What would it take for you to rebel against the US Government?

[CycloWizard]

not by government force.

by law...law that was legally voted into statute by our elected representatives....and signed into Law by the legally elected POTUS.

all of which...is legal

And how will that law be enforced? How is any law enforced?

 

[alchemize]

I said the same thing under Bush - any attempt to seize power beyond term limits. Real "police state" actions against US citizens. Wholesale suspending of any constitutional rights.

Also a severe enough action towards me/my family could set me off. It would have to be very severe - i.e. trying to seize my kids without a warrant, or fabricated pretenses.

 

[alchemize]

Right now, I feel kind of bad that I'm not rebelling violently against Congress. Most of these legislators need to die--they are war criminals and theives. They're stealing and they're breaking the law. They're simply a threat to our Safety and happiness.

It's that 420 that's slowing you down. Offsets the anarchist in you.

 

[paperfist]

Our checks and balances are riddled with corruption, but we are still in a position where it would be far easier to vote in better government than to mount an overthrow of one, though public apathy makes even the former a long shot.

Reflect back to the start of the Bush years, that's a whole lot of time of people trying to vote in a better government and failing miserably. The whole system is shot to the point where elections are bought and getting someone in office with a brain to put America first is just about dead.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

This would throw me into a rage. Religion is the domain of fools and idiots, and has no place in a modern nation. Everyone knows this.

Except, of course, the Texas education board.

This is still a wonderful country warts and all.

This. A lot of Americans seem to get carried away by the supposed oppression of your precious freedoms, but you have to remember you still have the biggest GDP in the world, you still have an extraordinarily high standard of living, and you can still basically do whatever you want as long as you don't impinge on others. You are extraordinarily privileged to be living the lives you have, and you seem to have forgotten that billions of people would do almost anything to have your place.

 

[IronWing]

I think if the rebels could find a spunky, sexy spokesmodel, that might help.

 

[paperfist]

Except, of course, the Texas education board.


This. A lot of Americans seem to get carried away by the supposed oppression of your precious freedoms, but you have to remember you still have the biggest GDP in the world, you still have an extraordinarily high standard of living, and you can still basically do whatever you want as long as you don't impinge on others. You are extraordinarily privileged to be living the lives you have, and you seem to have forgotten that billions of people would do almost anything to have your place.

There's always room for improvement and because we are a free nation we are allowed to express our displeasure with our leaders.

It's not like we were handed this great nation that billions of people would do almost anything for. A lot of blood has been spilled over time to have a free America and there are plenty of people both internally and externally that would like to change that. If the people of this country sat still long enough it's not impossible to think it could be transformed into China.

In another thread you said it's not as bad as we make it out to be. Well over the past decade starting with Bush (and probably before that) we seem to have lost a little bit year after year. 10 years ago you think it would be acceptable under the American way of life to put US Marines on trial for punching a terrorist? How about having your government wiretapping you without a warrant? How about a capitalistic government now buying car companies, bailing out banks who ran out of money?

That's all it takes, little by little, one step at a time and before you know it the place you call home doesn't look like it did....

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

There's always room for improvement and because we are a free nation we are allowed to express our displeasure with our leaders.

So then when the ruling party passes a law the opposition doesn't like, all the supporters of the opposition immediately start mumbling about a revolution? This isn't healthy, by any measure of the imagination.

10 years ago you think it would be acceptable under the American way of life to put US Marines on trial for punching a terrorist?

Can't make a judgment, sorry. This is obviously insufficient information. But, yes, given what you have told me, then yes. If the 'terrorist' was in US custody.

How about a capitalistic government now buying car companies, bailing out banks who ran out of money?

If it worked, does it matter? In any case, even a capitalistic government is not supposed to just let the markets do whatever they want. There has to be a certain degree of regulation. And if the government deems that if letting these companies sink is detrimental to the economy and citizenry, then it should.

How about having your government wiretapping you without a warrant?

I never heard about this...

 

[CADsortaGUY]

So then when the ruling party passes a law the opposition doesn't like, all the supporters of the opposition immediately start mumbling about a revolution? This isn't healthy, by any measure of the imagination.

Sorry, but you are in NZ and likely don't understand America. It's not about not liking what the temporary majority of elected officials do - it's the fact that what they are doing is UnAmerican as defined by being blatantly Unconstitutional. It's been going on far too long and many of us see this over-reach as going across the line. It needs to be stopped. If it doesn't stop it will lead to that which founded us as a Nation. That isn't a threat - it's merely the facts.

 

[First]

^ You keep saying things are unconstitutional yet left and right Supreme Courts continue to uphold everything from federal mandates to interstate commerce to executive memos on Congressional legislation. At a certain point you just have to come to grips with the reality that you don't really know anything about this "Constitution" that, for all intents and purposes, exists in a form you've invented in your imagination.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Sorry, but you are in NZ and likely don't understand America. It's not about not liking what the temporary majority of elected officials do - it's the fact that what they are doing is UnAmerican as defined by being blatantly Unconstitutional.

What do you understand by the term "American"?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

^ You keep saying things are unconstitutional yet left and right Supreme Courts continue to uphold everything from federal mandates to interstate commerce to executive memos on Congressional legislation. At a certain point you just have to come to grips with the reality that you don't really know anything about this "Constitution" that, for all intents and purposes, exists in a form you've invented in your imagination.

I'm a very good grip on reality. When it comes to the Constitution - you can suggest or try to claim all you want to but it just isn't there unless it's in black and white when it comes to the Constitution. It has been degraded(not by Amendments mind you) over time so ofcourse you can point to this or that and make claims but it doesn't mean you are correct when it comes to the Constitution.
Interstate Commerce is fine, however if you had half a clue you'd know that the HI insurance isn't Interstate Commerce. Also the LACK of commerce doesn't mean it can be mandated using the so-called "commerce" clause.

Do you have even the most rudimentary understanding of how the United States came to be? Do you have even the slightest clue on why and how the Constitution was constructed? Likely not if you think this current legislation is Constitutional. Sorry, but our school system failed you...so it's not necessarily your fault.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

What do you understand by the term "American"?

??

 

[Tristicus]

Nothing.
I'll do it right now.

 

[Harvey]

What would cause more trouble for me is if a constitutional amendment passed with popular approval. For example, what if the majority of the population decided to take away part of the Bill of Rights. Or what if the majority of the population wanted a religion to be state-mandated. At this point the question would become civil war or leaving the country. I'm not sure what I would do.

If any of that bullshit ever happened, that would be the revolution without any help from me.

We were lucky to get past the Bushwackos' attempts to to exactly that. If I that even was close to happening, I'd leave before it ever got that far for the same reason people fled Germany before WW II. I wouldn't want to be part of whatever they called a country full of tards that would destroy our Constitution or enact such laws.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

If any of that bullshit ever happened, that would be the revolution without any help from me. I'd leave before it ever got that far for the same reason as many people fled Germany before WW II. I wouldn't want to be part of whatever they called a country full of tards that would destroy our Constitution or enact such laws.

<-shocked face that Harvey would tuck tail and run instead of fighting for America and it's ideals...

As to Infohawk's what ifs - I'd fight for the Constitution. Hell, prohibition was overturned - it just needed people to stand up and fight for their freedom from the gov't.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

??

How can you say something is "UnAmerican" if you don't know what being American means?

 

[werepossum]

Removal of the electoral college.

Widespread gun confiscation.

Establishment of a state religion.

Abolishing of religion.

Hate crimes for dissenting views.

Government seizure of radio and/or television.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

How can you say something is "UnAmerican" if you don't know what being American means?

I am an American. You look to be from/in NZ who still has the British Queen holding your hand... Meh... to each their own.

 

[Ozoned]

I said the same thing under Bush - any attempt to seize power beyond term limits. Real "police state" actions against US citizens. Wholesale suspending of any constitutional rights.

Also a severe enough action towards me/my family could set me off. It would have to be very severe - i.e. trying to seize my kids without a warrant, or fabricated pretenses.

I worked for a short time as a child abuse enforcement officer. We spent a lot of time in training on the preferred method of fabricating pretenses for removing children at risk from their homes. That is why it was a short time.

Don't ever let them in your home, and never answer any questions without a lawyer present NO MATTER how simple it seems.

 

[Jaskalas]

What would it take for me?

I don't foresee the need to. Their divergence from reality knows no bounds, I just have to hope to survive the inevitable collapse. Either I'm wrong and there's nothing to be concerned about, or I'm right and they are the least of my concerns.

Either way, rebelling against a dying animal is the wrong action to take. Proper action is to prepare for the consequences of the loss.

 

[Noobtastic]

If the government adopted a European foreign policy toward Islamic dictatorship, and sold out historic and friendly allies for good, I'd be pretty pissed off.

But I don't think I would ever rebel against the US government. I'd probably just leave and move to some random island.

 

[woolfe9999]

I'm a very good grip on reality. When it comes to the Constitution - you can suggest or try to claim all you want to but it just isn't there unless it's in black and white when it comes to the Constitution. It has been degraded(not by Amendments mind you) over time so ofcourse you can point to this or that and make claims but it doesn't mean you are correct when it comes to the Constitution.

So far every self-described "Constitutionalist" that I've run into has made statements similar to this, without even the most rudimentary understanding of the history of the nation they live in. The Bill of Rights was hardly enforced at all through the late 18th century until the late 19th century. There wasn't even an exclusionary rule to preclude admission of evidence obtained pursuant to violations of the 4th and 5th amendment until the late 19th century. Prior to that, law enforcement could, and did, willfully violate these provisions on a routine basis because there were no real mechanisms of enforcement. The Bill of Rights basically existed only on paper for its first 100 years.

In 1798, 7 years after the Bill of Rights was made law, Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Acts. The Sedition Act made it a crime to criticize the government. That piece of legislation could never stand today. If it did, you could be thrown in jail for criticizing Obama on an internet discussion forum like this one. And you want to complain about expansionist interpretations of the commerce clause which may permit the government to require you to buy insurance or else face a small fine? Get real. This isn't about the Constitution. It's about the fact that you don't like government social programs. If it really was about the Constitution, you'd acknowledge that individuals are far freer from government today than they ever were during the nation's first 100 hundred years.

- wollf

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I am an American. You look to be from/in NZ who still has the British Queen holding your hand... Meh... to each their own.

Well then it won't be so hard to describe what being "UnAmerican" means, right?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Well then it won't be so hard to describe what being "UnAmerican" means, right?

Uhh... Your previous post didn't ask that. It didn't make sense so I put the "??".

The FORCED purchase of a product by the Federal gov't is unAmerican. It violates the Constitution both in letter and intent. "unAmerican" is that which goes against the principles articulated in the Constitution and the other founding documents. The United States of America was founded because your gov't(the British) were abusive, overbearing and did not allow us the representation and freedom we wanted.