What You Don't Like

[Perknose]

. . . can teach you something.

Music. Homogeneity. The old practice of listening to an entire album on vinyl vs. nothing but singles purchased (cough) one by one.

I'm listening to a fascinating (to me) discussion about the loss of intricacy and range and diversity in modern popular music versus even just 10-20 years ago, let alone going back to the sixties or seventies.

If you have access to Radio Times with Marty Moss-Coane on NPR and you have the desire and the attention span to listen to her talk with music writer and musician TOM MOON, and long-time Grammy Award-winning recording engineer and music producer, PHIL NICOLO, to hear patterns of song structure over the last several decades.

Hey, I'm a certified fossil geezer who's fallen asleep up in the cheap seats. So, what do I know, right?

But these guys can make a far better case that they do know what they're talking about, and if you take the time to listen to them discuss this subject, complete with a ton of recordings used as examples, I think you'll find it well worth your time.

The discussion was prompted by a recent scientific study published by:

...scientists at the Spanish National Research Council, who have published a new report on songs released between 1955 and 2010, showing the "diversity of … note combinations … has consistently diminished in the last 50 years".

[...]

The researchers used a dataset of 464,411 music recordings to analyse what has changed – and what has stayed the same – over the past half-century of song.

[...]

When researchers write about "pitch transitions", they mean the way notes are used – the variety of intervals, and the difference between one melody and another. Melodies are becoming more and more similar, Serra explained to Reuters. "We obtained numerical indicators that the diversity of transitions between note combinations – roughly speaking chords plus melodies – has consistently diminished in the last 50 years."

Not only are the melodies of songs more similar than they used to be, the timbral palette employed – the sounds of the instruments – has also grown narrower. A trumpet's sound, its "timbre", is very different to the sound of an electric guitar or electric piano. But now, apparently, songs are relying on a much smaller range of timbres than in the past.

It's just a discussion, albeit a damn interesting one featuring two highly informed and passionate industry insiders who marshall a ton of great muscial examples to make their points, but don't stress if you think this is some boomer assault on your cultural values.

Take it for what it is: Opinion meant to provoke discourse.

However, tremble with fear if you disagree and STFU, because it's SCIENCE, bitches..

 

[SandEagle]

perk, no offense, but why is it that your threads always put me to sleep? zzzzzz

 

[IronWing]

Using more instruments usually means using more musicians and means higher production costs. The disintegration of the mass market as it existed pre-internet means that there are fewer buyers for most albums so fewer units over which to recover the higher costs of more instruments so fewer instruments = more profit.

Except, of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDUDWvB31lU

 

[Perknose]

perk, no offense, but why is it that your threads always put me to sleep? zzzzzz

If sleeping will keep you from posting, we all benefit.

 

[BudAshes]

The only people that spend money on music are 9 year old's on their parents Itune accounts. It's no wonder music sucks.

 

[IronWing]

The only people that spend money on music are 9 year old's on their parents Itune accounts. It's no wonder music sucks.

Hi, I'm Ironwing and I, I..., I still buy music.

 

[JulesMaximus]

If sleeping will keep you from posting, we all benefit.

LOL! :biggrin:

 

[mammador]

I don't like Muslims, younger people, or those with shallow interests.

how can they "teach me something"?

 

[Linflas]

The only people that spend money on music are 9 year old's on their parents Itune accounts. It's no wonder music sucks.

I doubt that has anything to do with it considering that artists getting paid royalties on music written by them is a model that did not become established until the 1800's with the sales of paper copyright protected sheet music. Royalties paid by people purchasing recordings of the artists themselves performing a work evolved from the invention of the gramophone a mere 100 years ago yet much of the catalog of what is considered truly great music from Baroque and Classical periods came from composers that at best were commissioned to produce pieces and paid a fee a single time.

 

[Raduque]

However, tremble with fear if you disagree and STFU, because it's SCIENCE, bitches..

 

[pelov]

Popular music sucks popularly.

That sort of degradation generally occurs when "music" transitions from an art form appreciated by the high-nosed fart-sniffing crownd to teenagers and assclowns.

I don't like high-nosed farts and assclowns. What have they to teach me?

 

[BudAshes]

Hi, I'm Ironwing and I, I..., I still buy music.

So you are the one that bought 10 million katy perry downloads?

 

[Perknose]

I don't like high-nosed farts and assclowns. What have they to teach me?

Dumb.

I don't like Muslims, younger people, or those with shallow interests.

how can they "teach me something"?

Dumberer.

My, what tenacious "D's" you are!

One thing you both could stand to be taught is some basic reading comprehension.

The sentence wasn't "who" you don't like, it was "what" you don't like, and it was said on this radio discussion, in passing, as a reference to the fact that listening to an entire album, which can always contain songs you may not like as much, can actually broaden your overall musical horizons in the long run, and thereby teach you something.

 

[LurkerPrime]

I think all the nickelback songs may be scewing the results.

 

[kage69]

If sleeping will keep you from posting, we all benefit.

I have the sudden desire to buy you a beer.

 

[Perknose]

I have the sudden desire to buy you a beer.

Just one? I mean, we are talking about me posting often enough to keep SE from being awake enough to ever post here again! :awe:

 

[MrColin]

. . . can teach you something.

Music. Homogeneity. The old practice of listening to an entire album on vinyl vs. nothing but singles purchased (cough) one by one.

I'm listening to a fascinating (to me) discussion about the loss of intricacy and range and diversity in modern popular music versus even just 10-20 years ago, let alone going back to the sixties or seventies.

If you have access to Radio Times with Marty Moss-Coane on NPR and you have the desire and the attention span to listen to her talk with music writer and musician TOM MOON, and long-time Grammy Award-winning recording engineer and music producer, PHIL NICOLO, to hear patterns of song structure over the last several decades.

Hey, I'm a certified fossil geezer who's fallen asleep up in the cheap seats. So, what do I know, right?

But these guys can make a far better case that they do know what they're talking about, and if you take the time to listen to them discuss this subject, complete with a ton of recordings used as examples, I think you'll find it well worth your time.

The discussion was prompted by a recent scientific study published by:



It's just a discussion, albeit a damn interesting one featuring two highly informed and passionate industry insiders who marshall a ton of great muscial examples to make their points, but don't stress if you think this is some boomer assault on your cultural values.

Take it for what it is: Opinion meant to provoke discourse.

However, tremble with fear if you disagree and STFU, because it's SCIENCE, bitches..

I don't like Gangam style, or anything autotuned, or country newer than 1980, or VanHagar, or, or or, so much. I like that science kind of explains why.

Oddly, I do like Dubstep, I just don't think there's enough there to call it a genre, two or three songs if that, but not a whole genre.

 

[Perknose]

I don't like Gangam style, or anything autotuned, or country newer than 1980, or VanHagar, or, or or, so much. I like that science kind of explains why.

I really like and appreciate Psy's catchy and smartly subversive sty-lee. The do0d deserves whatever fame and fortune comes his way here, imho.

And I love a ton of alt-country singer-songwriters. Male and female both, it's a deep list. Collectively, they have put out some of the best, most soulful and true stuff going.

And I don't hate Sammy Hagar, I'm just not into Van Halen before or after David Lee as much as some others here, or that much at all.

That said, autotune is obviously a work of the debbil!

 

[BoberFett]

Hi, I'm Ironwing and I, I..., I work out. I'm sexy and I know it.

Like he said, you're the reason music sucks.

 

[pelov]

Dumb.

Quote because you missed it

Popular music sucks popularly.

That sort of degradation generally occurs when "music" transitions from an art form appreciated by the high-nosed fart-sniffing crowd to teenagers and assclowns.

I don't like high-nosed farts and assclowns. What have they to teach me?

There's a meaning or two in there. A bit convoluted and obscure, certainly, but nevertheless meaningful

 

[Perknose]

Quote because you missed it




There's a meaning or two in there. A bit convoluted and obscure, certainly, but nevertheless meaningful

Ahhh, ok!

 

[nanette1985]

If you ever get to hear Walter/Wendy Carlos speak on this subject, jump on it. Much more awesome. Sadly Wendy doesn't speak very often - she gets too harassed about the transgender thing. A great pity, she's amazing.

 

[BurnItDwn]

The state of music these days is quite sad.
It's an "industry" much more than an "art."

There are real artists out there, but, the industry usually treats them like property, uses and abuses them, and then they are all burnt out and doped up.

I think Steven Wilson may be a little bit pretentious, but, his loathing of Ipods and all that they stand for (which to him, is the commoditization of music. It's the "formulas" that the labels use to determine who will be their next star and who will make them money. Music is no longer an art. It is no longer something to make you feel. Instead, it's simply a product to be consumed.)

I blame the labels, but I also blame the way our society is set up. Many people dream of being "rock stars" because they want to be rich and famous, not because they are artists and that is the best way that they can express themselves. We emphasize the wrong things as the societal measuring stick for success.

 

[lxskllr]

The state of music these days is quite sad.
It's an "industry" much more than an "art."

There are real artists out there, but, the industry usually treats them like property, uses and abuses them, and then they are all burnt out and doped up.

I think Steven Wilson may be a little bit pretentious, but, his loathing of Ipods and all that they stand for (which to him, is the commoditization of music. It's the "formulas" that the labels use to determine who will be their next star and who will make them money. Music is no longer an art. It is no longer something to make you feel. Instead, it's simply a product to be consumed.)

I blame the labels, but I also blame the way our society is set up. Many people dream of being "rock stars" because they want to be rich and famous, not because they are artists and that is the best way that they can express themselves. We emphasize the wrong things as the societal measuring stick for success.

Look for indies, and I mean real indies. Stuff on YouTube, and Jamendo. listen to libre.fm... Fuck the big labels. For the most part they repackage the same shit over and over. It then gets put on commercial radio to be played over and over. You may not recognize the names, but who cares? Good music is good music, and it doesn't all come from the USA.

Aside from all that, big labels restrict your fair use rights in the names of the artists, who they happen to be fucking with a barbed wire dildo. Big labels are a drain on society, and retard progress. Starve the machine out of existence by not patronizing their trash.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Look for indies, and I mean real indies. Stuff on YouTube, and Jamendo. listen to libre.fm... Fuck the big labels. For the most part they repackage the same shit over and over. It then gets put on commercial radio to be played over and over. You may not recognize the names, but who cares? Good music is good music, and it doesn't all come from the USA.

Aside from all that, big labels restrict your fair use rights in the names of the artists, who they happen to be fucking with a barbed wire dildo. Big labels are a drain on society, and retard progress. Starve the machine out of existence by not patronizing their trash.

Yea, I listen to some bigger name bands (Opeth, Porcupine Tree, etc), but I listen a lot to local bands who aren't on labels, or when I'm in the city, I actually love listening to the various street musicians (especially in New Orleans, I need to go back there!)