What would you say if

[Bleep]

You were fluent in Arabic and went to other countries to help the goverment and put yourself at risk only to come back to the US and have people call you a trator or a liberal piece of sh t. Or to have a person on this board PM you and ask what race you are, should race have any place in patriotism? Just because you are a Democrat? Most on this board have not done anything to help their country but do not hesitate to call others trators, communists, and continue to question other members patirotism because they have liberal ideals?
Do you republicans think that this kind of action or words do anything to help the cause of America and to bring all of us closer rather than driving a bigger wedge between the 2 factions that are at loggerheads because of the inibility to even consider the other side?

 

[Witling]

To answer one question, I think that a person's total makeup has something to do with their position on issues. Thus, when I participate in a discussion on the black/white race issue, I identify myself as a (boy, wouldn't I like to say middle aged) 58 year old white male. It may make a difference in the way I feel. It would be nonsense for me to talk about how the cops oppress me. If we were talking face to face we'd quickly make some judgments about each other. We're all sophisiticated enough (well, most of us are) to realize that a person being Arab or Jewish, for example, doesn't mean that they're incapable of being objective. But it's really hard for me to believe that if you've lived over in the Middle East on either the Palestinian or the Israeli side, having other people try to kill you doesn't color your viewpoint. I've never been stopped for "driving while black," but I'll bet I'd have a different attitude if I had. These things are relevant. Not determinative, but relevant.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I don't think that I would call anyone a traitor for putting themselves at risk...unless they were fighting against the US. The human shields are fools(IMO), but I wouldn't neccessarily call them traitors if they were just trying to be activists.
Race doesn't have much to do with this issue IMO.
Well as to your Republican question - it could and should be asked of the other side too. Does all the hate spew help the cause of America - no neccessarily. Does it bring us closer - no. Does it drive a wedge - yes. I think that alot of the hatefull spew that gets tossed around is just emotional rhetoric and isn't meant to be entirely malicious - although some things might fall into that category. I don't think Liberals are set on destroying the US, I just think that alot of their positions point us in that direction - just as people think that "Conservatives" are pointing the US in the wrong direction. All I know is that my thoughts, principles, and ideals are the basis of my positions. Others have thier own and that is fine.

CkG

 

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Originally posted by: Bleep
You were fluent in Arabic and went to other countries to help the goverment and put yourself at risk only to come back to the US and have people call you a trator or a liberal piece of sh t. Or to have a person on this board PM you and ask what race you are, should race have any place in patriotism? Just because you are a Democrat? Most on this board have not done anything to help their country but do not hesitate to call others trators, communists, and continue to question other members patirotism because they have liberal ideals?
Do you republicans think that this kind of action or words do anything to help the cause of America and to bring all of us closer rather than driving a bigger wedge between the 2 factions that are at loggerheads because of the inibility to even consider the other side?

What do you consider, "Helping your country?" What proof do you have the most board member have done nothing to help their country?

 

[Gaard]

Are you saying you disagree with him Tabb? I agree it's not something that he can know to be fact, but I would bet he's probably right, wouldn't you?

 

[beyoku]

i know what your saying, its seems as if the patriotic people in the country are actuall the ones that go out and get in the streets and protest. When they dont agree they actuall do something. On the other hand the people that are on the other side of the coin dont do anything to express their patriotism. They dont rally, dont dont support, they dont give money, they dont do anything. All they do is critisize the other side for actually going out and being real patriots. It was so wierd to see a pro-war rally. Those that werent actually fake were very, very small. And very very few people actually went to the service JUST to go to war. Those that did support it just sat at home, safe, other people were doing their part out in the street.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: beyoku
i know what your saying, its seems as if the patriotic people in the country are actuall the ones that go out and get in the streets and protest. When they dont agree they actuall do something. On the other hand the people that are on the other side of the coin dont do anything to express their patriotism. They dont rally, dont dont support, they dont give money, they dont do anything. All they do is critisize the other side for actually going out and being real patriots. It was so wierd to see a pro-war rally. Those that werent actually fake were very, very small. And very very few people actually went to the service JUST to go to war. Those that did support it just sat at home, safe, other people were doing their part out in the street.

Nice try Hillary.
I went to a pro-America rally. It wasn't "small" and infact was larger than any of the anti-war protests that were attempted around here. For you to sit there and imply that the "real" patriots are the ones out protesting- is absurd. protesting doesn't make one "patriotic". It is a right, not a duty. I don't feel the anti-war protesters are unpatriotic - but I also don't think they can claim that their protesting is somehow more patriotic than anything else someone does. I think the anti-war protesters were/are confused and angry, but unpatriotic? - not really. They are just excercising their right to protest.

CkG

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: beyoku
i know what your saying, its seems as if the patriotic people in the country are actuall the ones that go out and get in the streets and protest. When they dont agree they actuall do something. On the other hand the people that are on the other side of the coin dont do anything to express their patriotism. They dont rally, dont dont support, they dont give money, they dont do anything. All they do is critisize the other side for actually going out and being real patriots. It was so wierd to see a pro-war rally. Those that werent actually fake were very, very small. And very very few people actually went to the service JUST to go to war. Those that did support it just sat at home, safe, other people were doing their part out in the street.

Nice try Hillary.
I went to a pro-America rally. It wasn't "small" and infact was larger than any of the anti-war protests that were attempted around here. For you to sit there and imply that the "real" patriots are the ones out protesting- is absurd. protesting doesn't make one "patriotic". It is a right, not a duty. I don't feel the anti-war protesters are unpatriotic - but I also don't think they can claim that their protesting is somehow more patriotic than anything else someone does. I think the anti-war protesters were/are confused and angry, but unpatriotic? - not really. They are just excercising their right to protest.

CkG

Hillary LOL. Im just making a point.......i see arguments for and against and those for the war say "why dont you go over there and fight." When really they should be there themselves. I think the ultamiate demonstration against a war is to go out and protest against it. So when i go to the rally i am supporting my side. On the other hand those that are for the war DO NOT make any sacrifices, yes there are FEW that go to the war cause they support it, but must have already been signed up and they are just sheep. So what do the pro war people do. The dont join, the dont send money, the dont even rally. So in a sense i dont really see them doing anything for their side besides paying taxes and talking in message boards. And im not sure what "rally" you went to but it was probable paid for and sponsored by clearchannel. We already know that they had to PAY for rallies. And im sure you saw how BIG the Pro-peace rallies were, the were the biggest in history. I just dont think people are patriotic in the true sense of the word. And i think the real patriots are the people that take action instead of sitting around at home with their thum up their butt talking about how others need to be going to a war, or NOT saying something "bad" about the president, or not critisizing or etc.

by the way, if you went to a prowar rally why didnt you sign up to go to war? i know why i didnt. Did they even have recruiters at the rally?

 

[Witling]

CadGuy, "confused and angry?" I'll go with angry. I went to Viet Nam for what proved to be a lie. The Bush administration clearly ignored and manipulated evidence to get what they wanted. Angry? you bet! A serious question: Do you think it's a coincidence that the anti-war demonstrations started in October, the month that Congress issued Bush a blank check to go to war? Confused? Really, it takes a lot of huevos to say that the anti-war faction is confused. Wasn't it the administration that had the "excuse of the week" for going to war? Wasn't it the administration that implied there was a link between Sadaam and Al Queda? A link now explicitly denied by both Bush and Rumsfeld. Amazing how most of the U.S. population still believes there was a link. Wasn't it the administration that lead us to believe -- or a least did not controvert -- the proposition that we'd be welcomed in Iraq? I mean, it wasn't us anti-war guys that said there were weapons of mass destruction. Confused indeed!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

beyoku - You are sadly mistaken if you think I went to a "pro-war" rally. It was not such a rally. You seem to think that the only "activist" position one can take is to either sign up to go fight, or protest it. That simply is not true. To insinuate that people who support the war aren't "as patriotic" as the ones who are protesting it - is asinine. You are trying to insinuate that protesters are somehow making a sacrifice by protesting Which just isn't true. The rally I went to was a "Rally for America". It was NOT a paid rally - and it was larger than ANY rally the anti-war people could muster around here. pics - be carefull the java is messed up and I haven't fixed it. No, there weren't recruiters there

Patriotism isn't defined by you expressing your right to protest. It's no more patriotic than a non-active supporter or non-active protester. Protesting is a right - it will not and should not define one's patriotism. You and Hillary will NOT redifine patriotism because YOU think you aren't included. Being patriotic is supporting your country and wishing for it to go down the right path - wether that be for or against the war. Neither is more or less patriotic than the other. Now there are things done and said by some that is unpatriotic though

Whitling - yes the antis are confused IMO. They don't seem to remember or understand history behind why we are even dealing with Saddam today. You seem to also be confused because you state that the Admin had an "excuse of the week" which is entirely false - it's only that you and others only sought to dwell on one issue at a time instead of all of them like was stated before the war. There may not be a direct link between Saddam and 9/11, but there are links between Saddam and terror - please don't forget that.
WMDs - oh boy, where to start...Hmmm maybe with the fact that he had them, used them, and the ceasefire terms included him identifying, recording and destroying them - ALL of which he did NOT do. You can whine all you want but Saddam did not do what he promised he would do - period.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
The rally I went to was a "Rally for America". It was NOT a paid rally - and it was larger than ANY rally the anti-war people could muster around here. pics - be carefull the java is messed up and I haven't fixed it. No, there weren't recruiters there

CkG

Wow, what an amazing spectacle of white male flag-wavers. And to think, I used to joke about the flag-wavers around here, not realizing they were actually out there doing exactly that. What a great way to 'prove' your 'patriotism.'

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
The rally I went to was a "Rally for America". It was NOT a paid rally - and it was larger than ANY rally the anti-war people could muster around here. pics - be carefull the java is messed up and I haven't fixed it. No, there weren't recruiters there

CkG

Wow, what an amazing spectacle of white male flag-wavers. And to think, I used to joke about the flag-wavers around here, not realizing they were actually out there doing exactly that. What a great way to 'prove' your 'patriotism.'

maybe you can't see well. - I'm sorry.

I never said it "proved" patriotism - infact I don't think it "proves" one's patriotism any more than those who were at the anti-war protests.

CkG

PS - this is Des Moines, Iowa - not a hugely diverse population around here I could dig up pictures of the anti-war rallies from around here too. They are mostly just a small group of hippie types - oh and one whacked reverend who thinks getting arrested over and over makes him a martyr

I think there was a rally of about 16 people protesting the war the same day as this - they were at a local reserve base.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
The rally I went to was a "Rally for America". It was NOT a paid rally - and it was larger than ANY rally the anti-war people could muster around here. pics - be carefull the java is messed up and I haven't fixed it. No, there weren't recruiters there

CkG

Wow, what an amazing spectacle of white male flag-wavers. And to think, I used to joke about the flag-wavers around here, not realizing they were actually out there doing exactly that. What a great way to 'prove' your 'patriotism.'

maybe you can't see well. - I'm sorry.

I never said it "proved" patriotism - infact I don't think it "proves" one's patriotism any more than those who were at the anti-war protests.

CkG

PS - this is Des Moines, Iowa - not a hugely diverse population around here I could dig up pictures of the anti-war rallies from around here too. They are mostly just a small group of hippie types - oh and one whacked reverend who thinks getting arrested over and over makes him a martyr

I think there was a rally of about 16 people protesting the war the same day as this - they were at a local reserve base.

Hey maybe it's just me, but I have a problem with people that march and take to the streets in favor of war vs. those who do so for peace. Big difference in my book.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
The rally I went to was a "Rally for America". It was NOT a paid rally - and it was larger than ANY rally the anti-war people could muster around here. pics - be carefull the java is messed up and I haven't fixed it. No, there weren't recruiters there

CkG

Wow, what an amazing spectacle of white male flag-wavers. And to think, I used to joke about the flag-wavers around here, not realizing they were actually out there doing exactly that. What a great way to 'prove' your 'patriotism.'

maybe you can't see well. - I'm sorry.

I never said it "proved" patriotism - infact I don't think it "proves" one's patriotism any more than those who were at the anti-war protests.

CkG

PS - this is Des Moines, Iowa - not a hugely diverse population around here I could dig up pictures of the anti-war rallies from around here too. They are mostly just a small group of hippie types - oh and one whacked reverend who thinks getting arrested over and over makes him a martyr

I think there was a rally of about 16 people protesting the war the same day as this - they were at a local reserve base.

Hey maybe it's just me, but I have a problem with people that march and take to the streets in favor of war vs. those who do so for peace. Big difference in my book.

Yep - can't read either

"Rally for America". It was not a "pro-war" rally. There were people there that didn't support the war(I talked with them) but wanted to support our troops. I didn't take any pictures of them - but they had anti-war shirts on. They were civil and so were we - because we were there for a common purpose - to support America and her troops regardless of being anti/pro war.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Well, from perusing the "Glenn Beck Program - Rally for America" web site - it certainly LOOKS like a pro-war rally. Duck test, remember?

I'll betcha those in attendance were overwhelmingly in favor of the war. Many of the stories on the page I reference above, include anecdotes about anti-war protesters showing up and promptly being arrested or forced to leave. Maybe your particular rally was a bastion of free-thinking on the subject, but it doesn't look that way elsewhere.

The overwhelming message of these rallies seem to be: Those anti-war protestors are out there in droves, we better organize and make sure our message is heard too. So, yes Cad, the rallies are coming off as a pro-war demonstration to countermand the anti-war sentiment here and abroad.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Well, from perusing the "Glenn Beck Program - Rally for America" web site - it certainly LOOKS like a pro-war rally. Duck test, remember?

I'll betcha those in attendance were overwhelmingly in favor of the war. Many of the stories on the page I reference above, include anecdotes about anti-war protesters showing up and promptly being arrested or forced to leave. Maybe your particular rally was a bastion of free-thinking on the subject, but it doesn't look that way elsewhere.

The overwhelming message of these rallies seem to be: Those anti-war protestors are out there in droves, we better organize and make sure our message is heard too. So, yes Cad, the rallies are coming off as a pro-war demonstration to countermand the anti-war sentiment here and abroad.

Nope. The rally was for the Troops.

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

dp

 

[DealMonkey]

Sure, whatever you say Cad

 

[her209]

Like the tax cut$, thi$ war will really only benefit the people at the top.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: her209
Like the tax cut$, thi$ war will really only benefit the people at the top.

Well, since the tax-cuts didn't ONLY benefit the people at the top can we just assume that your other assertion is wrong too?

John Kerry on Sunday Night:

When Governor Dean just said, "What middle-class tax cut," let me tell him what middle-class tax cut.

The Burnett (ph) family in Colfax, Iowa, earned $70,000. But under his plan, they are going to pay $2,178 more in taxes because they lose the child credit to raise their children, they pay a penalty for being married again because he puts it back, and they lose the 10 percent bracket, as everybody else here does. So you begin to be taxed at 15 percent, not 10 percent.

CkG

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Well, from perusing the "Glenn Beck Program - Rally for America" web site - it certainly LOOKS like a pro-war rally. Duck test, remember?

I'll betcha those in attendance were overwhelmingly in favor of the war. Many of the stories on the page I reference above, include anecdotes about anti-war protesters showing up and promptly being arrested or forced to leave. Maybe your particular rally was a bastion of free-thinking on the subject, but it doesn't look that way elsewhere.

The overwhelming message of these rallies seem to be: Those anti-war protestors are out there in droves, we better organize and make sure our message is heard too. So, yes Cad, the rallies are coming off as a pro-war demonstration to countermand the anti-war sentiment here and abroad.

Nope. The rally was for the Troops.

CkG

Hahaha, do you realize how ignorant that statement is?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Well, from perusing the "Glenn Beck Program - Rally for America" web site - it certainly LOOKS like a pro-war rally. Duck test, remember?

I'll betcha those in attendance were overwhelmingly in favor of the war. Many of the stories on the page I reference above, include anecdotes about anti-war protesters showing up and promptly being arrested or forced to leave. Maybe your particular rally was a bastion of free-thinking on the subject, but it doesn't look that way elsewhere.

The overwhelming message of these rallies seem to be: Those anti-war protestors are out there in droves, we better organize and make sure our message is heard too. So, yes Cad, the rallies are coming off as a pro-war demonstration to countermand the anti-war sentiment here and abroad.

Nope. The rally was for the Troops.

CkG

Hahaha, do you realize how ignorant that statement is?

Nope, not ignorant at all - because I attended it. Now who is ignorant?

CkG