Whats cpu will not bottleneck the 8800GT.

[Twista]

i have the 4000+ overclocked to 2.7 and its still pretty laggy in games. I dont think its video lag because of the video card. I only scored 9700 in 3dmark06. Im not basing my guess on the 3dmark06, but on experience from playing.

Now, whats the cheapest cpu i can get that will not bottle neck me? I cant afford a intel due $4324324 cpu. I run a amd x2 right now with 500w ps so im looking for that something fits in a x2 slot and is not going to break the average persons pocket.

thanks.

Just my 3dmark score: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=5734498

 

[Denithor]

abit IP35-E $65 after MIR
e2160 $70
2x1GB DDR2-800 $40 (if you don't already have DDR2)

Total: ~$175 after MIR

Overclock to 3GHz. End of lag problems.

 

[KBTuning]

you might need something like an intel tho... id stay far away from Phenom no matter what...d
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=5591023

thats my 3dmark06 score for compare and im running two 9600GT's in SLi with a Q6600 at 2.4GHz.... im pretty sure that program isnt optimized to run on 4 core, but i would expect that it does 2 just fine...


also what socket are you running? 939 or AM2? i had an A64 3000+ overclocked to 2.2GHZ(winchester core ftw lol) before my current system and it really made more sense to just build a new system than it did to try and upgrade with my 939...

 

[TheJian]

Originally posted by: Denithor
abit IP35-E $65 after MIR
e2160 $70
2x1GB DDR2-800 $40 (if you don't already have DDR2)

Total: ~$175 after MIR

Overclock to 3GHz. End of lag problems.

Agreed, that's like getting a 3.2+ of Twista's chip. 500/core is a lot, and we're talking a chip that should go well past 3.0.

 

[Twista]

i have a 940 amd chip. Im not looking to go the intel route since i just brought this cpu/mobo 1 week ago lol. it was only $90 for both, but im looking to just spend some money on a cpu. Maybe 150-200. I mean i just brought a $200 video card so i need some cpu power.

i have 2gb of ddr 677 (800) already which is 1 week old also.

system specs:
heres my current specs
Biostar AM2 Mobo
4000+ x2 CPU 940
2gb DDR2 800 ram
sata 7200 500gb HDD with 16mb cache
500w coolermaster psu
Mobo that wont up my vcore.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4648/35116746qa6.jpg

 

[superstition]

There is variability in how much one can overclock any chip. Some people have maxed at 2.8

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Twista
i have a 940 amd chip. Im not looking to go the intel route since i just brought this cpu/mobo 1 week ago lol. it was only $90 for both, but im looking to just spend some money on a cpu. Maybe 150-200. I mean i just brought a $200 video card so i need some cpu power.

i have 2gb of ddr 677 (800) already which is 1 week old also.

So you can get a motherboard AND CPU for $135 (see above) that will kill any AMD chip, since you already have the memory, so why not ????

 

[v8envy]

There is something else 'lagging' you. I have absolutely *ZERO* hiccuping or hitching problems in any game, and yet my E2180 at 2.66ghz was demonstrably bottlenecking my 8800GT at 1600x1200x4fsaa. (read: 120 average fps in HL2 lost coast demo vs. 140ish for similar hardware on an friend's 3.2 ghz Q6600). After that batch of testing I left the cpu downclocked to 2.66 at lower voltage.

The fastest AMD x2 cpu is the 6400x2 Windsor, priced at around $160. That should be roughly equivalent to my current CPU downclocked to 2.66 ghz. And will still bottleneck your GPU in many cases.

For around $160 you are MUCH better off getting an E4500 ($110-ish) and a $60 AR abit P35-E board. That comes close to 6400x2 performance at stock 2 ghz, and will outperform by up to 50% with three simple bios setting changes @ 3 ghz.

And btw, a 2xxx at 3 ghz is >> a 3.2 ghz Brisbane *OR* Windsor cpu. Check benchmarks. The core chips scale well with clock rate increases, the AMD chips not quite so well. The 10% IPC deficit at low clock rates grows to as much as 50% once you get over 3 ghz on both chips.

The 125 watt AMD will cost more to run in the long term than a 90-ish watt core2.

AMD is for budget builds, not overclocked gaming PCs.

 

[Twista]

=[ So you guys are saying AMD is trash now for gaming. All my builds have been budget so thats why i kept with AMD. Never made an Intel system before and i know its not different.
Anyways are you saying the e2160 a 1.8ghz cpu can overclock to 3.0ghz and is much better than the current AMD x2 cpus out????

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Twista
=[ So you guys are saying AMD is trash now for gaming. All my builds have been budget so thats why i kept with AMD. Never made an Intel system before and i know its not different.
Anyways are you saying the e2160 a 1.8ghz cpu can overclock to 3.0ghz and is much better than the current AMD x2 cpus out????

Bingo !!!! We have a winner !

Now personally I don't have that exact CPU, but I do have an E6300 (1.86 ghz stock) running 3430 !

 

[Twista]

nvm. thanks guys/gals. Guess im dropping my 1week old mobo/cpu setup for a intel motherboard/cpu.

Dang wish i knew this before i brought the amd.

 

[superstition]

If you're planning to overclock to 3 GHz or higher, factor in the cost of a high-quality third-party cooler. There are stealth costs that people often leave out. Not only do I have a Tuniq tower, but I had to lap it (high quality sand paper isn't free) and I had to buy a 140 mm fan to point at my Gigabyte P35-DS3L northbridge/chipset. The e2140 I have requires a higher FSB speed than the e2160 or e2180 because of its lower multiplier, but don't neglect good cooling if you want reliable and safe overclocking.

 

[jterrell]

I suspect the abit mobo and the E2xx0 will do you quite well just overclocked on stock air.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/...7&model2=883&chart=419

Shows the e2160 is slightly better than the 4000+ at stock speeds and it is known as a much better overclocker.
I also suspect the ABIT is just an all around better mobo than that biostar.

But if the speed still seems an issue you can always go aftermarket cooler and really pump that e2160 up.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: superstition
If you're planning to overclock to 3 GHz or higher, factor in the cost of a high-quality third-party cooler.

Um...why? My e6400 (stock: 2.13GHz) hums along just fine on stock cooling at 3GHz, under full load only hits 55C max. Note that this is one of the first generation chips and the later models tend to overclock better with even less heat.

 

[sutahz]

On these forums ppl have said they OC'd the 2160 to 3GHz on stock cooler. If he wanted to play it safe he could get a $15-20 HSF that uses heatpipes and is no doubt better then the tiny stock cooler.
Are you sure you needed a 140mm fan blowing on your NB superstition? That motherboard can handle 333FSB cpu's nativly. 333x9(2160's multi)=3GHz. The NB doesn't need extra cooling, thats well within design specs.
Twista will be fine.

 

[Twista]

Originally posted by: jterrell
I suspect the abit mobo and the E2xx0 will do you quite well just overclocked on stock air.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/...7&model2=883&chart=419

Shows the e2160 is slightly better than the 4000+ at stock speeds and it is known as a much better overclocker.
I also suspect the ABIT is just an all around better mobo than that biostar.

But if the speed still seems an issue you can always go aftermarket cooler and really pump that e2160 up.

Where would i be on that chart with the e2160 overclocked to 3ghz? My benchmark is setup on 3dmark06 by the way. Would i be around or above the amd x2 6400+?

 

[v8envy]

You can search the net, but the short answer is yes. You will get a higher 3dmark06. Your goal will be roughly 10k 3dmark06. Which is not much higher than what you've got now. Which also means there's some other issue causing the hitching, not just a lack of CPU.

Look at the E2xxx/E4xxx thread on this very forum. You can see the majority of people are at ~3 ghz with stock cooling. It's only when reaching > 3 ghz that people start upping voltages and getting aftermarket cooling.

My temperatures were well below uncomfortable at 3.33ghz @ 1.41v with a stock cooler, but I have a nice case with a duct for outside air for the cpu. At 3.0 ghz and 1.325 volts the temperatures are at 24C idle/51C load -- a hair over stock 22/48. At 2.66 @ 1.25v they're exactly the same as at stock.

North bridge on my DS3L stays cool enough to touch at factory supported 333 mhz. You'd need a fan to crank it to 400+ mhz and/or if overvolting, no doubt. But at factory supported frequencies the chipset cooling is FINE.

In summary, a 3 ghz OC is a no-brainer with quality low end stock parts. 3.2 and higher on an E2xxx/E4xxx is where you need higher end components.

 

[harpoon84]

Yeah, I'll agree with v8envy on this. 3GHz should be doable on the stock HSF. It's a very common overclock, you don't really need high end air for it.

 

[Twista]

im not sure what else could limit my computer.

The chipset is nf4 and hard drive is 16mb cache 7200 rpm which is on its on channel because of sata. Im using onboard audio, but thats it.

Game i play is Team fortress 2. Should i play with AA/AF on or off. Are you suppose to see lag when aa/af is on?

when people say they play games with the 8800gt on MAX high everything. Does that include highest aa/af?

 

[v8envy]

I have an 8800GT as well (factory OCd about 11%, but that shouldn't matter). I play tf2 at 1600x1200x4xaa trilinear filtering. All texture and quality settings at max levels.

I have yet to see *any* lag that isn't network. And I'm usually in the suicide pyro rush as either the pyro or the medic, so lots of particle effects, people on fire and explosions all over.

Make sure it's not your virus/spyware scanner or any number of a thousand background processes everything seems to have for updating. Turn all that crap OFF and your machine will thank you. Get process explorer and see what's pegging your CPUs.

Also check to see if your video card is hitting > 100C. That would cause slowdowns as well.

You didn't mention the brand of your PSU. If it's a budget PSU then it may not be cranking out enough power for the video + OCd CPU. Not all 500 watt PSUs are created equal -- I'd rather use a quality 250 watt PSU over some of the sub-$50 500 watters out there.

 

[Twista]

Originally posted by: v8envy
I have an 8800GT as well (factory OCd about 11%, but that shouldn't matter). I play tf2 at 1600x1200x4xaa trilinear filtering. All texture and quality settings at max levels.

I have yet to see *any* lag that isn't network. And I'm usually in the suicide pyro rush as either the pyro or the medic, so lots of particle effects, people on fire and explosions all over.

Make sure it's not your virus/spyware scanner or any number of a thousand background processes everything seems to have for updating. Turn all that crap OFF and your machine will thank you. Get process explorer and see what's pegging your CPUs.

Also check to see if your video card is hitting > 100C. That would cause slowdowns as well.

You didn't mention the brand of your PSU. If it's a budget PSU then it may not be cranking out enough power for the video + OCd CPU. Not all 500 watt PSUs are created equal -- I'd rather use a quality 250 watt PSU over some of the sub-$50 500 watters out there.

Its pretty much a fresh os install with firefox and amd drivers. NO AV or Firewall. What type of HDD do you have?

+3.3V@20A,+5V@20A,+12V1@16A,+12V2@16A,
-12V@0.8A, +5VSB@2.0A

link to my psu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...Tpk=coolermaster%2b500

Also, v8envy can you list your full system specs? =] glad to see another mustang lover on the site also.

i might be able to get the:
E4500. Would the e4500 @ 3ghz be faster than the e2160 @ 3ghz.
and a cheaper open box motherboard from newegg.

 

[TheJian]

Originally posted by: Twista

[snip]

Where would i be on that chart with the e2160 overclocked to 3ghz? My benchmark is setup on 3dmark06 by the way. Would i be around or above the amd x2 6400+?[/quote]

Yes, we're saying easy to hit 3ghz on e2160. Should be easy to go further. And yes you'll be ABOVE the x2 6400 assuming 3ghz+ on e2160. At 3.2ghz, an arguably easy speed to hit for most e2160's the 6400+ loses across the board by a decent margin. It's just that odds are in the e2160's favor.

More importantly to me though, is where I can go later? Phenom looks to never hit 3.2 before shanghai (and a board switch likely for AM2 users). So there isn't going to be an upgrade for them and NONE for you. AMD could magically get their process down (I love them, but they've failed for about a year on this thing) and put out a 3.2ghz phenom. Roadmaps show 2.8 Q3-4 and that was before all the crap hit the fan with the process depending on who you believe. I can easily bet Penryn will hit 4ghz if Intel wants to on 45nm (even today, let alone probably 2 more spins/steppings before say nehalem). If they take it further and make us REALLY happy and release a 32nm penryn shrink....Who knows. 4.5ghz?

Since you're all built (though only a week old) maybe you don't want to RMA for credit on the chip/board. You did get them cheap so at $90 total I'd almost call them throw away in a year anyway.

S940. No phenom. Your at a dead end. I'll leave the above for people that have AM2 boards (or yourself if you consider AM2 boards). It applies to them. Me, in your shoes? RMA board/cpu period. Since you said you have $200. AMD isn't CRAP for gaming, but it's a close call with such good OCing on Intel. I think 5000+ Black is the only AMD chip I'd consider today and that's NOT on your board.

 

[SlowSpyder]

You can get the 5000+ BE processor for around $100. They overclock to 3-3.2ghz it seems. I can't imagine your A64 at 2.7 is really holding you back that much though. Other then Gothic 3, which from what I understand is poorly coded/buggy, all my games run smooth as a babies butt.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Twista


link to my psu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...Tpk=coolermaster%2b500

Looks good enough to me.

Also, v8envy can you list your full system specs? =] glad to see another mustang lover on the site also.

E2180, stock cooler, antec EA500 (34 amps single 12v rail) psu, gigabyte DS3L board, 4x1mb 667 mhz HP ram from the $3/stick AR deal, micron D9 chips. Case is an older Antec Sonata BQE with additional strategically placed fans. ECS 8800GT with the factory Accelero-S1.

Hard drive at the moment is an older Seagate 200GB PATA unit -- the box usually runs Linux and that's a drive I had with XP on it. About a 3 year old drive + OS install, with lots of software and lingering drivers.

As far as the stang -- I'd love to continue loving it. But my wife is bogarting the thing because it gets 'Better gas mileage than our two Jeeps.' Never thought I'd see the day a 300 hp supercharged pushrod V8 becomes the family grocery getter. Ah well, the kids love the "fast car! fast car!" so it's all good. As long as I don't get too many additional reports regarding my car "starting to run out of power at 6500 rpm" I'll live.

i might be able to get the:
E4500. Would the e4500 @ 3ghz be faster than the e2160 @ 3ghz.
and a cheaper open box motherboard from newegg.

Absolutely. The additional meg of cache is worth about 200 mhz in terms of performance. Whether that's worth $40 extra is something only you can answer.

DO NOT cheap out with an Intel motherboard intended for OCing. There's a reason someone returned that mboard, and you don't know how hard they abused it before shipping it back. The $60 shipped AR Abit P35-E is as good as it gets. When I got my 2 DS3Ls for my 2 machines the Abit was out of stock, or I'd have bought that instead to save $60.

 

[JasonSix78]

Hey Twista, look your system over well before you drop cash on a completely new motherboard/processor. Intel has some great performing processors but that doesn't mean AMD is trash for gaming. Here's some questions to look at:

Have you tested system stability after your overclock?
What are your temperatures like at idle and load (CPU/Video)?
What games are you lagging in other than TF2?
What resolution and quality settings are you running in games?
Does your games lag when playing offline?

It really sounds to me like it's either a network problem or you're being a little over optimistic on what your system can do graphics-wise.