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What's going on in Jerusalem?

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,281
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Maybe Palestinians should have thought twice before starting a bombing campaign.

Yes, maintaining peace does not solve their broader situation, but neither does starting a shooting war. Idiots shrieking over bombers getting bombed notwithstanding.

Those who fired first and continue to fire should be pummeled into the ground until they stop firing.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
27,907
13,750
136
Forgetting their long history for a second, anyone know how the latest escalation of violence started?
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
28,498
4,111
126
Maybe Palestinians should have thought twice before starting a bombing campaign.

Yes, maintaining peace does not solve their broader situation, but neither does starting a shooting war. Idiots shrieking over bombers getting bombed notwithstanding.

Those who fired first and continue to fire should be pummeled into the ground until they stop firing.
Beating down someone who has markedly less power than you do is not a good look.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
22,923
25,038
136

just coincidence they write that and a couple of hours later ap is bombed

Forgetting their long history for a second, anyone know how the latest escalation of violence started?
best i have read was :

the timeline of this particular flare-up was
1) Israeli Courts evicted a number of Arab families from their homes in Jerusalem;
2) Arabs protested this, because it was an occupied area;
3) Israeli security forces cracked down on the protests HARD, tear gassing and stun grenading worshipers in one of the bigger mosques in Jerusalem;
4) Hamas fires a small number of rockets, all of them get intercepted by the Iron Dome;
5) Israel starts bombing Gaza (not Jerusalem, which is a few hundred km away);
6) Hamas fires even more rockets (1,000+ ). A few of them get through the Iron Dome;
7) Lots of fighting, Israeli ground troops deploying

Netanyahu has MASSIVE pressure right now to stay in office,if removed from government, he goes to prison for, among other things, funding Hamas . It just so happens that a small event (an Isreali court evicting palestinian families) in one city suddenly turned into a ground operation with tanks, artillery, and air support in 7 days in a completely different city ordered by the guy who literally can't lose power or he goes to prison for a long time
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,055
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136
Israel wants to be able to persecute Palestinians, such as evicting them and strong arming them out of their homes, basically just state sponsored terrorism, and just have them be submissive and not react at all. So Hamas reacts because they can't take all this lying down, and they fire rockets. It's two sides playing chicken, with one having all the big guns.

But now Israel is destroying the offices of international journalist organizations.

Israel is just as much of a menace as Hamas.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,522
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Israel is just as much of a menace as Hamas.
This is basically it. Hamas is a terror organization but it's hard not to classify Israeli actions the same way. Israel has kept the Palestinians under pressure (economic, security, physical, social) for decades. Even the Arabs who are Israeli citizens have relatively meager rights in the state. The uneven balance of power is nothing but an engine for conflict that will never stop as long as the current situation prevails. Judgements about who started what and which time are irrelevant now. It's simply a question of who's got power and who doesn't.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,055
8,732
136
This is basically it. Hamas is a terror organization but it's hard not to classify Israeli actions the same way. Israel has kept the Palestinians under pressure (economic, security, physical, social) for decades. Even the Arabs who are Israeli citizens have relatively meager rights in the state. The uneven balance of power is nothing but an engine for conflict that will never stop as long as the current situation prevails. Judgements about who started what and which time are irrelevant now. It's simply a question of who's got power and who doesn't.
Also now you also have Netanyahu just fighting to remain in power. He is wagging the dog. He provoked Hamas by shitting on Palestinians in Jerusalem with the evictions and raids knowing what they would do, and escalated his response more than usual to create a larger crisis than these things normally do.

He is like Trump. They are all the same kind of men.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,522
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I believe that if you could have switched all the Palestinian babies with all the Israeli babies born in the last thirty years it would be Jews firing rockets into Israel and Palestinians bombing Gaza.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
3,062
658
146
the timeline of this particular flare-up was
1) Israeli Courts evicted a number of Arab families from their homes in Jerusalem;
2) Arabs protested this, because it was an occupied area;
3) Israeli security forces cracked down on the protests HARD, tear gassing and stun grenading worshipers in one of the bigger mosques in Jerusalem;
4) Hamas fires a small number of rockets, all of them get intercepted by the Iron Dome;
5) Israel starts bombing Gaza (not Jerusalem, which is a few hundred km away);
6) Hamas fires even more rockets (1,000+ ). A few of them get through the Iron Dome;
7) Lots of fighting, Israeli ground troops deploying
If I may:

1) Israeli Courts evicted a number of Arab families from their homes in Jerusalem; (Specifically Sheikh Jarrah. There are questions of title that go back to the Ottoman Empire. The ownership of these particular homes is before the Israeli courts. Generally, the tenants are allowed to stay if they will pay rent. These tenants dispute ownership and either didn't or now won't pay rent. The residents say they're being harassed out before the decision comes down, or expect a negative decision.)
2) Arabs protested this, because it was an occupied area; (Kinda, Jews are the undisputed owners of some properties in East Jerusalem. However, it's the disputed ownership and perceived/actual unfairness of the Israeli courts that is a big part. There's also some sort of a "Jerusalem Day march" for Israelis coming up which did plan to route through traditionally Muslim neighbourhoods, which is seen as a provocation.)
3) Israeli security forces cracked down on the protests HARD, tear gassing and stun grenading worshipers in one of the bigger mosques in Jerusalem; (al-Aqsa, third most important mosque in the world to muslims, arguably.)
4) Hamas fires a small number of rockets, all of them get intercepted by the Iron Dome; (fired from Gaza, which they control. They don't control East Jerusalem or the West Bank.)
5) Israel starts bombing Gaza (not Jerusalem, which is a few hundred km away);
6) Hamas fires even more rockets (1,000+ ). A few of them get through the Iron Dome; (hard to say what "gets through" Iron Dome because they don't attempt to intercept everything, only if Iron Dome thinks it's going to strike a populated area. Many Hamas missiles are also duds and actually land in Gaza.)
7) Lots of fighting, Israeli ground troops deploying (deploying to the area, no evidence of an actual ground invasion yet.)
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,055
8,732
136
If I may:

1) Israeli Courts evicted a number of Arab families from their homes in Jerusalem; (Specifically Sheikh Jarrah. There are questions of title that go back to the Ottoman Empire. The ownership of these particular homes is before the Israeli courts. Generally, the tenants are allowed to stay if they will pay rent. These tenants dispute ownership and either didn't or now won't pay rent. The residents say they're being harassed out before the decision comes down, or expect a negative decision.)
2) Arabs protested this, because it was an occupied area; (Kinda, Jews are the undisputed owners of some properties in East Jerusalem. However, it's the disputed ownership and perceived/actual unfairness of the Israeli courts that is a big part. There's also some sort of a "Jerusalem Day march" for Israelis coming up which did plan to route through traditionally Muslim neighbourhoods, which is seen as a provocation.)
3) Israeli security forces cracked down on the protests HARD, tear gassing and stun grenading worshipers in one of the bigger mosques in Jerusalem; (al-Aqsa, third most important mosque in the world to muslims, arguably.)
4) Hamas fires a small number of rockets, all of them get intercepted by the Iron Dome; (fired from Gaza, which they control. They don't control East Jerusalem or the West Bank.)
5) Israel starts bombing Gaza (not Jerusalem, which is a few hundred km away);
6) Hamas fires even more rockets (1,000+ ). A few of them get through the Iron Dome; (hard to say what "gets through" Iron Dome because they don't attempt to intercept everything, only if Iron Dome thinks it's going to strike a populated area. Many Hamas missiles are also duds and actually land in Gaza.)
7) Lots of fighting, Israeli ground troops deploying (deploying to the area, no evidence of an actual ground invasion yet.)
You left out Israeli army takes out building that houses international news organizations destroying much of their equipment. Also, Benjamin Netanyahu needs to wag the dog in order to remain in power.
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
3,062
658
146
You left out Israeli army takes out building that houses international news organizations destroying much of their equipment. Also, Benjamin Netanyahu needs to wag the dog in order to remain in power.
It's unfortunate that Hamas seems to have went to the George W Bush School of Strategery.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,446
4,063
126
So just peeking into these goings a bit and...can somebody explain why the Israeli Air Force is blowing up apartment blocs?
Their explanation for the bombing of that 12 story office building yesterday was that Hamas had strategic offices in it. They warned inhabitants of the building that in an hour's time, the building would be destroyed. Several news organizations worked in that building. The Israeli airforce took it down.

This isn't about Netenyahu trying to hold on to power?
They gotta get rid of him once and for all. Israel needs a major political shakeup.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,281
3,811
126
Was it the tallest building in Gaza? It is strategic to not give the opponent a vantage. Such a position would help with aiming rockets.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
62,632
15,978
136
And then the next tallest building, and the next, and the next…

This is how Israel treats the people under its care.
 
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Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
484
578
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Is not that Israel is a "bigger menace than Hamas", the reality is that Israel IS the menace, ever was.
Hamas is just as extremist as the zionist government is. Hamas only exists because the zionists supported and funded it to undermine the palestinian secular factions. It also exists mostly because of how Israel has behaved since the beginning of its invention, never keeping it's words, always violating threatening, initiating wars of aggression, against all international and humanitarian law, always, always against peace because peace for them means accepting the indigenous inhabitants and this goes against their zionist ideal, to ethnic cleanse the region. The only real option they left was resistance, including armed resistance.

There's only one side to this story and one discussion, when will the world act to stop the zionist terrorist state? People were being manhandled for a entire week or more even during their religious festival, to the point that one of their most important mosques was raided and there was jewish groups in streets cheering and danced at the sigh of a most burning and the situation only escalated when Hamas fired a few rockets to attract world's attention?

How many times people will have to watch zionist leadership on live television announcing that they will commit crimes against humanity and assuring their troops that they will do everything to defend them for their crimes for people to understand what's this all about? An also, that many have their government and leaders helping genocides?
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,522
12,059
136
No one in the history of warfare ever wanted to improve their aim......
These are unguided rockets. Fine aim isn't going to mean jack. Unless I'm supposed to believe the inhabitants of Gaza can't identify the general direction of Israel until elevated this is nonsense.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,281
3,811
126
And this point is a red herring to distract from the reality of Israeli oppression, violence, and collective punishment.
The point is a tall building's strategic value. There is a good reason to remove it. They gave warning before destroying it.

You want to talk violence and collective punishment? An unguided rocket barrage is the Palestinian version of carpet bombing Israel. I would fault no nation for responding in kind. To return fire when fired upon. At some point enough force and violence will bring an end to Palestinian aggression. Which itself is a red herring from how to improve their lives during peace time.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
62,632
15,978
136
The point is a tall building's strategic value. There is a good reason to remove it. They gave warning before destroying it.

You want to talk violence and collective punishment? An unguided rocket barrage is the Palestinian version of carpet bombing Israel. I would fault no nation for responding in kind. To return fire when fired upon. At some point enough force and violence will bring an end to Palestinian aggression. Which itself is a red herring from how to improve their lives during peace time.
You're confused mightily about aggression. The day to day brutality of the Israeli regime is certainly unending violent aggression against the Palestinian people, people under the governance of the Israeli state.
 
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