What to do?

[suklee]

My Shuttle's power supply blew and instead of putting $100+ towards a replacement power supply, I'm thinking of going back to a full tower with Intel -- I haven't had an Intel nor a tower in YEARS. :shocked:

This is what I currently have:

AMD x2 4200+ skt 939
2GB Corsair Value DDR400
Inno3D 7800GTX (connects 2 LCD monitors via DVI)
36GB Raptor SATA
500GB Seagate SATA
160GB Hitachi PATA
Asus DVD burner
Vista Home Premium (32-bit)

Only thing certain for my new build is that I want 4GB RAM minimum.

I used to game a fair bit but don't anymore -- if my 7800GTX can still handle it, I might give TF2, BF2, BF2142 another try.

Nowadays I spend all day in front of my PC doing web development. Main applications used: Firefox with TONS of tabs open (lately I've been noticing FF taking up 500MB memory), IE, Safari, Opera, Adobe Fireworks, Dreamweaver. I also have a localhost dev server running in the background all the time.



Now, my questions:

1. 1. Dual-core or quad-core? I am assuming a quad-core CPU will "last longer" before the next big upgrade. Is this true? I glanced through a few threads here and most suggested just the dual core. If a Q6600 ($222) is overkill for my use let me know.
   
   2. RAM choice - does A-Data DDR800 2x2GB (CL4) kit for $83 sound ok?
   
   3. PSU - I was quoted the DELTA ServerPower 550W GPS-550ABA CO3 for $75. I want something that's powerful enough yet quiet and the shop said this was a quiet unit.
   
   4. Motherboard, Case - I will check out the other forums for more options but would welcome any opinions. I don't want a gigantic case, but nothing as small as a Shuttle either
   

Here are some local prices (converted to USD) of components I may be looking at:

CPUs
Intel Pentium Dual-Core E2180 (2GHz) CPU BOX $ 72.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E4600 (2.4GHz) CPU/2M BOX $ 123.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 (3GHz) CPU/6M BOX $213.00
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600(2.4G)8M BOX (G0/95W) $ 222.00

RAM
OCZ OCZ2N800SR4GK DDR2 800 4G kit (2x2G) $ 136.00
OCZ OCZ2P10664GK DDR2 1066 4G Kit(2Gx2) $ 146.00

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

If you have a bunch of programs open at the same time, I would think that quad-core is the way to go.

If any of your apps support SSE4, perhaps Q9300 would be a better choice, although $60 or so more.

Other stuff seems OK to me.

 

[twistedlogic]

Are you planning on overclocking your CPU?

That A-Data kit should work just fine. No need to worry about expensive RAM when using Intel (unless your OC is extreme).

As for the PSU, DELTA and quiet are usually not in the same sentence. Not sure about that PSU though, as long as it has a low speed 120mm fan it should run silent.

And as for a case, without knowing what you want (silence or cooling), I'd suggest the new Mini Antec P180. I just went to the full size P180 (huge) and I just love how silent this thing is. I was so used to "hearing" my PC boot up, now I can't even tell its running. Only problem is the price on these things, ~160$ on the egg as of now. A cheap alternative might be the CM Centurion 590 (65$), if you don't mind the blue LED's on the fans.

 

[bryanW1995]

Post a thread about the psu in the psu forum, jonnyguru is there most of the time and typically has great advice.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: twistedlogic
As for the PSU, DELTA and quiet are usually not in the same sentence. Not sure about that PSU though

I was going to say exactly the same thing. Server PSU's and quiet are almost always polar opposites.

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Post a thread about the psu in the psu forum, jonnyguru is there most of the time and typically has great advice.

Good advice. If anyone around here would know, it would be Jonny. BTW, Bryan, I do know how you spell your name, I just have a nephew named "Brian", and am more used to seeing it spelled that way. Combine that with my horrible short-term memory, and well...

 

[jaqie]

You *COULD* backpack a standard supply out the back of the SFF case... A really good supply potent enough for that system can be had for $50 shipped if you look around

 

[suklee]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
If you have a bunch of programs open at the same time, I would think that quad-core is the way to go.

Anyone else have any input on the quad? The only downside I've seen mentioned were the excess heat and lack of support for it in games. I wonder if games actually run slower in quad-core if there is no support.

If any of your apps support SSE4, perhaps Q9300 would be a better choice, although $60 or so more.

Didn't know the Q9300 has SSE4 - I don't think my apps currently support it, so probably not a major deciding factor for me.

Originally posted by: twistedlogic
Are you planning on overclocking your CPU?

I'll try to push it a bit, but not crazily into OC'ing. If it doesn't OC "well" it won't bother me that much.

That A-Data kit should work just fine. No need to worry about expensive RAM when using Intel (unless your OC is extreme).

Cool.

As for the PSU, DELTA and quiet are usually not in the same sentence. Not sure about that PSU though, as long as it has a low speed 120mm fan it should run silent.

Thanks, this is great advice. Can always count on an AT user's honest opinion more than a computer shop. [Should have came on here for research prior to buying my Dell 2208WFP which displays color gradients horribly :disgust:]

And as for a case, without knowing what you want (silence or cooling), I'd suggest the new Mini Antec P180. I just went to the full size P180 (huge) and I just love how silent this thing is. I was so used to "hearing" my PC boot up, now I can't even tell its running. Only problem is the price on these things, ~160$ on the egg as of now. A cheap alternative might be the CM Centurion 590 (65$), if you don't mind the blue LED's on the fans.

A balance of both would be nice, but if I had to pick one, I would favor silence over cooling. I will look into the Mini Antec P180. I saw the Antec NSK4000 in person and it looks quite nice at $42 without PSU - not sure how it compares to the Mini P180.

edit: looks like the Mini P180 only supports Micro ATX, this might limit my motherboard choice?

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Post a thread about the psu in the psu forum, jonnyguru is there most of the time and typically has great advice.

Will do, thanks.

Originally posted by: jaqie
You *COULD* backpack a standard supply out the back of the SFF case... A really good supply potent enough for that system can be had for $50 shipped if you look around

I have a spare SFF ATX power supply, but unfortunately my SN25P's motherboard uses some proprietary connectors... see this link.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Which Shuttle do you have? I love mine. If the PSU dies I'll simply replace it. I can't live without that machine for awhile.

Also, one good way for you to go with the Intel rig you're building is to go with VMWare for your localhost server. Then you can get more use out of a quad and save on your electric bills. Highly recommend it. I've started using it on my Vista rig.

Yeah, Jaqie is right, you could simply piggyback a PSU. How clever! I never thought of that. That would enable you to get all your files transferred.

If you want more than 4 GB you will need to use Vista 64-bit. (XP 64-bit has little to no driver support.)

 

[suklee]

I have (had) the SN25P. I'll have to spend $100 on the power supply and was thinking I'd rather invest it towards a newer desktop, more cost-effective tower solution...

This is the 2nd Shuttle that I've had with a power supply blown out. The previous one was an older SN45G.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: Kai920
I have (had) the SN25P. I'll have to spend $100 on the power supply and was thinking I'd rather invest it towards a newer desktop, more cost-effective tower solution...

This is the 2nd Shuttle that I've had with a power supply blown out. The previous one was an older SN45G.

I know, they're kinda notorious for that. I've been really lucky with mine. But I like mine so much a new PSU wouldn't be a problem, so long as the mobo wasn't scorched along with it... I'm even toying with replacing the horrid old video card I have with a 9600GT. Mine is the same generation as yours! I cannot believe you pulled off running a 7800GTX in there! No wonder the PSU blew.

Do check out VMware. It could be very useful for you.

 

[suklee]

Yeah the reliability is a bit too hit-and-miss for me. My wife's SN45G is almost 5 years old and going strong -- not a single problem since purchase. Physical space used to be a big concern - hence the Shuttles - but now that it's not so much of a factor, I can deal with the extra size by going with a mid / full tower while saving a significant amount of money.

Aside: How will VMware help me?

edit: Yep, the 7800GTX could have had something to do with the PSU blowing. That and the 3 hard drives as well! (although I've only added the 500GB within the past 6 months)

 

[Dadofamunky]

You can install and run an instance of ANY server operating system in a virtual machine in a separate window on your system. Linux, NT, 2003, whatever. I BELIEVE (don't hold me to it) that each virtual machine can have a core dedicated to it. Better yet, the Workstation version is free, which is enough to do exactly what you need. This is a huge benefit of quad-cores.

Here is a place to get more info:

http://www.vmware.com/communit...ontent/vmug/index.html

And to get the actual software:

http://www.vmware.com/

 

[spdfreak]

I would go with an E7200 (135.00) on a good 1333 FSB board. Lots of those available cheap. These cpu's are known to OC to 4GHz without too much problem. So setting the FSB at 1333 will get you almost 3.2 GHz at a stock FSB and voltages. That is a lot of horsepower for the money!

 

[suklee]

Time to revisit this as I am ready to pounce.

How has the CPU / motherboard hardware landscape changed in the past 4 months? Is a quad-core still better for me since I need the multitasking capabilities? (ie. having lots of apps open at the same time) or is a higher GHz duo core that spdfreak suggested better?

Still looking to use my old 7800GTX and max it out for as long as possible.

These were the new parts I was looking at before: Corsair VX550W, GA-EP35-DS3L P35, 2GBx2 DDR2-800.

 

[biostud]

The corsair VX500W is a great choice, another option would be the corsair HX520W which has detachable cables.

I would suggest a Quad. It might not be as fast as a faster clocked dualcore, in certain programs. But the Quad will be significantly faster than the dual in programs optimized for multiple processors. And it will also be more "futureproof".

 

[suklee]

OK, thanks. so I am fairly set on these two: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600(2.4G)8M BOX (G0/95W), Corsair VX550W

Would 2 sticks of this RAM be ok? A-DATA DDR-2 800 Mhz 2G Gaming Edition. Going to be running Vista Home Premium.

Need to narrow down motherboard + case choices. I'll take a look at the motherboard forum...

 

[suklee]

OK the deed is done.

I got the Q6600, A-Data DDR2 RAM (2x2GB sticks), the Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L motherboard, Corsair PS-VX550W power supply, and a Cooler Master Elite 334 case.

Installing Vista Home Premium now. Hopefully it's not a difficult process to transfer the license over from my dead Shuttle. I'm terribly excited! Haven't had an Intel nor a full tower in years

 

[perdomot]

I wanted to ask why you didn't consider a newer AMD rig if OCing wasn't an important factor? Also did you get a new hdd for the rig?

 

[suklee]

Hmm dunno really - I just wanted to go back to Intel this time after so many years with AMD. I will overclock and see how far I can push it, but it won't bother me one bit to leave it at stock... (ok I'm lying, maybe it will bother me... but I'll just see how far it can go on stock voltage)

I'm using an old Raptor 34GB as the C: for Vista (wonder if it's too small?) and a 500GB Seagate SATA drive for everything else. I also could have put in a 160GB IDE drive, but it's manufactured in 2004 and I think I'm going to relegate it to external backup duties. I have a spare USB2 external case for it...

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: jaqie
You *COULD* backpack a standard supply out the back of the SFF case... A really good supply potent enough for that system can be had for $50 shipped if you look around

That's a very good idea. I have a shuttle unit that runs like a champ, and I know I can get a replacement PS, but if for some reason I can't I thought of that as a good workaround.

By the way, for virtualization it's best to have a 64-bit OS and 8 GB of RAM. More RAM in each VM is always helpful for performance. I have Vista Home Premium 64-bit and I'm very happy with it, esp. after SP1.

 

[daveybrat]

Try selling your X2 4200+ on the forums here or on ebay. You should be able to fetch a good price for that as socket 939 dual-cores still command a nice premium on Ebay.

 

[suklee]

Originally posted by: daveybrat
Try selling your X2 4200+ on the forums here or on ebay. You should be able to fetch a good price for that as socket 939 dual-cores still command a nice premium on Ebay.

Thanks, didn't know that - I'll give it a try!

I have to give M$ some money to ship me the 64-bit DVD of Vista, maybe I'll look into more RAM & Virtualization at some point in the future...

 

[suklee]

So I went into BIOS, changed the FSB to 333 and adjusted the RAM ratios and I am now at 3.0GHz. Didn't touch the voltages or anything else.

I haven't done any stability testing but will try out some TF2 once it's finished updating.

 

[suklee]

Originally posted by: daveybrat
Try selling your X2 4200+ on the forums here or on ebay. You should be able to fetch a good price for that as socket 939 dual-cores still command a nice premium on Ebay.

Wow, you were absolutely right. My x2 939 is indeed getting good attention on ebay

Thanks again!

 

[bryanW1995]

I sold an opteron 180 (same as x2 4800+ skt 939) for $110 on fs/ft about 6 mos ago. I wouldn't be surprised to see you get $100+ for your 4200+ on ebay today b/c supply is so low on skt939 these days.