What would a Palestinian state be like for gay people?

[aidanjm]

I'm wondering how support for a Palestinian state can be a progressive cause, when the Palestinian Authority and Hamas have a record of persecuting harrassing and/ or killing gay people. What would "human rights" for gay people look like in a Palestinian state? I suspect there would be none. I fail to understand why some liberals/ leftists are so gung-ho in their support for Palestinians and so anti-Israel. I think it is interesting that Israel is basically the only state in the entire Middle East where gay people have any rights and are left free to live their lives.

Gay in Palestine

Gay Rights Before Palestinian Statehood

"Are these the laws for which the Palestinian street is waiting? For us to give rights to homosexuals and to lesbians, a minority of perverts and the mentally and morally sick?" - Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas

 

[UglyCasanova]

Your troll post got no bites so you completely change the thread to something else lol?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: UglyCasanova
Your troll post got no bites so you completely change the thread to something else lol?

It wasn't a troll post. I just decided to go with another issue on my mind.

And thanks for your waste of time post in this thread. :roll:

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
It wasn't a troll post. I just decided to go with another issue on my mind.

England and Hollands' plans to deport gays to Iran to be executed in celebration of the Holocaust? Hokay.

To answer your new question though, I would imagine it would not be pretty. But also take the situation in the entire ME into context. Gay rights are probably really low on the totem pole (not dismissing gay rights, which I am an advocate of, just that in the grand scheme of things there are bigger fish to fry atm).

 

[Kadarin]

You're talking about Islamic culture here, where women are executed for defending themselves against rapists, and where they're also forced to burn to death rather than be allowed to escape a burning building without proper attire. You could not possibly ever imagine them being accepting of gay people.

They are barbarians, worthy of only derision, scorn, and carpet bombing.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
You're talking about Islamic culture here, where women are executed for defending themselves against rapists, and where they're also forced to burn to death rather than be allowed to escape a burning building without proper attire. You could not possibly ever imagine them being accepting of gay people.

They are barbarians, worthy of only derision, scorn, and carpet bombing.

go see a shrink, you have issues

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
You're talking about Islamic culture here, where women are executed for defending themselves against rapists, and where they're also forced to burn to death rather than be allowed to escape a burning building without proper attire. You could not possibly ever imagine them being accepting of gay people.

They are barbarians, worthy of only derision, scorn, and carpet bombing.

:roll:

 

[zendari]

What would a Cookie-monster state be like for the cookie?

 

[judasmachine]

We want a Palestinian state so that the people can possibly stop dying. Whether it be citizens in a Jerusalem mall, or kids in a Palestinian community. We have to take baby steps here, just to appease both sides enough for them to stop shooting and blowing each other up. We can pressure them for better human rights when they don't have bombs strapped to them. I know it's sad and it sounds like we are abandoning your group, but that isn't what is happening. We have to stop the war, then we can work on other things.

 

[Strk]

We just had an election where homosexuality was one of the major issues; so what's your point about a people who have been crammed into refugee camps and have never been particularly independent? You can swap quite a few American people's names with that quote you provided at the end. You could probably find a few just on this board.

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
We want a Palestinian state so that the people can possibly stop dying. Whether it be citizens in a Jerusalem mall, or kids in a Palestinian community. We have to take baby steps here, just to appease both sides enough for them to stop shooting and blowing each other up. We can pressure them for better human rights when they don't have bombs strapped to them. I know it's sad and it sounds like we are abandoning your group, but that isn't what is happening. We have to stop the war, then we can work on other things.

Unfortunately this is completely correct. You can't fix everything in the world at once, you've gotta work step by step. And while the constant warring is going on, it's near impossible to focus the issue on anything else.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
You're talking about Islamic culture here, where women are executed for defending themselves against rapists, and where they're also forced to burn to death rather than be allowed to escape a burning building without proper attire. You could not possibly ever imagine them being accepting of gay people.

They are barbarians, worthy of only derision, scorn, and carpet bombing.

go see a shrink, you have issues

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
You're talking about Islamic culture here, where women are executed for defending themselves against rapists, and where they're also forced to burn to death rather than be allowed to escape a burning building without proper attire. You could not possibly ever imagine them being accepting of gay people.

They are barbarians, worthy of only derision, scorn, and carpet bombing.

I would have to agree. As mean as it sounds, it seems to be the only way to correct the problem.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
You're talking about Islamic culture here, where women are executed for defending themselves against rapists, and where they're also forced to burn to death rather than be allowed to escape a burning building without proper attire. You could not possibly ever imagine them being accepting of gay people.

They are barbarians, worthy of only derision, scorn, and carpet bombing.

I would have to agree. As mean as it sounds, it seems to be the only way to correct the problem.

go see a shrink, you have issues

There is a difference between Islamic culture, regional culture and traditions. All of the practices mentioned are regional rather than religional.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
You're talking about Islamic culture here, where women are executed for defending themselves against rapists, and where they're also forced to burn to death rather than be allowed to escape a burning building without proper attire. You could not possibly ever imagine them being accepting of gay people.

They are barbarians, worthy of only derision, scorn, and carpet bombing.

I would have to agree. As mean as it sounds, it seems to be the only way to correct the problem.

The problem with being able to see an inch past your nose is that it produces the notion you can see generally.

The cure for an infected finger is to blow off the arm.

 

[Tom]

Why do you characterize this as a liberal issue ?

Just about everybody wants the Palestinians to have a state, but not at the cost of Israel's destruction.

That's the problem, at least some, and I think probably almost all, Arabs and other Middle Eastern muslims want to eliminate Israel, either right now, or sometime down the road.

After 40 years of witnessing the results of this attitude, I don't expect they will ever change. Part of the problem is, they believe they are stronger or have a better cause, and that "Western" countries are weaker and they can either beat us or outlast us.

Which doesn't make any sense if you look at history and facts, I think "the West" is 7 and 1 lifetime ?

 

[Aimster]

I dont think there is one Muslim nation out there that wishes to destroy the counry of Israel in terms of killing all their citizens.

They don't agree with the state of Israel.

The entire region has conflicts of interest over the govts.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
You're talking about Islamic culture here, where women are executed for defending themselves against rapists, and where they're also forced to burn to death rather than be allowed to escape a burning building without proper attire. You could not possibly ever imagine them being accepting of gay people.

They are barbarians, worthy of only derision, scorn, and carpet bombing.

it's not all back and white....

http://www.merip.org/mer/mer206/bruce.htm

For this Egyptian, a Western "homosexual" was not readily comprehensible as a man or a woman, while a man who had sex with both women and boys was simply doing what men do. It is not the existence of same-sex sexual relations that is new but their association with essentialist sexual identities rather than hierarchies of age, class or status.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I dont think there is one Muslim nation out there that wishes to destroy the counry of Israel in terms of killing all their citizens.

They don't agree with the state of Israel.

The entire region has conflicts of interest over the govts.

You can't just dismiss the problem as being something that wouldn't exist without the governments. The governments manifest the beliefs of the people, even without democracy this is true to some extent.

And I didn't say the muslim nations want to kill all the people of Israel, although there isn't all that much difference between that and wanting to deny them the right to their own country. I think this would be very clear to Palestinians in particular, life without a home isn't worth much.

 

[EatSpam]

Probably the same as any other fundie state.... like Oklahoma.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Probably the same as any other fundie state.... like Oklahoma.

American fundies are amateurs compared to radical Islamists like these guys.
Iran's president Islam to rule the world

Islam must prepare to rule the world, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told a crowd of theological students in Iran's holy city of Qom, according to a report.

"We must believe in the fact that Islam is not confined to geographical borders, ethnic groups and nations. It's a universal ideology that leads the world to justice," Ahmadinejad said Jan. 5, according to Mehran Riazaty, a former Iran analyst for the Central Command of the Coalition Forces in Baghdad.

Islam to rule the world
And here is their vision, will the West give up its hard fought freedoms and individual rights in the spirit of multiculturalism to accomodate their beliefs?

Will there be a place for the atheist in their world, or the independent pro-choice woman?

Constitution for the new Islamic Republic of USA is under construction.
We will fight infidel to death.
Meanwhile, American laws will protect us.
Democrats and Leftist will support us.
UNO will legitimize us.
CAIR will incubate us.
ACLU will empower us.
Western Universities will shelter us.
Hollywood will love us.

Our children will immigrate from Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Indonesia and even from India to the US for education in full scholarship. America is paying and will continue to pay for our children?s educations and their upbringing in state funded Islamic schools.

We will use your welfare system. Our children will also send money home while they are preparing for Jihad.

We will take advantage of American kindness, gullibility, and compassion. When time comes we will stab them in the back to death. We will say one thing on the camera and teach another thing to our children at home. We will teach our children Islamic value from the very childhood. We will teach them not to compromise with Infidel. Once we do that from the very early age our children won?t hesitate to be martyr. We will take over the Europe first and then US. We already have a solid ground in the UK, Holland, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Germany, and US.

Our children will marry Caucasian in Europe and in America. We will mixed with intricate fabric of the Western society but still will remember to Jihad when times come. We are called ?sleeper cells?. We will raise our children to be loyal to Islam and Mohammad.

At the time of the real fight we will hold our own children as our armor. When American or Israeli troops shoot at us the world will be watching. Imagine,? Imagine the news in the world /. Death of Muslim babies by infidels.

We know CNN, ABC, CBS are broadcasting live. Al-Jazeera will pour gasoline on the fire. The news will spread like wild fire. ?Americans killed 6 babies, 10 babies?. ?Jews killed two women?,

Visualize the news flash all over the world, ?Moslem mother is sobbing, ?.crying. ?.Her babies are killed by Jews and Americans, the whole world is watching live. Hundrends of millions of Muslims all around the world are boiling. They will march through Europe. We will use our women to produce more babies who will in turn be used as armor/shield. Our babies are the gift from Allah for Jihad.

West manufactures their tanks in the factory. We will manufacture our military force by natural means, by producing more babies. That is the way it is cheaper.

You infidels at this site cannot defeat us. We are 1.2 billion. We will double again. Do you have enough bullets to kill us?

On the camera:
We will always say, Islam is the religion of Piece.
We will say, Jihad is actually inner Jihad.
There will be more 911 in Europe and in America.
We will say, We do not support terrorism but America got what it deserved.

Muslims, CAIR, ISNA and other international Islamic Organization will unite. We will partner with Leftist, ACLU, with Koffi Annan, and the UN, and if we have to then even with France. Fasten your seatbelt, war of civilizations has just begun.

We will use your own values of Kindness against you.

You are destined to loose.

Must be very depressing for you. Isn?t it?

Allah-hu-Akbar.

Or should we just ignore them since its just a few and they will see the light once they experience Western freedoms and democracy and fill their pockets with the almighty dollar?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
We want a Palestinian state so that the people can possibly stop dying. Whether it be citizens in a Jerusalem mall, or kids in a Palestinian community. We have to take baby steps here, just to appease both sides enough for them to stop shooting and blowing each other up. We can pressure them for better human rights when they don't have bombs strapped to them. I know it's sad and it sounds like we are abandoning your group, but that isn't what is happening. We have to stop the war, then we can work on other things.

What is happening to the Palestinians now is a direct result of their insistance on continuing with suicide bombings in Israel.

Allowing the Palestinians to form a state should be contingent on human rights for all of their citizens, including women, children and gays. The international community should be insisting on this.

And yes "you" (as in most liberals) are abandoning sexual minorities among the Palestinians if you never speak out against the persecution and killing of gays by the Palestinian Authority or Hamas. E.g.,

"He was forced to stand in sewage water up to his neck, his head covered by a sack filled with feces, and then he was thrown into a dark cell infested with insects and other creatures he could feel but not see. ("You slap one part of your body, and then you have to slap another," he recounts.) During one interrogation, police stripped him and forced him to sit on a Coke bottle. Through the entire ordeal he was taunted by interrogators, jailers, and fellow prisoners for being a homosexual."

Gay bars in Israel are one of the few places in the middle east where you will see Palestinian men and Jewish men happily sitting next to each other. You people could actually learn something from homosexuals, if you opened your eyes.

 

[Tom]

"And yes "you" (as in most liberals)"

I asked you before with no response, so I'll try again.

Is there some rational reason why you think "liberals" support a Palestinian state, and that others do not ?

What group is it that you think does not support a Palestinian state under any conditions ?


As far as persecution of gays, I consider myself fairly liberal and I am opposed to persecution of gays by Hamas, or Kansas.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Tom
"And yes "you" (as in most liberals)"

I asked you before with no response, so I'll try again.

Is there some rational reason why you think "liberals" support a Palestinian state, and that others do not ?

What group is it that you think does not support a Palestinian state under any conditions ?


As far as persecution of gays, I consider myself fairly liberal and I am opposed to persecution of gays by Hamas, or Kansas.

as a somewhat liberal individual i do not really "support" palestine..but i dont support israel either...neith of them are worthy of my support in my opinion...(the governments)

 

[Siwy]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
I'm wondering how support for a Palestinian state can be a progressive cause, when the Palestinian Authority and Hamas have a record of persecuting harrassing and/ or killing gay people. What would "human rights" for gay people look like in a Palestinian state? I suspect there would be none. I fail to understand why some liberals/ leftists are so gung-ho in their support for Palestinians and so anti-Israel. I think it is interesting that Israel is basically the only state in the entire Middle East where gay people have any rights and are left free to live their lives.

Gay in Palestine

Gay Rights Before Palestinian Statehood

"Are these the laws for which the Palestinian street is waiting? For us to give rights to homosexuals and to lesbians, a minority of perverts and the mentally and morally sick?" - Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas

The suggestion that all Palestinians hate gays and because of that do not deserve their own statehood is ridiculous. Being gay, I would think you?re a bit more open minded but maybe I should not generalize.

Human rights issues in Palestine are the result of radical factions in the government. Radical factions, on the other hand, exist because the oppression and collective punishment of Israeli government creates a situation where they can flourish.

The solution is obvious?I do not think I have to spell out for you what the solution is?do I?