What upgrade would you get in my situation?

[montypythizzle]

Updates throughout thread








Hello friends, I am looking to get a significant boost in performance for sub $150 for my game World of Warcraft. I however do not know the best way to get the most performance, along with not really wasting my money down the road.

My current set up:
CPU: Athlon X2 3600 AM2
MoBo: Gigabyte M61P-S3, pretty sure it only accepts AM2
Ram: DDR2 800 OCZ 4GB 2x2GB
Video Card: HD4830 ATi

I play with a 23" screen so the resolution is 1920X1080, and I like to play at high settings.

My current problem is I get decent FPS when playing my game while looking at a blank wall 55-60 FPS and in small groups of players/small areas, but when I get into a lot of clutter or in a group of a lot of players it goes down to 10-5FPS.

I think the best bet would be to get a video card, however I see some 5-8 FPS increase when I overclock my processor and ram at a locked ratio up to 2.3ghz or more.

However when I overclock the video card I see little improvement.

Please post your opinion about what I should do as I haven't had much experience since building/keeping up to date about 4 years ago.

 

[Skilldotcom]

What a coincidence I have almost the same specs as you but when I try to overclock for WoW it locks up all the time causing wipes and all around terrible playing.

 

[montypythizzle]

What a coincidence I have almost the same specs as you but when I try to overclock for WoW it locks up all the time causing wipes and all around terrible playing.

That sometimes happens to me.

 

[Blue Shift]

Since there hasn't been a reply from one of our regulars yet, here's some basic advice for you in this situation:

WoW is known for its excessive CPU usage in cities. Since you get decent framerates otherwise, a new CPU is your best bet.

You could get a faster AM2 CPU to fit in your system, and I wouldn't expect one to cost much. I'm not sure whether or not it would be enough, however. Hopefully someone else has a better idea of which CPUs WoW likes.

Modern AMD and Intel motherboards will accept only DDR3 RAM, which adds one additional component to purchase if you plan on switching platforms. At $150, this would pose quite a challenge. There are CPU/Motherboard combos on Newegg for under $150, but your new motherboard would probably lack modern amenities such as USB3 and SATA 6GB/s.

Remember that WoW is a 2004 game. Is that the only reason you're upgrading your computer?

 

[montypythizzle]

Since there hasn't been a reply from one of our regulars yet, here's some basic advice for you in this situation:

WoW is known for its excessive CPU usage in cities. Since you get decent framerates otherwise, a new CPU is your best bet.

You could get a faster AM2 CPU to fit in your system, and I wouldn't expect one to cost much. I'm not sure whether or not it would be enough, however. Hopefully someone else has a better idea of which CPUs WoW likes.

Modern AMD and Intel motherboards will accept only DDR3 RAM, which adds one additional component to purchase if you plan on switching platforms. At $150, this would pose quite a challenge. There are CPU/Motherboard combos on Newegg for under $150, but your new motherboard would probably lack modern amenities such as USB3 and SATA 6GB/s.

Remember that WoW is a 2004 game. Is that the only reason you're upgrading your computer?

I don't really care about new features and the such, since I will still have old pieces of H/W from the old computer. But yeah, a lot of people say it's a CPU based game, and overclocking the processor really makes it seem to be more snappy as far as framerates, but it never really gets the 40-60 FPS I want.

But ya, pretty much just for WoW, I haven't really tried any other games xD


As far as upgrading AM2, there really isn't any options, but wasn't AM3 supposed to be compatible with AM2 sockets?

 

[Blue Shift]

I don't really care about new features and the such, since I will still have old pieces of H/W from the old computer. But yeah, a lot of people say it's a CPU based game, and overclocking the processor really makes it seem to be more snappy as far as framerates, but it never really gets the 40-60 FPS I want.

But ya, pretty much just for WoW, I haven't really tried any other games xD


As far as upgrading AM2, there really isn't any options, but wasn't AM3 supposed to be compatible with AM2 sockets?

IIRC, AM2 chips can also fit in AM3 boards, and some AM3 chips fit in "AM2+" boards. In essence, AMD sockets tend to be backwards-compatable. Not forwards-compatable.

If you don't care about motherboard features, you should probably just look at CPU/Mobo combos on newegg that are in your price range, and try to find associated WoW framerates for those CPUs.

Understand that WoW isn't just picky in terms of CPUs, it's downright obnoxious. I really don't understand why it's excusable for an MMO from 2004 to be so demanding, when modern ones aren't. Sorry, rant over.

 

[montypythizzle]

Hmm it does say it has AM3 capability, GOOD NEWS.

Now to find a CHEAP AM3. *searches around*

Eh? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103932

 

[mikeymikec]

I would use Process Explorer (sysinternals) to monitor memory usage. It may not be that of course, but it's quick/easy enough to check before shelling out.

You haven't mentioned what OS you're using.

Btw, I'm not sure I've heard of an AMD Athlon II X2 3600. Do you mean that you're running it at 3.6GHz?

 

[montypythizzle]

No, it's 1.8ghz, but it's overclocked to 2.3 right now, used to have it at 2.4 but that was with RAM at a lower ratio than the CPU, its 1:1 now so I have to lower the CPU a bit, a little bit more performance it seems.

But WinXP32.

 

[Blue Shift]

Hmm it does say it has AM3 capability, GOOD NEWS.

NO. Stop right there.

Here's a compatability chart for your motherboard:
http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2434

You'll probably need to update your BIOS before installing a new CPU. Note that the bios version for some CPUs is "N/A." This is because not all AM3 CPUs are supported by your board.

Edit: I think the individual cores in Phenom II CPUs are faster than those in Athlon IIs. If so, a Phenom II X3 might outperform an Athlon II X4 in WoW, even with the same clockrate.
Edit 2: I swear there are people on this board who actually know things... They're just asleep right now.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

This is the best you're gonna do for that price for WoW, truth be told:

AMD Phenom II X3 720 BE: $70
Biostar A770E3 AM3 Motherboard: $50
G.Skill NS 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 RAM: $32

$152

Don't bother with a GPU upgrade. WoW is an extremely CPU bound game, and that extra core will do you wonders. The fact it has 6MB L3 cache and can OC on stock voltage to 3.2GHz will definitely help, too. Use the cooler you're using for your 3600+ now since it's an OEM CPU. If it's the stock one, don't worry: it's better than what comes in AMD's new AM3 95W TDP CPUs.

As far as the motherboard goes, it's good and inexpensive. It has more features than what you're currently using. If you need to over-volt, though, only do small increments. Don't go higher than 1.45V.

The RAM, while generic, is good quality. Getting more expensive 1600MHz DDR3 RAM will probably only net you an increase of under 2%.

 

[mvbighead]

This is the best you're gonna do for that price for WoW, truth be told:

AMD Phenom II X3 720 BE: $70
Biostar A770E3 AM3 Motherboard: $50
G.Skill NS 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 RAM: $32

$152

Don't bother with a GPU upgrade. WoW is an extremely CPU bound game, and that extra core will do you wonders. The fact it has 6MB L3 cache and can OC on stock voltage to 3.2GHz will definitely help, too. Use the cooler you're using for your 3600+ now since it's an OEM CPU. If it's the stock one, don't worry: it's better than what comes in AMD's new AM3 95W TDP CPUs.

As far as the motherboard goes, it's good and inexpensive. It has more features than what you're currently using. If you need to over-volt, though, only do small increments. Don't go higher than 1.45V.

The RAM, while generic, is good quality. Getting more expensive 1600MHz DDR3 RAM will probably only net you an increase of under 2%.

Curious as to why he should do all of that when his board supports the processor.

OP, if you have a limited budget, your best bet is to find the best Phenom II you can get your hands on.

This would be nice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-652-_-Product

This would be much better (and it comes with a new fan):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-809-_-Product

Don't forget the promo code for the above which knocks it down to 99.99. According the Gigabyte (thanks to the link provided above), that should work in your board as it is a 95W variety (with a BIOS update of course).

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Yes, go 4 cores rather than having a BE x3

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Curious as to why he should do all of that when his board supports the processor.

OP, if you have a limited budget, your best bet is to find the best Phenom II you can get your hands on.

This would be nice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-652-_-Product

This would be much better (and it comes with a new fan):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-809-_-Product

Don't forget the promo code for the above which knocks it down to 99.99. According the Gigabyte (thanks to the link provided above), that should work in your board as it is a 95W variety (with a BIOS update of course).

It supports it, theoretically. Problem is, AM2 motherboards have much lower FSB/HyperTransport speed support. He's better off just getting a new platform, which can be done at his price range. If he just spends all the money on a CPU, he'll be stuck on an old platform, not to mention he won't get the same performance as if the CPU was in an AM2+ or AM3 motherboard with normal HyperTransport speeds.

With his motherboard he'll be limited to 1000MHz HyperTransport, while the CPU is made for 2000MHz.

 

[montypythizzle]

It supports it, theoretically. Problem is, AM2 motherboards have much lower FSB/HyperTransport speed support. He's better off just getting a new platform, which can be done at his price range. If he just spends all the money on a CPU, he'll be stuck on an old platform, not to mention he won't get the same performance as if the CPU was in an AM2+ or AM3 motherboard with normal HyperTransport speeds.

With his motherboard he'll be limited to 1000MHz HyperTransport, while the CPU is made for 2000MHz.

This is true, as far as the downclock of the HT.

However, is this really a huge deal? I remember threads saying in "olden times" that HT speed when overclocking really wasn't a HUGE performance increase.

C/D? Is the HT speed going to affect it as much as "two times (2000/1000)"?

 

[montypythizzle]

NO. Stop right there.

Here's a compatability chart for your motherboard:
http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2434

You'll probably need to update your BIOS before installing a new CPU. Note that the bios version for some CPUs is "N/A." This is because not all AM3 CPUs are supported by your board.

Edit: I think the individual cores in Phenom II CPUs are faster than those in Athlon IIs. If so, a Phenom II X3 might outperform an Athlon II X4 in WoW, even with the same clockrate.
Edit 2: I swear there are people on this board who actually know things... They're just asleep right now.

The one I linked is currently on that list with a "supported by most current BIOS".


However I will probably get the Quad Core that Mvbighead posted.

 

[VirtualLarry]

IIRC, AM2 chips can also fit in AM3 boards, and some AM3 chips fit in "AM2+" boards. In essence, AMD sockets tend to be backwards-compatable. Not forwards-compatable.

Nope. Cannot put AM2 chip in AM3 socket. CAN put AM3 chip in AM2+ socket. The "plus" is important. Can also put AM2 chip in AM2+ socket.

The reason is, AM3 boards tend to use DDR3, and AM2 chips do not have a DDR3 memory controller in them, only DDR2. However, AM3 chips have BOTH a DDR2 and a DDR3 memory controller in them. So AM3 CPUs can work in AM2+ (DDR2) boards, as well as AM3 (DDR3) boards.

 

[sm625]

I found this on tomshardware forums:


steven zwickel 08-11-2009 at 01:11:43 AM
-
I can confirm the GA-M61P-S3 with F7F does work with Phenom II X3 710 (AM2+). I had a friend let me borrow the chip, plugged it in and accepted it without a problem. I assume that all of the AM2+ chips will work. Thanks for the help everyone.

Newegg has an X3 720 for $70. You'd see a massive peformance boost and the thing would use less power than the 3600 too!

 

[mfenn]

I found this on tomshardware forums:


steven zwickel 08-11-2009 at 01:11:43 AM
-
I can confirm the GA-M61P-S3 with F7F does work with Phenom II X3 710 (AM2+). I had a friend let me borrow the chip, plugged it in and accepted it without a problem. I assume that all of the AM2+ chips will work. Thanks for the help everyone.

Newegg has an X3 720 for $70. You'd see a massive peformance boost and the thing would use less power than the 3600 too!

OP, this is for sure your cheapest option. You'll most likely be able to reuse the HSF from your current processor, so you won't even need to get one of those.

Yes, the Phenom II will theoretically be slowed down by using an older motherboard. No, spending double by upgrading the mobo and RAM will not double your performance.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

This is true, as far as the downclock of the HT.

However, is this really a huge deal? I remember threads saying in "olden times" that HT speed when overclocking really wasn't a HUGE performance increase.

C/D? Is the HT speed going to affect it as much as "two times (2000/1000)"?

Well, you are cutting the bus speed of the CPU in half, so there's definitely a performance decrease. It's not huge, though (under 10%).

Buying something for AM2 is throwing money at a sunk ship, though. AM3 will be outdated soon, as well, so now that I think about it, it wouldn't make much sense to buy one of those boards either.

What I'd recommend is you just buy the Phenom II X3 720 I linked and save the rest. Whether you get the X3 or X4, you'll probably want to replace it in the future anyway because Bulldozer is coming out, and by then you'll have to buy an AM3+ mobo. The Phenom II X3 720 will be a huge upgrade from your current Athlon X2 3600+ in every aspect: performance and power consumption. Use the cooler you're currently using for the Athlon and call it a day.

 

[montypythizzle]

Well, you are cutting the bus speed of the CPU in half, so there's definitely a performance decrease. It's not huge, though (under 10%).

Buying something for AM2 is throwing money at a sunk ship, though. AM3 will be outdated soon, as well, so now that I think about it, it wouldn't make much sense to buy one of those boards either.

What I'd recommend is you just buy the Phenom II X3 720 I linked and save the rest. Whether you get the X3 or X4, you'll probably want to replace it in the future anyway because Bulldozer is coming out, and by then you'll have to buy an AM3+ mobo. The Phenom II X3 720 will be a huge upgrade from your current Athlon X2 3600+ in every aspect: performance and power consumption. Use the cooler you're currently using for the Athlon and call it a day.

Roger!

 

[montypythizzle]

Ordered, we'll see how it goes.

 

[Puppies04]

I'm interested in what speed Broadband you are running on and more importantly what ping you see in game. Yes wow is CPU intensive but i have lost track of the amount of people who have spent $$$ (actually (£££ as i am in the uk) upgrading their kit to see minimal increases in choppy framerates in cities/raids due to poor internet performance.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Ordered, we'll see how it goes.

Congrats. :thumbsup:

This will be a huge upgrade from your old 3600+, and for only $75. Remember that it can OC on stock voltage to 3.2GHz, too.

 

[mfenn]

Ha, I just noticed that Axel and I gave pretty much the same exact advice and rationale without referencing each other at all.