
That is the whole point! I defragged the hard drive multiple times when my hard drives were full of data and it did NOT improve performance. The opearting system is poorly designed or otherwise files would not get fragmented. Furthermore, if the operating system was properly designed, defragmentation would help to improve performance, but it did not. I've read similar views with respect to mine. You'll see that over time your system will begin to feel slow no matter how you look at it due to fragmentation and you can't do anything about it, but to reformat. This is primarily caused by the flaws in the Windows Operating system (or others for that matter). What tells the hard drive where data needs to be stored? The hard drive just has sectors for storage and the operating system must allocate that storage effectively, which it certainly does not.
I never said anything about Raid 0 benefiting the Operating System or Pagefile. You are reading too much between the lines. Since his primary purpose is to transfer files from one hard drive to another, Raid 0 is going to fully benefit this procedure. By having RAID 0 primary hard drive setup for Operating system you get the full benefits of increased transfer rates of the hard drives and by having a separate set of hard drives, you give yourself the choice of reformatting the primary raid 0 setup at will without having to lose data. Raid 0 just benefits transfer rates not the stability of the operating system. So if you dont have money, it's better to just get 2 hard drives (keep 1 of them for the operating system and programs). Of course not everyone has money to buy 4 hard drives, so this is rather unrealistic, but if you do, it's certainly better than having 2 hard drives in raid 0 since you'll be stuck next time you have to reformat.
If you dont believe me that reformatting is required at least several times in a year, you havent experienced the performance boost after reformatting. I have, and I have the need to reformat because I cant stand a slow hard drive. If you have a solution for speeding up a hard drive or keeping its speed constant even after a user keeps increasing the data stored on the device (other than reformatting), please let me know, because I havent heard of anything that solves the issue.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 20K
-
-
-
Facebook
Twitter