what type of material for brake pad?

[BlahBlahYouToo]

pros and cons of each?
i see ceramic, organic, semi-metallic.

 

[Vette73]

organic is mostly older cars and is not used on most so I will leave it at don;t use.


Ceramic is great for low noise and dust. The bad is they are not great with heat so high speed driving and towing is a place you should not use ceramic.

Semi-Met is great for performance and can usually handle heat and weight. They are more likly to make a little noise and also produce more dust.

My CTS and Corvette has ceramic in the front and semi-met in the rear. My truck has Semi-met as I tow a lot with it.

Rockauto.com has a lot of good pads and the Gold pads from AZ and Advance are also good.

What is the year, make, and model? Also what is it mostly used for?

 

[daw123]

You should read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake

It pretty much tells you the pros and cons of each disk brake composition.

Unless there are any Metallurgists or Material Scientists in AT that can suggest / discuss better alternatives to what we have now.

 

[EightySix Four]

organic is mostly older cars and is not used on most so I will leave it at don;t use.


Ceramic is great for low noise and dust. The bad is they are not great with heat so high speed driving and towing is a place you should not use ceramic.

Semi-Met is great for performance and can usually handle heat and weight. They are more likly to make a little noise and also produce more dust.

My CTS and Corvette has ceramic in the front and semi-met in the rear. My truck has Semi-met as I tow a lot with it.

Rockauto.com has a lot of good pads and the Gold pads from AZ and Advance are also good.

What is the year, make, and model? Also what is it mostly used for?

I think you have your heat problem with ceramic pads backwards? They are awesome at dealing with high heat, they have problems with low heat. If they do not have any heat in them (when you first start driving) they have problems creating enough friction.

 

[Bucks]

I think you have your heat problem with ceramic pads backwards? They are awesome at dealing with high heat, they have problems with low heat. If they do not have any heat in them (when you first start driving) they have problems creating enough friction.

Yeah, I was going to post this. Ceramic Breaks are usually an additional option (more $$) for cars like Porsche, Ferrari, etc. They can disperse heat much quicker reducing break fade. I think they can sometimes squeak when first cold.

 

[EightySix Four]

Yeah, I was going to post this. Ceramic Breaks are usually an additional option (more $$) for cars like Porsche, Ferrari, etc. They can disperse heat much quicker reducing break fade. I think they can sometimes squeak when first cold.

Wrong ceramic brakes. That's carbon-ceramic pads and rotors. We're talking about ceramic pads on metal rotors.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Wow...

Two separate people so far (including the one who linked to wikipedia) have managed to confuse brake pads with brake rotors. Carbon ceramic rotors need to heat up first. Ceramic pads are fine in low-heat street applications. Ceramic pads have very different compositions than carbon ceramic rotors.

Ceramic pads handle high-heat better than most, but their main advantages are longer life, quieter operation, and less dust build-up. Ceramic pads generally don't have as much overall "bite" as race-compound metallic pads, but ceramic pads also don't eat rotors the same way that race-compound metallic pads do and they don't have the same issues with degraded wet performance that performance metallic pads sometimes do.

Semi-metallic pads have wide varieties of compositions and can range anywhere from race-compound pads that need heat to bite but will chew through a set of rotors in no time if you let them get up to temp to mild street formulations that are only barely superior to organic pads. Metallic and semi-metallic pads are the most prone to noise, but they last longer than organic pads (at the cost of wearing the rotors more than other types).

Organic pads are usually cheapest and they work well as long as they aren't over-heated. However, they also create the greatest amount of dust and they wear out the fastest.

For street cars that won't ever see a track, I pretty much universally recommend ceramic pads. They have, IMO, the best overall balance for everyday use and even when towing they are fine. Ceramic pads sometimes have less initial "bite" (that is, a light pressure doesn't grab as fast as with semi-metallics), but overall braking force is not diminished, the buildup is just more gradual and more linear with pedal pressure.

For a car that sees both street and track duty, I'd go with with a "performance" oriented semi-metallic pad and accept the trade-off in noise and rotor wear.

The only reason I'd use organic pads these days was if I literally couldn't afford the other options but needed new pads anyway.

ZV

 

[EightySix Four]

Wow...

Two separate people so far (including the one who linked to wikipedia) have managed to confuse brake pads with brake rotors. Carbon ceramic rotors need to heat up first. Ceramic pads are fine in low-heat street applications. Ceramic pads have very different compositions than carbon ceramic rotors.

Ceramic pads handle high-heat better than most, but their main advantages are longer life, quieter operation, and less dust build-up. Ceramic pads generally don't have as much overall "bite" as race-compound metallic pads, but ceramic pads also don't eat rotors the same way that race-compound metallic pads do and they don't have the same issues with degraded wet performance that performance metallic pads sometimes do.

Semi-metallic pads have wide varieties of compositions and can range anywhere from race-compound pads that need heat to bite but will chew through a set of rotors in no time if you let them get up to temp to mild street formulations that are only barely superior to organic pads. Metallic and semi-metallic pads are the most prone to noise, but they last longer than organic pads (at the cost of wearing the rotors more than other types).

Organic pads are usually cheapest and they work well as long as they aren't over-heated. However, they also create the greatest amount of dust and they wear out the fastest.

For street cars that won't ever see a track, I pretty much universally recommend ceramic pads. They have, IMO, the best overall balance for everyday use and even when towing they are fine. Ceramic pads sometimes have less initial "bite" (that is, a light pressure doesn't grab as fast as with semi-metallics), but overall braking force is not diminished, the buildup is just more gradual and more linear with pedal pressure.

For a car that sees both street and track duty, I'd go with with a "performance" oriented semi-metallic pad and accept the trade-off in noise and rotor wear.

The only reason I'd use organic pads these days was if I literally couldn't afford the other options but needed new pads anyway.

ZV

My understanding is that ceramic pads have issues with cold performance. There initial grip is lessened and then they hit a "bite" point where they feel like you hit the brakes harder than you meant to. This has been a complaint on numerous car forms I have visited (generally they are "performance oriented" ceramic pads) and I've read two or three threads complaining of near wrecks when the car brakes excessively despite the light press on the brake pedal.

I understand I didn't explain well enough in my previous post, but you knew what I meant

 

[Howard]

This has been a complaint on numerous car forms I have visited (generally they are "performance oriented" ceramic pads) and I've read two or three threads complaining of near wrecks when the car brakes excessively despite the light press on the brake pedal.

I find that very difficult to believe.

 

[Zenmervolt]

My understanding is that ceramic pads have issues with cold performance. There initial grip is lessened and then they hit a "bite" point where they feel like you hit the brakes harder than you meant to. This has been a complaint on numerous car forms I have visited (generally they are "performance oriented" ceramic pads) and I've read two or three threads complaining of near wrecks when the car brakes excessively despite the light press on the brake pedal.

I understand I didn't explain well enough in my previous post, but you knew what I meant

I use ceramic pads on all of my non-track vehicles and I've never experienced this supposed issue. I strongly doubt the veracity of those claims and am quite certain that the people making those complaints are covering for their own ineptitude.

ZV

 

[EightySix Four]

I use ceramic pads on all of my non-track vehicles and I've never experienced this supposed issue. I strongly doubt the veracity of those claims and am quite certain that the people making those complaints are covering for their own ineptitude.

ZV

I'll see if I can dig one up. I'm pretty sure it was on corvette forum.

 

[Meghan54]

Been using ceramic pads on our Blazer for 8 years, during which time it has towed a LOT, including 3,000 loads over mountains.

Never experienced what you've posted crazy, but on the other hand, I've experienced exactly what Zenmervolt describes.....little bite at light pedal pressure, then bites nicely and quite linear as pedal pressure is increased. Has always acted like that with the OEM AC Delco ceramics that came on it and with two replacement sets.

Currently have Akebono pads on the Blazer and they're working no different than the Wagner Thermo-Quiets I had on it just prior to these.

 

[Vette73]

Bosch and many other makers do NOT recommended Ceramic pads for high speed driving (autocross type driving) or towing. Street ceramic pads do fine in cooler temps but when they get very hot they will fade and not grip as well. Again most drivers will not notice this. But for trucks that tow a fair amount of weight or those with cars they like to track and will brake a lot then use a semi-met.

 

[rootaxs]

Just keep in mind, not all ceramic brakes are made equal.

Nearly all commercial ceramic pads are a mix of ceramic and some kind of metal or organic material. However, most of the value pads you can get at your local parts store has very little ceramic in them.

Properly designed ceramic pads work well for both daily driving and even at the track. Look at Carbotech's range of pads, for example.

 

[Vette73]

I just looked at Carbotech Bobcat 1521. They might be "ceramic based" but they are mostly semi-metallic from the pictures I have found. A true ceramic will not handle towing and very high heat as they say. That and they say "NOT recommended for any track use".

The other pads do not say it can be used for vehicles that tow.

 

[FeuerFrei]

I'd go with ceramic again, that's what I currently run on the Corolla. These Akebonos have little brake dust and no noise at all, though it's possible they might not bite as hard as a metallic compound.

 

[fbrdphreak]

For street cars that won't ever see a track, I pretty much universally recommend ceramic pads. They have, IMO, the best overall balance for everyday use and even when towing they are fine. Ceramic pads sometimes have less initial "bite" (that is, a light pressure doesn't grab as fast as with semi-metallics), but overall braking force is not diminished, the buildup is just more gradual and more linear with pedal pressure.

I agree with this and went with this route when I needed pads for my 97 Subaru wagon that my fiancée would be driving. I wanted something with low noise, low dust and the car would be driven lightly so I wasn't concerned about high speed stops or repeated stops.

I'm wondering if those who say ceramic pads have all these issues didn't bed them in properly. I put Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic pads on my 97 wagon and on the box it said "no bedding needed." Right. Pulled the car out of the garage and I was worried I'd somehow left a shit load of air in the system, the pedal was just that mushy. Instead I decided to take them out for a bedding session and things were MUCH improved.

The initial bite is a little soft. But whether cold or warmed up, they stop the car well. I have no complaints and at $40 for the front pads, can't complain about the price either. Purchased from knsbrakes.com

 

[Zenmervolt]

Bosch and many other makers do NOT recommended Ceramic pads for high speed driving (autocross type driving) or towing. Street ceramic pads do fine in cooler temps but when they get very hot they will fade and not grip as well. Again most drivers will not notice this. But for trucks that tow a fair amount of weight or those with cars they like to track and will brake a lot then use a semi-met.

Fair enough, but most people don't do the sort of "severe duty" towing that most pad manufacturers caution against with ceramic pads. Towing 5,000+ pounds through the mountains? Yeah, best to avoid ceramic pads. Towing your jet-ski to the lake? Ceramics will be fine.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

The initial bite is a little soft. But whether cold or warmed up, they stop the car well.

That's what I meant to convey. If you've ever driven a car with high-performance metallic or semi-metallic pads though, you'll be amazed at how much initial bite those pads have; they grab right now.

ZV

 

[Vette73]

Fair enough, but most people don't do the sort of "severe duty" towing that most pad manufacturers caution against with ceramic pads. Towing 5,000+ pounds through the mountains? Yeah, best to avoid ceramic pads. Towing your jet-ski to the lake? Ceramics will be fine.

ZV

I agree, that is why I posted my cars and pads. I have ceramic even on my Corvette. But my truck that I have 1000+ pds in it all the time I went with Semi-met. There was even someone here with a fullsize truck that had brake issues when he was hauling/towing and had ceramic pads.

The biggest reason I pointed that out was the OP did not say what he drove. If he said XYZ car that is used to haul myself and the kids I would say ceramic. But if he said truck I would play it safe and go with a good semi-met pad. Even if he does not tow/haul much he could let someone borrow it and many people overload trucks all the time.

For me its one of those CYA things.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I agree, that is why I posted my cars and pads. I have ceramic even on my Corvette. But my truck that I have 1000+ pds in it all the time I went with Semi-met. There was even someone here with a fullsize truck that had brake issues when he was hauling/towing and had ceramic pads.

The biggest reason I pointed that out was the OP did not say what he drove. If he said XYZ car that is used to haul myself and the kids I would say ceramic. But if he said truck I would play it safe and go with a good semi-met pad. Even if he does not tow/haul much he could let someone borrow it and many people overload trucks all the time.

For me its one of those CYA things.

Good point. I should've been more specific. Cheers! :beer;

(Boy do I miss that beer smiley.)

ZV

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

organic is mostly older cars and is not used on most so I will leave it at don;t use.


Ceramic is great for low noise and dust. The bad is they are not great with heat so high speed driving and towing is a place you should not use ceramic.

Semi-Met is great for performance and can usually handle heat and weight. They are more likly to make a little noise and also produce more dust.

My CTS and Corvette has ceramic in the front and semi-met in the rear. My truck has Semi-met as I tow a lot with it.

Rockauto.com has a lot of good pads and the Gold pads from AZ and Advance are also good.

What is the year, make, and model? Also what is it mostly used for?

04 Accord. Daily driver.

currently looking at akebono and racing-brake ceramic pads for the fronts.

thanks for the info my NoVa buddy.

 

[DietDrThunder]

I use what is called street kevlar (Carbon Graphite and Kevlar) brake shoes on my '63. Great performance when hot or cold. I went to a track day sponsered by a local car club and everyone thought I was nuts to run drum brakes. I had decent lap times and not once did I overheat the brakes. It cost me $200 plus shipping for both sets, but it was a heck of a lot cheaper than converting to discs on all 4 corners.