What will it take to change US airport security?

[everman]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Singling out old ladies in wheelchairs is just stupid, however so is singling out every single arab that flies or singling out anyone because of skin tone. That is plain idiocy and a waste of time. Anyone can try to blow up or hijack an airplane. A white guy in his 20s is just as likely as an arab in his 20s. Little old ladies are not likely. It's that simple.

What did the 9/11 hijackers look like? What about the people that blew up those subways and busses last year? And the most recent incident?

Do you by chance see something in common? Racial profiling works, just look at Ben Gurion in Israel. How could you possibly think it's a waste of time? The Israelis do this and it works, in addition they also use psychological profiling by talking to everyone.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: everman

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Singling out old ladies in wheelchairs is just stupid, however so is singling out every single arab that flies or singling out anyone because of skin tone. That is plain idiocy and a waste of time. Anyone can try to blow up or hijack an airplane. A white guy in his 20s is just as likely as an arab in his 20s. Little old ladies are not likely. It's that simple.

What did the 9/11 hijackers look like? What about the people that blew up those subways and busses last year? And the most recent incident?

Do you by chance see something in common? Racial profiling works, just look at Ben Gurion in Israel. How could you possibly think it's a waste of time? The Israelis do this and it works, in addition they also use psychological profiling by talking to everyone.

The Israelis don't search Arab lookin dudes bags becuase they're Arab, they search damn near EVERYONE's bags, extensively at that.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Singling out old ladies in wheelchairs is just stupid, however so is singling out every single arab that flies or singling out anyone because of skin tone. That is plain idiocy and a waste of time. Anyone can try to blow up or hijack an airplane. A white guy in his 20s is just as likely as an arab in his 20s. Little old ladies are not likely. It's that simple.

Since when has profiling been limited to skin color? This is the reason profiling isn't used in the US... ignorance.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

How much longer will we tolerate an aviation security system that pretends, for reasons of political correctness, not to know that?

Thats an interesting question.
It will probably take just as long as it takes people to figure out that we made a Politics and News section for......
Politics and News!

Oh, lay off me.
I used to be in P&N all the time, then I didn't venture near it for a couple of years, now with this recent thing in Israel/Lebanon I got sucked back in and have just broken loose from that hellhole. You want to throw me back in?

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
What did that have to do with people being too PC? There's nothing preventing Americans from doing the exact same thing that the Israelis do. Looking for bulky clothing or strange behavior is not racial profiling. It's a good idea and there's literally nothing to prevent us from doing it. One can make accusations, but in any court of law a security officer will win if it's your word versus his.

Singling out old ladies in wheelchairs is just stupid, however so is singling out every single arab that flies or singling out anyone because of skin tone. That is plain idiocy and a waste of time. Anyone can try to blow up or hijack an airplane. A white guy in his 20s is just as likely as an arab in his 20s. Little old ladies are not likely. It's that simple.

Read this part:

No sensible person imagines that ethnic or religious profiling alone can stop every terrorist plot. But it is illogical and potentially suicidal not to take account of the fact that so far every suicide-terrorist plotting to take down an American plane has been a radical Muslim man. It is not racism or bigotry to argue that the prevention of Islamist terrorism necessitates a special focus on Muslim travelers, just as it is not racism or bigotry when police trying to prevent a Mafia killing pay closer attention to Italians.

Of course most Muslims are not violent jihadis, but all violent jihadis are Muslim. "This nation," President Bush has said, "is at war with Islamic fascists." How much longer will we tolerate an aviation security system that pretends, for reasons of political correctness, not to know that?

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The various changes and enhancements to passenger screening have not been designed to improve real security, but rather to increase the perception of security. In other words, to make it seem as if the government is doing something real about the threat of terrorism.

George Carlin had a monologue years ago about the quality of airport security...

Anyone can get on an airplane and I'll tell you why. They know they are not a security risk because they have answered the three big questions.

Question #1:

"Did you pack your bags yourself?"

"No, Carrot Top packed my bags. He and Martha Stewart and Florence Henderson came over to the house last night, fixed me a lovely lobster Newburg, gave me a full body massage with sacred oils from India, performed a four way 'round the world', and then they packed my bags.

Next question:

"Have your bags been in your possession the whole time?"

"No. Usually the night before I travel---just as the moon is rising---I place my bags out on the street corner and leave them there, unattended, for several hours. Just for good luck.

Next question:

"Has any unknown person asked you to take anything on board?"

"Well, what exactly is an 'unknown person'? Surely everyone is known to someone. In fact, just this morning, Kareem and Youssef Ali ben Gabba seemed to know each other quite well. They kept joking about which one of my suitcases was the heaviest.".............

Airport security is a stupid idea, it's a waste of money, and it's there for only one reason: to make white people feel safe! That's all it's for. To provide a feeling, an illusion, of safety in order to placate the middle class. Because the authorities know they can't make airplanes safe; too many people have access. You'll notice the drug smugglers don't seem to have a lot of trouble getting their little packages on board, do they?......

And by the way, an airplane flight shouldn't be completely safe. You need A little danger in your life. Take a ****** chance, will ya? What are you gonna do, play with your prick for another 30 years? What, are you gonna read _PEOPLE_ magazine and eat at Wendy's till the end of internal linktime? Take a ****** chance.....

You have to be realistic about terrorism. Certain groups of people---Muslim fundamentalists, Christian fundamentalists, Jewish fundamentalist, and just plain guys from Montana---are going to continue to make life in this country very interesting for a long, long time. That's the internal linkreality.

Angry men talkin' to god on a two-way radio and muttering incoherent slogans about freedom are eventually gonna provide us with a great deal of internal linkentertainment. Especially after your stupid ****** economy collapses all around you, the terrorists come out of the woodwork. And you'll have anthrax in the internal linkwater supply and sarin gas in the air conditioners; there'll be chemical and biological suitcase-bombs in every city, ......

As far as I'm concerned, all of this airport security--the cameras, the questions, the screenings, the searches--is just one more way of reducing your liberty and reminding you that they can ****** with you anytime they want. Because that's the way Americans are now. They're willing to trade away a little of their freedom in exchange for the feeling---the illusion---of security.

Carlin pretty much sums up my feelings on this matter.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
You want to throw me back in?

Ohhhh, if only we had a whipping emoticon. Maybe even a guy with a chair AND a whip.
That would be fun.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Topic Title: What will it take to change US airport security?

The only thing that can save the U.S. now is it's citizens, full scale Revolution II.

Prudence indeed, will dictate, that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.

Our country has unmistakably wandered far from its ideological roots in the Enlightenment/classical liberalism. May it return to them.

 

[libs0n]

One, a smart human being will be able to outsmart any system designed to limit them, including racial profiling. Perhaps the bomber will put a bible in his bag, and claim to be a god-fearing christian as one member of this board does to get less hassled. There are causcasian muslims, you know, and black ones, so unless the bomber declares that he or she is a muslim, its probably not as easy to single out one religion as you think it will be. Perhaps they'll recruit women to do the bombing when every arab man is strip searched. Maybe they'll get a job in baggage handling, and forgo the whole mess. Perhaps they'll do things you or I cannot comprehend or predict; in fact I betcha that'll be the one. Even if you are able to cut off one avenue, such as airliners, they'll just pursue other tactics, like striking buses or trains. Oh wait, they've done just that, haven't they?

Hmm, I guess a point of mine is that racial profiling is also reacting to past circumstances that won't necessarily be repeated, such as the shoe check prevents the unlikely event of another shoe bomber. When shoes are checked, they'll use liquid explosives, and when arab men are singled out for exclusion, they'll switched to something else that might work.

Two, Israel is what, a nation of six million? Solutions they can enact due to their smaller size won't be so easily enacted in America, a nation of 300 million or so. With such a larger system, as well as workers who aren't as dedicated as the professionals in Israel, there will be many weak spots. While googling to find out el-al's yearly flight rate, I came across a section of an article that illustrates my point about the impracticality of implementing conversation based screening throughout America:

And for a system as vast as the one in the United States, that is a key consideration -- balancing the need for safety against the need and desire for freedom of movement. Israel, for example, has a grueling but effective policy of subjecting travelers to intense interviews before allowing them on a flight.

With each passenger grilled by multiple security officials, the screening process in Isreal can take 45 minutes or more. That's less of a problem if the airline, like Israel's El-Al, flies only 25 flights or so per day.

In the United States, such an approach could back up the entire commercial aviation system.

Three, the solution to airline security, and preventing terrorism, is policework. It wasn't your vaunted racial profiling that prevented these recent bombings, or bomb screening devices, or the shoe check, but good ole fashioned detective work.

Perhaps, The Presence, you'd be content if we made all muslims wear badges to announce that they may be the Islamofascists who hate us for our freedoms?

 

[puffff]

I dont see why people get all upset over racial profiling. If I were a law abiding arab, I why should I mind jumping through some extra hoops, if what I get in return is peace of mind that my plane won't explode in midair?

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: puffff
I dont see why people get all upset over racial profiling. If I were a law abiding arab, I why should I mind jumping through some extra hoops, if what I get in return is peace of mind that my plane won't explode in midair?

Say it was white people then. Would you want to be jumping through extra hoops that other people wouldn't have to go through? Racial profiling isn't the answer because as one user put it, arabs don't necessarily look one particular way. They could be black, they could be more caucasian looking.

 

[dexvx]

You can't have good security if you're not willing to pay for quality personnel. Too many idiots that don't care about their job in America.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: everman

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Singling out old ladies in wheelchairs is just stupid, however so is singling out every single arab that flies or singling out anyone because of skin tone. That is plain idiocy and a waste of time. Anyone can try to blow up or hijack an airplane. A white guy in his 20s is just as likely as an arab in his 20s. Little old ladies are not likely. It's that simple.

What did the 9/11 hijackers look like? What about the people that blew up those subways and busses last year? And the most recent incident?

Do you by chance see something in common? Racial profiling works, just look at Ben Gurion in Israel. How could you possibly think it's a waste of time? The Israelis do this and it works, in addition they also use psychological profiling by talking to everyone.

And what did the unibomber look like? How about those people who keep blowing up abortion clinics?

Oh, guess you're wrong.

The Israelis don't need to look through every article of clothing and give the arabs a strip search, that's just stupid. Even intermediate security would be good enough. Fine, check their bags if they're acting suspicious, but if it's some arab grandmother why would you bother?

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Singling out old ladies in wheelchairs is just stupid, however so is singling out every single arab that flies or singling out anyone because of skin tone. That is plain idiocy and a waste of time. Anyone can try to blow up or hijack an airplane. A white guy in his 20s is just as likely as an arab in his 20s. Little old ladies are not likely. It's that simple.

Since when has profiling been limited to skin color? This is the reason profiling isn't used in the US... ignorance.

You've noticed why I specified racial profiling. Because profiling is not strictly racial.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: DrPizzaDoes the US gov't have a place where people can make suggestions? Not that I know of.

it's called congress. call up your local congressman. seriously. that is what they are there for. if you don't have yours on speed dial, well, why the hell not?

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Topic Title: What will it take to change US airport security?

The only thing that can save the U.S. now is it's citizens, full scale Revolution II.

get back to P&N...

if there is a fullscale revolution, hopefully you are the first one to die, then maybe things will settle down.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: puffff
I dont see why people get all upset over racial profiling. If I were a law abiding arab, I why should I mind jumping through some extra hoops, if what I get in return is peace of mind that my plane won't explode in midair?

Say it was white people then. Would you want to be jumping through extra hoops that other people wouldn't have to go through? Racial profiling isn't the answer because as one user put it, arabs don't necessarily look one particular way. They could be black, they could be more caucasian looking.

well, i'm asian, so i assume you meant suppose asians were being singled out. and no, i wouldnt mind. if there are reasons to believe the next terrorist is asian, go ahead, search me, i got nothing to hide.

i understand terrorists can be any race or color, and we should flag people whom security deem suspicious. its just that if it just so happens 9 out of 10 suspicious fellows are arab (or whatever race), we should not be scared to act on that.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: KillerAngel

But in telling ways, the two experiences remain notably different. For example, passengers in the United States are required to take off their shoes for X-ray screening, while passengers at Ben Gurion are spared that indignity.

That made me LOL.

Frankly, when I'm standing in line with my shoes off, holding my pants up because they made me take off my belt, and shuffling through the metal detector, I feel like I'm in a prison camp or something. It IS an indignity, which would only be understandable if it made ANY difference in security. Which it does not...the mechanics and ground crew still come through the back door with no security, kids can walk right through with no problem, hell, I even had a little penknife once that was *just* small enough not to trip the metal detectors

Like the OP posted, US airport security is strictly reactionary, and it is completely ineffective, overly expensive, and simply demeaning.

 

[Jeff7]

Something else of concern:
Ok, liquids can be explosive, so they aren't allowed.
Is it time to go after the other states of matter as well? Solids have long been used in explosives, and are even found in nuclear weapons such as the hydrogen bomb.
Gases can also cause serious damage. Why even nature itself has conspired against us. Naturally occurring elements such as chlorine and flourine can kill a human. We also have artificial nerve gases that kill very quickly. Should gases also be banned from airplanes?
While we're at it, I guess plasma should also be banned, as it is dangerous by itself.