What's going on in Israel?

[woolfe9998]

Palestinians were kicked off their lands and continue to be kicked off to this day. Whereupon they are placed onto a defacto reservation which they and the descendants are never allowed to leave.
I have found that many social media posts are merely justifications for people to treat other people in ways they themselves would never want to be treated.

Some Palestinians were kicked off their land in '48, after which they went to live in refugee camps run by the occupying Jordanians (west bank) and Egyptians (Gaza) for 20 years. No one ever complained about mistreatment of the Palestinians then. It was only after Israel took control of those territories in '67 that there was a peep of protest. This was literally the first ever talk of Palestinian nationalism.

The idea that this whole conflict is all about displaced people being kicked off their land is a crock. This is a culture/religious war and always has been.

 

[Vic]

No doubt there's a long list of people on social media ready and willing to trade places with a Palestinian in Gaza. Fucking Disneyland, right? How dare anyone be ungrateful of the privilege...

 

[woolfe9998]

An invasion of what though? In the lead up to the declaration of the State of Israel, those doing the declaring were busy waging a dirty war against the British (fair game, the British were an occupying foreign power) and against their Arab neighbors with the explicit intent of driving the Arabs out or subjugating them (both intents fulfilled with the creation of the subsequent Israeli apartheid state). The neighboring states acted in the context of the known intent of the self-declared leaders of the new Israeli state.

So Israel precipitated the invasion in '48, when they were still a tiny nation who was vastly out-numbered?

Prove it, with actual historical references, please.

 

[Vic]

Some Palestinians were kicked off their land in '48, after which they went to live in refugee camps run by the occupying Jordanians (west bank) and Egyptians (Gaza) for 20 years. No one ever complained about mistreatment of the Palestinians then. It was only after Israel took control of those territories in '67 that there was a peep of protest. This was literally the first ever talk of Palestinian nationalism.

The idea that this whole conflict is all about displaced people being kicked off their land is a crock. This is a culture/religious war and always has been.

The whole country was called Palestine prior to 1948, but the first talk of any Palestinian nationalism was in 1967? Seriously?

This isn't a culture or religious war. It was/is a land grab fueled by nationalism. By Jews who wanted a country for Jews and Jews only, and by bigoted Americans and Europeans who hoped to kick all the Jews out of their own countries, while maintaining a strategic beachhead in an area whose resources they were/are dependent. No offense, but everything else is just bullshit for the small-minded.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

I'm always amazed how flippantly people use 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' as synonyms. Ok, you're dealing with a super-sensitive topic and you're NOT gonna spend five seconds to think about your word choice?

 

[IronWing]

So Israel precipitated the invasion in '48, when they were still a tiny nation who was vastly out-numbered?

Prove it, with actual historical references, please.

Your reading comprehension problems aside, the leaders of the Israeli guerilla movement who declared the State of Israel precipitated the invasion by declaring themselves a government over territory that belonged, in large part, to other people. The "poor tiny Israel just wanted peace" schtick wears pretty thin when one looks at how the state of Israel came to exist at the expense of the other folks living in the lands claimed by the new state.

 

[Vic]

So Israel precipitated the invasion in '48, when they were still a tiny nation who was vastly out-numbered?

Prove it, with actual historical references, please.

That war is long over. And Israel won.. decisively. Now the problem is that many people want to keep fighting that war until the entirety of the losing side has been removed from the earth. Aka genocide.

 

[Vic]

I'm always amazed how flippantly people use 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' as synonyms. Ok, you're dealing with a super-sensitive topic and you're NOT gonna spend five seconds to think about your word choice?

They do think about it. Their word choice is intentional.

 

[woolfe9998]

The whole country was called Palestine prior to 1948, but the first talk of any Palestinian nationalism was in 1967? Seriously?

Yes, there was no talk of Palestinian nationalism prior to 1948. In fact, there was no talk of "Palestinians." At the time, they were just called "Arabs." There were "Arabs" and there were "Jews" in this territory (not country) called Palestine.

This isn't a culture or religious war. It was/is a land grab fueled by nationalism. By Jews who wanted a country for Jews and Jews only, and by bigoted Americans and Europeans who hoped to kick all the Jews out of their own countries, while maintaining a strategic beachhead in an area whose resources they were/are dependent. No offense, but everything else is just bullshit for the small-minded.

The Palestinians were offered statehood by the British in 1939, the UN in 1947, and Israel in 1999. The rejected it each and every time. After the last rejection, they started an Intifada wherein they carried out 157 suicide bombings (2000-2008) - most targeting civilians - killing over 1000 Israelis. Suicide bombings, a highly unlikely tactic for anyone not fanatically religious.

Then they installed Hamas as their leadership in Gaza, an organization whose charter is filled with anti-semitic filth and which pledges the physical destruction of the state of Israel. These are the people who launched the rockets, which everyone is saying is a cry of desperation of an oppressed people.

If this really was all about land, it would have been resolved ages ago, and the Palestinians would have been much better off.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

That war is long over. And Israel won.. decisively. Now the problem is that many people want to keep fighting that war until the entirety of the losing side has been removed from the earth. Aka genocide.

Right, because when I want to surrender to a war I don't raise a white flag - I shoot hundreds of rockets across the border.

 

[woolfe9998]

Your reading comprehension problems aside, the leaders of the Israeli guerilla movement who declared the State of Israel precipitated the invasion by declaring themselves a government over territory that belonged, in large part, to other people. The "poor tiny Israel just wanted peace" schtick wears pretty thin when one looks at how the state of Israel came to exist at the expense of the other folks living in the lands claimed by the new state.

I have no reading comprehension problem. I asked you to provide historical proof of the claims you made, which you have not.

The state of Israel which had been approved by the UN was not for Jews only. The Arabs who were displaced would still be there had the surrounding Arab nations not invaded. Half of them still are.

Contrary to your fact free claim, no one forced those neighboring Arab countries to invade. Not Israel, or anyone else.

 

[Vic]

Right, because when I want to surrender to a war I don't raise a white flag - I shoot hundreds of rockets across the border.

Right, because if it was happening to you, if your freedoms and those of your children were being threatened, you'd just cow to your oppressers like a dickless bitch and not fight back. I think everyone here already knew that.

 

[IronWing]

Yes, there was no talk of Palestinian nationalism prior to 1948. In fact, there was no talk of "Palestinians." At the time, they were just called "Arabs." There were "Arabs" and there were "Jews" in this territory (not country) called Palestine.



The Palestinians were offered statehood by the British in 1939, the UN in 1947, and Israel in 1999. The rejected it each and every time. After the last rejection, they started an Intifada wherein they carried out 157 suicide bombings (2000-2008) - most targeting civilians - killing over 1000 Israelis. Suicide bombings, a highly unlikely tactic for anyone not fanatically religious.

Then they installed Hamas as their leadership in Gaza, an organization whose charter is filled with anti-semitic filth and which pledges the physical destruction of the state of Israel. These are the people who launched the rockets, which everyone is saying is a cry of desperation of an oppressed people.

If this really was all about land, it would have been resolved ages ago, and the Palestinians would have been much better off.

Maybe if the US furnished the Palestinians with fighter jets and cluster bombs, they could get away from using suicide bombers. Hamas' rise was a direct response to Israeli oppression.

 

[woolfe9998]

That war is long over. And Israel won.. decisively. Now the problem is that many people want to keep fighting that war until the entirety of the losing side has been removed from the earth. Aka genocide.

If it's "genocide," it's awfully slow. The Arab population of the West Bank alone has tripled since Israel first occupied the territory in 1967. Also, their yearly birth rates are completely normal (1.7% IIRC). And their yearly death rates are lower than in the United States, according to many sources. Here's one.

If this is what Israel is actually doing, they are the most incompetent genocidaires in history.

This kind of politically motivated hyperbole is a real insult to people who have been actual victims of genocide.

 

[woolfe9998]

Maybe if the US furnished the Palestinians with fighter jets and cluster bombs, they could get away from using suicide bombers. Hamas' rise was a direct response to Israeli oppression.

Suicidal terrorism is not very likely without a religious motivation. The terrorists themselves say that their motivation is religious.

Having stronger weapons doesn't automatically make you the oppressor.

Netanyahu's rise was a direct response to Palestinian terrorism. They were attacked, so they elected a hardliner. Neither side's hardliners are terribly interested in peace.

 

[Vic]

If it's "genocide," it's awfully slow. The Arab population of the West Bank alone has tripled since Israel first occupied the territory in 1967. Also, their yearly birth rates are completely normal. And their yearly death rates are lower than in the United States, according to many sources. Here's one.

If this is what Israel is actually doing, they are the most incompetent genocidaires in history.

This kind of politically motivated hyperbole is a real insult to people who have been actual victims of genocide.

Just let me know when you're ready and willing to trade places with a Palestinian in Gaza. Until then, you're just apologizing.

 

[Vic]

Maybe if the US furnished the Palestinians with fighter jets and cluster bombs, they could get away from using suicide bombers. Hamas' rise was a direct response to Israeli oppression.

The same people who view mask wearing as tyranny, believe their 1a rights are infringed upon every time someone disagrees with them, and uphold the 2a as the only way to preserve their freedoms, want us to believe that the Palestinians had no rights whatsoever to fight back to defend their lands and freedoms. The very same people.

 

[woolfe9998]

Just let me know when you're ready and willing to trade places with a Palestinian in Gaza. Until then, you're just apologizing.

You have no response, do you? You called it a "genocide" and it clearly is not, by any definition, by any metric.

I don't really want to trade places with the Palestinians, or, for that matter, anyone who lives in a developing part of the world. Which doesn't mean that what is happening there is "genocide."

Incidentally, the Palestinian territories are in worse condition than 74 countries, development wise, and better condition than 77.

HDI is a well accepted metric.

List of countries by inequality-adjusted Human Development Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Weird how many surrounding Arab states are worse off than the Palestinian territories. I'm pretty sure it has nothing whatsoever to do with Israel.

 

[Vic]

You have no response, do you? You called it a "genocide" and it clearly is not, by any definition, by any metric.

I don't really want to trade places with the Palestinians, or, for that matter, anyone who lives in a developing part of the world. Which doesn't mean that what is happening there is "genocide."

Incidentally, the Palestinian territories are in worse condition than 74 countries, development wise, and better condition than 77.

HDI is a well accepted metric.

List of countries by inequality-adjusted Human Development Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Weird how many surrounding Arab states are worse off than the Palestinian territories. I'm pretty sure it has nothing whatsoever to do with Israel.

So when are you going? I'll buy your ticket even.

 

[Ajay]

Give me a break. We hear daily about how people are "dog whistling" racism, but when it comes to anti-Semitism, it's OK to just play dumb?

I'm not 'dog-whistling' anything. I'm not an anti-Semite; they are just another ethnic group in America. Apparently I am ignorant of some neo-nazi propaganda or something. I just feel like I'm wasting my time responding to you because you have a stick up your butt over what I said and you can't or won't get over it. Go harass someone else, please.

 

[woolfe9998]

So when are you going? I'll buy your ticket even.

Another fact free quip, I see. Still no substantive response. Because you've got nothing.

I've been to the West Bank and Gaza. Twice, actually. First time in 1980. Second time in 1984.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So when are you going? I'll buy your ticket even.

There are so many toolbags like you here that clearly have no sense or rationale for public debate.

Christ, go back to grade-school.

 

[Svnla]

<snip>

Prove it, with actual historical references, please.

Just want to pop in since now you are demanding proof but in another thread, you offered none.

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No need to answer in this thread, just come to the ^^^^ and in your own word "PROVE IT"...with actual full quotes in full context.

What good for the goose is good for the gander, right? See you soon in the other thread. Now we are back to the regular scheduled programming.

 

[Vic]

Another fact free quip, I see. Still no substantive response. Because you've got nothing.

I've been to the West Bank and Gaza. Twice, actually. First time in 1980. Second time in 1984.

I'm just observing that your comments here are no different than those of any racist. If only the 'Palestinian community' would clean up their own act, then the Israeli govt wouldn't have to murder them in the streets!

 

[woolfe9998]

Just want to pop in since now you are demanding proof but in another thread, you offered none.

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No need to answer in this thread, just come to the ^^^^ and in your own word "PROVE IT"...with actual full quotes in full context.

What good for the goose is good for the gander, right? See you soon in the other thread. Now we are back to the regular scheduled programming.

Really shouldn't bring the other thread into this. And you're full of crap. I read through your posting history and posted what I found. Which was not praising Trump, but frequently defending him, and always being on the same side of the political fence. You never replied to that post, so I fail to see how any sort of proof was demanded of anything.

You didn't reply then, but you can reply any time you like, just not in this thread.