What would you think of this PSU......

[jonnyGURU]

Just a question for you guys....

Is $200 a good price for an 800W power supply? Seems kind of high to me, but when there's 1000W power supplies on the market for $400, it's a question that needs asking.

Here's some of the details:

Four 12V rails. 20A on each. Total combined is 768W sustained, 840W peak.

The 800W rating is actually a sustained output with 115V input. Peak is 880W. With 230V input, the PSU does 1000W sustained and 1100 peak.

Efficiency is good, but not 80%+. I'd say 78% typical.

Truly independent rails, so there is no crossload issue.

Active power factor correction.

The housing is anodized aluminum and is only about 7" deep and is cooled with a pair of coaxial fans.

Thoughts?

 

[maluckey]

SO Johnny, I dying to hear the punchline!

You have much more experience with attempting to blow up other peoples PSU's than most, so if you are asking us....there must be a catch.

The only question that I have: I haven't seen (in my limited experience) multiple +12v rails that do not cross load at all. This could be a bad thing for those that extreme overclock...

 

[jonnyGURU]

It's more of a price vs. performance thing. I see most PSU's around the neighborhood of $100. The PSU I use sells for about $100.

Well.. was using... I stuck the SevenTeam ST-500EAZ in my rig last night. 😛

But anyhoo... crossload usually doesn't occur BECAUSE OF or between multiple 12V rails. That's because typically, 12V rails all come off of one 12V transformer. If you can properly isolate the 12V and the 5V, you can avoid crossloading altogether.

Even an Antec True Power can be made to not crossload. The typical line of thinking though is: ATX12V PSU should go in a ATX12V machine. ATX PSU's go in ATX machines. So manufacturers don't worry about it too much.

The other kind of crossload is low 5V crossloads. These can be avoided with a simple 10 or 20W resistor on the 5V rail. Unfortunatlely, that 10 or 20W dissipated as heat that is a hit against your efficiency, so that's not good.

The PSU I'm talking about has been crossloaded with both minimum and maximum 5V loads and the rails didn't budge. So it is a strong unit in that respect.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Several things come to mind.

Some ppl freak at the thought of an over the top PSU being very inefficient at low outputs. I like the Enhance ENP-5160GH because at 100~500W output it is 82+% efficient. This is a good thing.... Several of us have the Enhance ENS-0560G and it's efficiency jumps to the high mid-70s once output is around 250W.

So, how efficient is this monster at lower outputs.?
Is it modular? I think not with dual fans.
How well are the fans regulated for thermal/noise control?
180mm deep is no big deal for most case set-ups.
What kind of capacitors are inside? I hope no fudge-you, OST or GSC, you know the drill 😉
I imagine the cabling ends will be there to suit all future needs. It would be nice if something was offered to store them till future use. Say several velcro wraps that can be used to tuck the unused cabling out of the way.

$200 would not be that bad in this market if the above questions had conforting answers.

Sure would future proof most anyones power needs. Anodized aluminum case sounds like icing on the cake. Enermax has a unit with an aluminum case, eWiz has it at $250,iirc, and it's 650W.



...Galvanized

 

[n7]

It sounds like a better deal than mine.

What brand is it? Powmax? 😉

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Several things come to mind.

So, how efficient is this monster at lower outputs.?

Minimum 74%

Is it modular? I think not with dual fans.

No.

How well are the fans regulated for thermal/noise control?

Working on as quiet as possible while still keeping it cool. It has a very elaborate fan controller.

180mm deep is no big deal for most case set-ups.

I know. 😉

What kind of capacitors are inside? I hope no fudge-you, OST or GSC, you know the drill 😉

Actually, Teapos. Pre-tested. I can check on Nippon Chemi-Con, though.

I imagine the cabling ends will be there to suit all future needs. It would be nice if something was offered to store them till future use. Say several velcro wraps that can be used to tuck the unused cabling out of the way.

$200 would not be that bad in this market if the above questions had conforting answers.

Sure would future proof most anyones power needs. Anodized aluminum case sounds like icing on the cake. Enermax has a unit with an aluminum case, eWiz has it at $250,iirc, and it's 650W.

...Galvanized
[/quote]

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: n7
It sounds like a better deal than mine.

What brand is it? Powmax? 😉

If it was... and let's say that Powmax sourced from a reputable manufacturer they had never used in the past, would you still consider it even though it had the "Powmax" name on it?

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

It is a given, that Teapo do well in properly ventilated PSUs, so they are OK. PCP&C and Enhance use Teapo.

"I can check on Nippon Chemi-Con. though." What would they add to the cost?? $5.


...Galvanized

 

[Pythias]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
It's more of a price vs. performance thing. I see most PSU's around the neighborhood of $100. The PSU I use sells for about $100.

Well.. was using... I stuck the SevenTeam ST-500EAZ in my rig last night. 😛

But anyhoo... crossload usually doesn't occur BECAUSE OF or between multiple 12V rails. That's because typically, 12V rails all come off of one 12V transformer. If you can properly isolate the 12V and the 5V, you can avoid crossloading altogether.

Even an Antec True Power can be made to not crossload. The typical line of thinking though is: ATX12V PSU should go in a ATX12V machine. ATX PSU's go in ATX machines. So manufacturers don't worry about it too much.

The other kind of crossload is low 5V crossloads. These can be avoided with a simple 10 or 20W resistor on the 5V rail. Unfortunatlely, that 10 or 20W dissipated as heat that is a hit against your efficiency, so that's not good.

The PSU I'm talking about has been crossloaded with both minimum and maximum 5V loads and the rails didn't budge. So it is a strong unit in that respect.

Wow. I'd pay 200 bucks for that. If you could assure me that this was a random sample.

 

[JEDIYoda]

grrrr...and I just bought a PC Power & Cooling 1k for my next build.....grrrrrr

 

[skooma]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: n7
It sounds like a better deal than mine.

What brand is it? Powmax? 😉

If it was... and let's say that Powmax sourced from a reputable manufacturer they had never used in the past, would you still consider it even though it had the "Powmax" name on it?

Why not?

Anyway, I don't see the need for anything like this personally. Sure seems like a waste of $$

I'm not understanding how as cpu power requirements drop and gpu power requirements follow after this next gen of G80 and r600, that our PSU options grow unabashedly upwards.

I had an antec tpII 550w powering my x2 @ 2700 with a 7800gtx for a year, 24/7 loaded. Back when I got it, that was pretty hot stuff, definitely on the high end. And definitely has more of a power rewquirement than say, a conroe and a 7900gtx.

Yet, as we transition from 90nm to 65nm (cpu) and from 90 or 110nmto 80nm (gpu) we are getting all these 600W and above PSU's.

Seems to me we should be going in the opposite direction.

And yes, I understand some need sli or crossfire, but why do we need these behemoths with 600W+ on the 12v rails?

Anyway, seems like a nice PSU for what you're telling us. Perhaps jediyokel overpaid yet again. 😛

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: skooma

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: n7
It sounds like a better deal than mine.

What brand is it? Powmax? 😉

If it was... and let's say that Powmax sourced from a reputable manufacturer they had never used in the past, would you still consider it even though it had the "Powmax" name on it?

Why not?

Anyway, I don't see the need for anything like this personally. Sure seems like a waste of $$

I'm not understanding how as cpu power requirements drop and gpu power requirements follow after this next gen of G80 and r600, that our PSU options grow unabashedly upwards.

I had an antec tpII 550w powering my x2 @ 2700 with a 7800gtx for a year, 24/7 loaded. Back when I got it, that was pretty hot stuff, definitely on the high end. And definitely has more of a power rewquirement than say, a conroe and a 7900gtx.

Yet, as we transition from 90nm to 65nm (cpu) and from 90 or 110nmto 80nm (gpu) we are getting all these 600W and above PSU's.

Seems to me we should be going in the opposite direction.

And yes, I understand some need sli or crossfire, but why do we need these behemoths with 600W+ on the 12v rails?

Anyway, seems like a nice PSU for what you're telling us. Perhaps jediyokel overpaid yet again. 😛

I agree. GPU's shouldn't be pulling us in this direction. But the GPU manufacturers are more concerned with performance than efficiency.

Scary, but a pair of X1900's REQUIRE a PSU with at least 468W (39A) on the 12V rails, just to work problem free with respectable FPS with all eye candy on. That's a lot of freakin' power!

Such a PSU should be proposed in two flavors:

One that is for "gamers" that uses a standard ATX12V rail arrangement, but puts each PCI-e on their own 12V rail.

Another would be SSI that put each CPU on it's own rail and PCI-e one on it's own rail. This one would be most appropriate for dual or quad CPU systems that probably would not have SLI/Crossfire. PCI-e would go on 12V2 with CPU2 so it could still be used with an SLI rig, but using only the four pin +12V connector is recommended.

 

[Howard]

Yes, I'd say that's a good price. Wouldn't be a super hot deal (not for 800W), but a good price nonetheless.

I assume you have it in your hands right now?

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: skooma

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: n7
It sounds like a better deal than mine.

What brand is it? Powmax? 😉

If it was... and let's say that Powmax sourced from a reputable manufacturer they had never used in the past, would you still consider it even though it had the "Powmax" name on it?

Why not?

Anyway, I don't see the need for anything like this personally. Sure seems like a waste of $$

I'm not understanding how as cpu power requirements drop and gpu power requirements follow after this next gen of G80 and r600, that our PSU options grow unabashedly upwards.

I had an antec tpII 550w powering my x2 @ 2700 with a 7800gtx for a year, 24/7 loaded. Back when I got it, that was pretty hot stuff, definitely on the high end. And definitely has more of a power rewquirement than say, a conroe and a 7900gtx.

Yet, as we transition from 90nm to 65nm (cpu) and from 90 or 110nmto 80nm (gpu) we are getting all these 600W and above PSU's.

Seems to me we should be going in the opposite direction.

And yes, I understand some need sli or crossfire, but why do we need these behemoths with 600W+ on the 12v rails?

Anyway, seems like a nice PSU for what you're telling us. Perhaps jediyokel overpaid yet again. 😛

I agree. GPU's shouldn't be pulling us in this direction. But the GPU manufacturers are more concerned with performance than efficiency.

Scary, but a pair of X1900's REQUIRE a PSU with at least 468W (39A) on the 12V rails, just to work problem free with respectable FPS with all eye candy on. That's a lot of freakin' power!

~20A for the video cards, ~5-12A for the CPU, ~0.75A per HD, ~1A per optical drive, ~3-5A for the mobo... a minimal Conroe E6600- or X2-based gaming rig wouldn't take more than ~34A, I should think.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
It is a given, that Teapo do well in properly ventilated PSUs, so they are OK. PCP&C and Enhance use Teapo.

"I can check on Nippon Chemi-Con. though." What would they add to the cost?? $5.


...Galvanized

That's the key: Ventillation. That's a reason why we see so many Antec failures.

You're very good about guestimating cost. Nippon's would be about $5 more over all. But lead time on an order to Nippon is two weeks. 🙁

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Howard
Yes, I'd say that's a good price. Wouldn't be a super hot deal (not for 800W), but a good price nonetheless.

Well... What's comparible? I can't find a lot of 800W's. Lots of 700W's, a 750, and 850 and then they jump to 1kW for twice the price.

I mean, if I could get a PSU with 64A sustained on the combined 12's with 115V input and better efficiency (80% typical) for $200 or less, I'd chuck this in the garbage right now. 😉

I assume you have it in your hands right now?

Yeah... You could assume that. 😛

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Howard
Yes, I'd say that's a good price. Wouldn't be a super hot deal (not for 800W), but a good price nonetheless.

Well... What's comparible? I can't find a lot of 800W's. Lots of 700W's, a 750, and 850 and then they jump to 1kW for twice the price.

I mean, if I could get a PSU with 64A sustained on the combined 12's with 115V input and better efficiency (80% typical) for $200 or less, I'd chuck this in the garbage right now. 😉

I'm extrapolating. 😉

Are you under an NDA?

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Howard
Yes, I'd say that's a good price. Wouldn't be a super hot deal (not for 800W), but a good price nonetheless.

Well... What's comparible? I can't find a lot of 800W's. Lots of 700W's, a 750, and 850 and then they jump to 1kW for twice the price.

I mean, if I could get a PSU with 64A sustained on the combined 12's with 115V input and better efficiency (80% typical) for $200 or less, I'd chuck this in the garbage right now. 😉

I'm extrapolating. 😉

Are you under an NDA?

I'm under better judgement. 😉

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: skooma

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: n7
It sounds like a better deal than mine.

What brand is it? Powmax? 😉

If it was... and let's say that Powmax sourced from a reputable manufacturer they had never used in the past, would you still consider it even though it had the "Powmax" name on it?

Why not?

Anyway, I don't see the need for anything like this personally. Sure seems like a waste of $$

I'm not understanding how as cpu power requirements drop and gpu power requirements follow after this next gen of G80 and r600, that our PSU options grow unabashedly upwards.

I had an antec tpII 550w powering my x2 @ 2700 with a 7800gtx for a year, 24/7 loaded. Back when I got it, that was pretty hot stuff, definitely on the high end. And definitely has more of a power rewquirement than say, a conroe and a 7900gtx.

Yet, as we transition from 90nm to 65nm (cpu) and from 90 or 110nmto 80nm (gpu) we are getting all these 600W and above PSU's.

Seems to me we should be going in the opposite direction.

And yes, I understand some need sli or crossfire, but why do we need these behemoths with 600W+ on the 12v rails?

Anyway, seems like a nice PSU for what you're telling us. Perhaps jediyokel overpaid yet again. 😛

Actually depends on what over pay means to you!
If over pay means you have to ask your parents for your allowance to buy PC parts then I guess you would be correct in think that a 1k PC Power & Cooling is too expensive.
Or....
If you had a crappy job and was forced to buy low end parts for your PC then I guess you could call the PC Power & Cooling PSU too expensive!

Until I came to these forums I was using whatever power supply would work...
Then one day I had issues with my PSU after connecting another fan.
I started getting burps on my screen, sudden reboots for no reason.
Thus started myn search for a top of the line PSU...
I had looked at SinTek - mainly becuase they were a new company and I liked there product.
I had also looked at PC Power & Cooling but at the time I wanted a modular PC and Sin tek filled the bill...but...
I did about 3 hrs research one night and I found...

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1693436&enterthread=y&arctab=y

I have been doing some research on some other forums......Look at this....interesting huh??
500watts--
http://www.mgecompany.com/xg/products_powersupplies_vortec500.php

http://www.sin-tek.com/sintek-products-sintek500sli.htm

600watts

http://www.mgecompany.com/xg/products_powersupplies_vortec600.php

http://www.sin-tek.com/sintek-products-sintek600sli.htm

Also according to what I read in another forum....the box has NO UL approval....could lead back to those knobs or current adjusters...

Interesting huh?

yet--here is a glowing review on the Vortec 500watt....

Yet with that said......to be continued....hehehee....

I was also looking at OCZ and Ultra -mainly I liked the way the Ultra looked and the PSU specs were not bad at all...but I had some sense talked into me by GY and Zepper at the time!
Had I known johnnyGURU at the time I am sure he would have talked some sense into me also...
JBDan also was a huge help.....where ever he went to...
So I ended up with the PC Power & Cooling 510 Turbo Deluxe.
This 1k will be my 3rd PSU from these people.
The other 2 are in different riggs!
As I have been told many times - this brand speaks for itself.
The specs on the 1k are just awesome.
I am now in a waiting mode for the Conroe to come out.
But thats another story.


We all have a certain amount of brand loyaltie.
I will be honest though if I had bought an Antec and not had a lick of problems like many Antec owners I would be buying Antec again.

It makes alot of sense to stick with the brand that works for you!!

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Howard
Yes, I'd say that's a good price. Wouldn't be a super hot deal (not for 800W), but a good price nonetheless.

Well... What's comparible? I can't find a lot of 800W's. Lots of 700W's, a 750, and 850 and then they jump to 1kW for twice the price.

I mean, if I could get a PSU with 64A sustained on the combined 12's with 115V input and better efficiency (80% typical) for $200 or less, I'd chuck this in the garbage right now. 😉

I'm extrapolating. 😉

Are you under an NDA?

I'm under better judgement. 😉

You mean, if you let this leak you won't get any more toys? 😀

 

[JEDIYoda]

actually I believe JohnnyGURU already hinted at something like this in a previous thread...

 

[jonnyGURU]

I did? 😕

No.. This is the first time I've been able to test finished samples and have an actual cost on paper.

It's that cost that's making me a little reluctant and considering going back to work as a Grease Monkey. 😉

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
It is a given, that Teapo do well in properly ventilated PSUs, so they are OK. PCP&C and Enhance use Teapo.

"I can check on Nippon Chemi-Con. though." What would they add to the cost?? $5.


...Galvanized

That's the key: Ventillation. That's a reason why we see so many Antec failures.

You're very good about guestimating cost. Nippon's would be about $5 more over all. But lead time on an order to Nippon is two weeks. 🙁

Disagree: The key is Fuhjyyu (fudge-you) crapacitors 😉 , then low air flow.

Sounds good, now post pics. Wait the two weeks for Nippon Chemi-Con. Seasonic is using Jap caps in thier marketing.

...Galvanized

 

[skooma]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Actually depends on what over pay means to you!
If over pay means you have to ask your parents for your allowance to buy PC parts then I guess you would be correct in think that a 1k PC Power & Cooling is too expensive.
Or....
If you had a crappy job and was forced to buy low end parts for your PC then I guess you could call the PC Power & Cooling PSU too expensive!

Overpaying has nothing to do with how much you earn. Anyhoo, I apologize to jonnyG for goiing slightly OT with that remark

Scary, but a pair of X1900's REQUIRE a PSU with at least 468W (39A) on the 12V rails, just to work problem free with respectable FPS with all eye candy on. That's a lot of freakin' power!

Yeah, I know, its brutal. Then again, theres the 7950gx2. That pulls less power than the 1900xtx in crossfire. And both NV and ATI have said that power draws will fall after this next gen, the g80 and r600. I cringe thinking about the people installing those 300w "pci-e space heater/psus" in their 5-1/4 drive bay 😛

Anyway, I'll be interested to see what you're holding in your hand... Is it really a Powmax :laugh:

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: skooma

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Actually depends on what over pay means to you!
If over pay means you have to ask your parents for your allowance to buy PC parts then I guess you would be correct in think that a 1k PC Power & Cooling is too expensive.
Or....
If you had a crappy job and was forced to buy low end parts for your PC then I guess you could call the PC Power & Cooling PSU too expensive!

Overpaying has nothing to do with how much you earn. Anyhoo, I apologize to jonnyG for goiing slightly OT with that remark

Scary, but a pair of X1900's REQUIRE a PSU with at least 468W (39A) on the 12V rails, just to work problem free with respectable FPS with all eye candy on. That's a lot of freakin' power!

Yeah, I know, its brutal. Then again, theres the 7950gx2. That pulls less power than the 1900xtx in crossfire. And both NV and ATI have said that power draws will fall after this next gen, the g80 and r600.

Link?

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee

Disagree: The key is Fuhjyyu (fudge-you) crapacitors 😉 , then low air flow.

Well... you know, I try to be nice, fair... diplomatic and all.

Sounds good, now post pics. Wait the two weeks for Nippon Chemi-Con. Seasonic is using Jap caps in thier marketing.

...Galvanized

I'll see. Maybe that could be another selling point. 😉