What to look for in a digital video camera?

[brikis98]

My sister is having her first child in the next few weeks and wants to pick up a digital video camera... it's my job to do some research and find something good for her.

Updated requirements:

1. Digital camcorder
2. Records high-def movies
3. Any recording format *other* than (mini) DVD's, as we've seen many issues with those. So, miniDV, hard drive, flash memory, etc is fair game.
4. It would be nice if there was an *easy* way to get the movie on a DVD, however.
5. Budget: ~$600 (up to $800 if it's an amazing deal)

Please share your recommendations!

 

[rudder]

I would see what type of compression it uses. I own an older diigtial 8 recorder and get decent video. It was better than my brother in laws newer recorder that wrote directy to DVD media. The compression was terrible and affected video quality. I have not look at one in a while so maybe this has improved.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Most people who use DVD camcorders note that there are many compression artifacts caused by the on-the-fly encoding process, which isn't flexible enough. After all, a mini DVD only has 1.4 GB of available space, or about a third of a "normal" 4.7 GB DVD... when you think about the fact that once you go over 2 Hrs of video on a DVD-5 you either need to drop the resolution to half-D1 or get used to macroblocks, you realize that mini-DVD camcorders are not such a hot idea.

I have three digital video sources: my old, trusted Digital8 camcorder, bought in 2001; my Canon S3IS - which does beautiful MJPEG video in 640x480@30 fps; and a new miniDV Canon ZR100 camcorder, acquired for a mere $149 BNIB... and I bought it because it's the only one that films in real widescreen (16x9) without sacrificing resolution.

However, all these digital cameras require you to follow one of two procedures to produce a DVD viewable on your home DVD system: either record the resulting videos (via analog or digital - RCA/composite OR USB/FireWire/1394) onto a standalone DVD recorder, OR download the video onto your PC (mostly through FireWire or USB), and use any video authoring application to produce a good DVD. A third option would be to feed the video (usually through the analog connections) into a MPEG Encoder (PCI or USB-based) on our PC, which would give you ready-to-burn DVD video.

Naturally, the second option is better and the most flexible, because software MPEG2 encoders are usually better than most hardware solutions, and you can still cut your source clips, re-arrange them, add effects or transitions etc., before going for the final output. Also, most standalone hardware MPEG encoding devices might have a problem with "true" 16x9 sources, which *could* be mistakenly converted into "letterboxed widescreen".

Ooops... looks like I'm starting to complicate things a bit.

Go here for a good introduction to camcorders:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor....me/camcorderintro.html

Then read the entire section on camcorders (you WILL find it useful):
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor....center/home/?listAll=1

Then have a look (and bookmark it!!!) at the www.videohelp.com website:
http://www.videohelp.com/capture

... last, but not least, come back here and ask us for more details, if you still need them. Cheers!

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Most people who use DVD camcorders note that there are many compression artifacts caused by the on-the-fly encoding process, which isn't flexible enough. After all, a mini DVD only has 1.4 GB of available space, or about a third of a "normal" 4.7 GB DVD... when you think about the fact that once you go over 2 Hrs of video on a DVD-5 you either need to drop the resolution to half-D1 or get used to macroblocks, you realize that mini-DVD camcorders are not such a hot idea.

I have three digital video sources: my old, trusted Digital8 camcorder, bought in 2001; my Canon S3IS - which does beautiful MJPEG video in 640x480@30 fps; and a new miniDV Canon ZR100 camcorder, acquired for a mere $149 BNIB... and I bought it because it's the only one that films in real widescreen (16x9) without sacrificing resolution.

However, all these digital cameras require you to follow one of two procedures to produce a DVD viewable on your home DVD system: either record the resulting videos (via analog or digital - RCA/composite OR USB/FireWire/1394) onto a standalone DVD recorder, OR download the video onto your PC (mostly through FireWire or USB), and use any video authoring application to produce a good DVD. A third option would be to feed the video (usually through the analog connections) into a MPEG Encoder (PCI or USB-based) on our PC, which would give you ready-to-burn DVD video.

Naturally, the second option is better and the most flexible, because software MPEG2 encoders are usually better than most hardware solutions, and you can still cut your source clips, re-arrange them, add effects or transitions etc., before going for the final output. Also, most standalone hardware MPEG encoding devices might have a problem with "true" 16x9 sources, which *could* be mistakenly converted into "letterboxed widescreen".

Ooops... looks like I'm starting to complicate things a bit.

Go here for a good introduction to camcorders:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor....me/camcorderintro.html

Then read the entire section on camcorders (you WILL find it useful):
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor....center/home/?listAll=1

Then have a look (and bookmark it!!!) at the www.videohelp.com website:
http://www.videohelp.com/capture

... last, but not least, come back here and ask us for more details, if you still need them. Cheers!

wow, thanks!

i got some reading to do

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Well, you're welcome!

Also check this site out - it's the equivalent of dpreview.com in the digital world, only that it's focused exclusively on video cameras:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

If you feel overwhelmed, head off to their spin-off site:
http://www.easycamcorders.com/

 

[brikis98]

Ok, I updated the requirements with a bit more detail after doing some reading. I'll be looking through the review sites for something that matches our needs, but I'd appreciate some personal recommendations.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

LOL, you forgot to add the most important part - budget!

I'd say, based on what you added to your OP, that the best solution you can look for - right now - is one of those:
http://camcorderinfo.pricegrab...+Results/sortby=priceA

IfI had the money, I'd probably pick one of those two:

http://camcorderinfo.pricegrab....php/masterid=34147262
and
http://camcorderinfo.pricegrab....php/masterid=32868415

The Sanyo uses SDHC cards, which means you take the card from the camera, copy the contents on your computer, and you're ready for whatever you want to do with it... BUT it's only 720p, has lo-res video in poor low-light conditions, and you can't buy a secondary battery, for extended shooting sessions

The Canon uses DV tapes as well as SD cards (!) and is bulkier, but is much more customizable, not to mention it has 1080p resolution...

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
LOL, you forgot to add the most important part - budget!

I'd say, based on what you added to your OP, that the best solution you can look for - right now - is one of those:
http://camcorderinfo.pricegrab...+Results/sortby=priceA

IfI had the money, I'd probably pick one of those two:

http://camcorderinfo.pricegrab....php/masterid=34147262
and
http://camcorderinfo.pricegrab....php/masterid=32868415

The Sanyo uses SDHC cards, which means you take the card from the camera, copy the contents on your computer, and you're ready for whatever you want to do with it... BUT it's only 720p, has lo-res video in poor low-light conditions, and you can't buy a secondary battery, for extended shooting sessions

The Canon uses DV tapes as well as SD cards (!) and is bulkier, but is much more customizable, not to mention it has 1080p resolution...

indeed i did, long day, what can i say

budget is up there now. I'm not impressed with the reviews for the VPC-HD2 and the HV20 is a bit on the pricey side... HV10 is more in my price range, but is a quite weak in some areas: terrible low light performance, audio issues, horrible ergonomics...

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Alas, not much freedom in either direction - since you want HD... I'd say go with the HV20. I've seen VPC-HD2 footage, and wasn't impressed.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Alas, not much freedom in either direction - since you want HD... I'd say go with the HV20. I've seen VPC-HD2 footage, and wasn't impressed.

Edit - this is not a reply to Anita. Just an added comment.

Yep, HV20 and Sony HC5 are the contenders in this space. Don't enough about the new JVC and Panasonic to comment. Light is OK, but the SD Panasonic is a little better. The CMOS chips are getting better at light, but not there. For the Sony, I have the hotshoe light for under $25 (3W), but have not used it yet.

I just like tape because you have an archive. HDD and SD means you need to keep it on a hard drive for the most part. DVD writables just are not as reliable as mag tape yet.

 

[brikis98]

bump

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: brikis98
bump

Hate to say it, but you really have the answer. The Canon HV10, HV20, or Sony HC5 cover it. Check out the reviews at Camcorderinfo.com.

If you want to see some application discussions, join us at DV Info Net. The Consumer High Definition section covers about everything you can try with a bunch of indies and video pros doing the discussing. Note that it is a real name forum if you want to join. George Ellis there.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: brikis98
bump

Hate to say it, but you really have the answer. The Canon HV10, HV20, or Sony HC5 cover it. Check out the reviews at Camcorderinfo.com.

If you want to see some application discussions, join us at DV Info Net. The Consumer High Definition section covers about everything you can try with a bunch of indies and video pros doing the discussing. Note that it is a real name forum if you want to join. George Ellis there.

i think you may be right... only the hv10 really fits my price range, with the hv20 and hc5 just out of it...

maybe we'll need to consider an SD camera. however, is it worth investing in SD technology now? or are they excellent bargains now that HD is coming out?

EDIT: forgot to mention that most of the recorded videos will be watched on LCD's: large 720p and 1080p TV's and an occasional computer monitor.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: brikis98
i think you may be right... only the hv10 really fits my price range, with the hv20 and hc5 just out of it...

maybe we'll need to consider an SD camera. however, is it worth investing in SD technology now? or are they excellent bargains now that HD is coming out?

EDIT: forgot to mention that most of the recorded videos will be watched on LCD's: large 720p and 1080p TV's and an occasional computer monitor.

SD still plays on those screens

If you think SD, look at the Panasonic 3CCD cameras. The lowend is the PVR-GS320. The 5xx series may be too high, but you can get reviews and general prices at camcorderinfo.com.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: brikis98
i think you may be right... only the hv10 really fits my price range, with the hv20 and hc5 just out of it...

maybe we'll need to consider an SD camera. however, is it worth investing in SD technology now? or are they excellent bargains now that HD is coming out?

EDIT: forgot to mention that most of the recorded videos will be watched on LCD's: large 720p and 1080p TV's and an occasional computer monitor.

SD still plays on those screens

If you think SD, look at the Panasonic 3CCD cameras. The lowend is the PVR-GS320. The 5xx series may be too high, but you can get reviews and general prices at camcorderinfo.com.

of course it plays, but i wish i could see the real-life difference in quality between HD and SD to decide if HD is worth it or not...

 

[Pabster]

Panasonic has a new flash-based HD cam at $799. I'll have to look for the model number, can't get it off my tongue right now.

The Sanyo HD2 is fantastic and not a whole lot more (also flash-based)

You can't go wrong with the 3CCD Panny's if you can stomach MiniDV.