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Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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This just in...it's has just been discovered that liberals are also the reason for rainy days, sour milk, all diseases, and, yes, they do eat babies.

Wait...what was that?! I think I just saw one outside stalking an unattended baby carriage!

OMG!!! OH NO! AIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! NOOOOOO!O!OO!O!!!!
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Although it is not universally applicable, I sometimes think that the older generation did too well in providing for their children. Too many spoiled brats.

The selfish generation.

It is MY generations fault.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
1. If somebody had dropped bombs instead of run into buildings and then hide, we'd be a lot more up in arms about it. There's quite a bit of patriotism, but it has very little direction. We can't just look at the rising sun or red-backed swastika.

2. Agreed, in part. Really depends on exactly what you're looking at. We're richer than ever, but also expected ot have more such things.

3. Yes and no. Good people are good people, even if they do struggle to keep track of the kids. My best friends didn't have much, and the worst off of them actually had both parents around for a good portion of his developing years. It seems values in general are going down.

4. Morality has not been replaced by any scientific BS. Parenting overall just went down. I'm not a real believer in any spiritual or non-spiritual stuff. The way I see it, it doesn't matter one way or another.
DNA does have a lot to do with it. It does not cause one to be a deadbeat, a criminal, or leech. It has a lot to do with ambition, mannerisms, emotional makeup, etc..
As far as using religion, it seems there is very little sense of community, and nobody sees themselves as part of a system.
You saw and heard on the news right after 9/11 about how people felt 'connected' for just a bit, and then went back to normal. That pissed me off, that people were so blind that they didn't notice anything before.

5. Maybe the worst, maybe just the most stretched. How long has it been since there has been any conflict to unite us? A long time. I don't think many people have to look into themselves and make major decisions for the good of themselves. Until they can do that, there will be little to do for the good of others. Who knows; if I were born an average, healthy kid, I might not notice, I might just be that way.

5A: Environment, yeah...check it.
A doctor of mine and her son got hit by that.

6. Forgotten? Yeah, let's see the ages of the people running the big corporations and in office, or even running for office.
Forget WWII, we've got to worry about some 12-year old girl downloading the latest Spears single from Kazaa and putting an unsuspecting parent or three in finacial trouble over something that probably helped get the CD selling in the first place.
We need the Chinese or somebody to come carpet-bomb Texas. We'd have something really useful to do, then, and not enough people to spare for petty affairs like the RIAA's [un]lossed revenue.

Oh well. I can only do enough for me and my friends. Hopefully that will be enough.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
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Originally posted by: AmbitV
Originally posted by: DAGTA
I agree with everything said there except the part about Einstein's theories of relativity. I don't see how his theories have anything to do with the moral decline of this country.

Not saying his theories directly led to immorality. It's just that, in my view, his theories have led more generally to a kind of relative thinking in day to day life.

E.g. Iraqui prisoner abuse is okay, because at least they didn't get behaaded like the American
Moral relativity has been around for a long time.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: AmbitV
Originally posted by: Vaerilis
"scientific theories have completely replaced morality and personal responsibility"
What do you mean???

I mean that the gradual yet inexorable decay in social and cultural values can be attributed in part to modern scientific theories that have influenced our way of thinking. I expoound my views in the rest of the paragraph.
Bah, feh and:thumbsdown:.
Scientific discoveries have nothing to do with morality at all. They have to do with inventiveness of people and the ability for those people to get research grants.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
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Originally posted by: PCTweaker5
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
While I am an atheist, Darwin?s theories have led to a decline in religion, which undoubtedly accounts for much of the moral decay that has taken place. Einstein?s relativism has led to moral relativism, which has replaced God?s moral absolutes.

Once I got to this point, I dismissed you as an intellectual lightweight and stopped reading.

Good decision!

I have a funny feeling that you and I think it was a "good decision" for entirely different reasons.
 

Bowmaster

Senior member
Mar 11, 2002
523
0
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people forget that women have been forced out of the home to support their families

Forced? Where do you live, next to some Chinese sweatshop?

My answer is that God IS for real!

You sound like some little kid whose friends just told him that Santa Claus is made up. NO!!! YOU LIE!!! HE IS REAL!!! You keep telling that to yourself, kid - you wouldn't want to take responsibility for your life, let someone else do it...
 

PCTweaker5

Banned
Jun 5, 2003
2,810
0
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Originally posted by: Bowmaster
people forget that women have been forced out of the home to support their families

Forced? Where do you live, next to some Chinese sweatshop?

My answer is that God IS for real!

You sound like some little kid whose friends just told him that Santa Claus is made up. NO!!! YOU LIE!!! HE IS REAL!!! You keep telling that to yourself, kid - you wouldn't want to take responsibility for your life, let someone else do it...

Responsibility? I take responsibility for my actions but nobody can take responsibility for their life. We cant create ourselves so how can you take responsibility for it? I keep telling myself God is real because it clears my mind of all the hatred I read about him and it makes me feel a whole lot better.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
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Originally posted by: PCTweaker5
Possibly! Lets hear your reason?

An athiest who is lamenting the lack of moral absolutes derived from God's laws. He is criticising the loss of a morality in which he himself does not believe. He is an intellectual lightweight because while he announces this credibility issue, he does not deal with it, and therefore there is no need to take what he says seriously.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
You don't have to be religious to have morals.

Religion is used to explain the unexplainable. The further science advances, the more we can explain - we don't need the mystical explination anymore. You cannot confuse the concept of morality with the concept of religion.

Religion is a crutch for the weak. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. It doesen't have to be a negative thing. Everybody is different. They simply don't wish to think beyond what people tell them.

I am incapable of simply believing what someone tells me(at least along those lines). It's blind faith. The blind leading the blind. Pointless.
 

PCTweaker5

Banned
Jun 5, 2003
2,810
0
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And so what if science some day discovered God to be real, would you then follow in him or would you just continue your pointless life?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
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Originally posted by: Eli
You don't have to be religious to have morals.

Religion is used to explain the unexplainable. The further science advances, the more we can explain - we don't need the mystical explination anymore. You cannot confuse the concept of morality with the concept of religion.

Religion is a crutch for the weak. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. It doesen't have to be a negative thing. Everybody is different. They simply don't wish to think beyond what people tell them.

I am incapable of simply believing what someone tells me(at least along those lines). It's blind faith. The blind leading the blind. Pointless.

I'm with you. The OP states that morals are derived from religion, decries the lack of such morality, and announces himself to be an athiest.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Originally posted by: PCTweaker5
And so what if science some day discovered God to be real, would you then follow in him or would you just continue your pointless life?

If the process of science discoveres God to be real, then that would be another data point with regard to the composition of the universe. Would I automatically "worship" such a God just because one exists? No.

And why do you assume life to be pointless without God?
 

eigen

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2003
4,000
1
0
All civilizations collapse. (Do you have a counter-example)
Deal.
Enjoy the show.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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76
Originally posted by: PCTweaker5
And so what if science some day discovered God to be real, would you then follow in him or would you just continue your pointless life?

I'd devote my life to finding a way to poke God with some kind of stick, via space probe, if necessary.
 

DWW

Platinum Member
Apr 4, 2003
2,030
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Look at the current youth of America in the "hip hop" scence. They are most often pretty "religious" (in their view of course) and wear gold/platinum crosses, always talk about Jesus then go cap some "foo" that gave them the wrong look. Imagine how crazy they would be without Jesus :confused: The same can be applied for ultra religious people in the east who blow up themselves and others...just imagine what they would do if they weren't "restrained" by their god.

I'm glad religion is around even though I'm not a believer. It helps to keep those who lack intelligence in some sort of check. I do think that morals can exist without religion but that is mostly found in more intelligent folk.

So I think the OP is right to say that religion can play a part in morals at the same time as being an atheist.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
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I think a lot of advances have been made regarding social and cultural aspects - religious tolerance, ethnic tolerance, etc. Obviously we're still working on that, but it definitely isn't something that has decayed.

You're only looking at positives of the past and the negatives of today. What about the "greatest generation"? They had segregation among themselves in WW2. So while some things may have decayed, several have also improved.
 

PCTweaker5

Banned
Jun 5, 2003
2,810
0
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Originally posted by: DWW
Look at the current youth of America in the "hip hop" scence. They are most often pretty "religious" (in their view of course) and wear gold/platinum crosses, always talk about Jesus then go cap some "foo" that gave them the wrong look. Imagine how crazy they would be without Jesus :confused: The same can be applied for ultra religious people in the east who blow up themselves and others...just imagine what they would do if they weren't "restrained" by their god.

I'm glad religion is around even though I'm not a believer. It helps to keep those who lack intelligence in some sort of check. I do think that morals can exist without religion but that is mostly found in more intelligent folk.

So I think the OP is right to say that religion can play a part in morals at the same time as being an atheist.

Religion is the reason those guys ARE blowing themselves up! They would probably be doing nothing of the sort is religion didnt exist. I think it is stupid that people get killed over religion, but I guess its the way life is intended to be so make/think of it what you must but I believe in God until my time is up. Good luck to you all!
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Surely I'm not the only one that wants to poke\prod God with a stick? It would be great!
 

sonambulo

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2004
4,777
1
0
Originally posted by: DWW
Look at the current youth of America in the "hip hop" scence. They are most often pretty "religious" (in their view of course) and wear gold/platinum crosses, always talk about Jesus then go cap some "foo" that gave them the wrong look. Imagine how crazy they would be without Jesus :confused: The same can be applied for ultra religious people in the east who blow up themselves and others...just imagine what they would do if they weren't "restrained" by their god.

I'm glad religion is around even though I'm not a believer. It helps to keep those who lack intelligence in some sort of check. I do think that morals can exist without religion but that is mostly found in more intelligent folk.

So I think the OP is right to say that religion can play a part in morals at the same time as being an atheist.

next time, before you start making vast blanket generalizations, take a peek at raw data instead of something you saw on tv.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
This worship of the "greatest" generation ignores the fact that it was a generation where only white males were full citizens.

That generation looked the other way at:
- spousal abuse and spousal rape
- child abuse and incest
- high-paying and management jobs denied almost entirely to women and minorities
- violence against minorities: as late as the sixties a young black man was murdered for whistling at a white woman. The local police knew the brother and father were responsible but did nothing.
- denial of the vote to minorities, through threat of violence and minorities-only voting tests
- denial of educational opportunities to minorities.

That generation did sacrifice immensly to keep the world safe from facist rule (at least until we helped get Ashcroft into power), but don't consider the forties and fifities some perfect paradise of love, harmony, and charity.