What this nation needs is to ask our kids to do LESS

[JEDI]

CNN:
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/05/rebellion-of-the-innovation-mom/?hpt=hp_c2

Rebellion against the Tiger Moms:
what this nation needs to be innovative and entrepreneurial is to ask our kids to do less.

Innovation requires creativity; entrepreneurship requires a willingness to break the rules. The jam packed, highly structured days of elite children are carefully calculated to create Ivy League-worthy resumes. They reinforce habits of discipline and conformity, programming remarkably well-rounded and often superb young people who can play near concert-quality violin, speak two languages, volunteer in their communities and get straight A’s.

These are the students that I see in my Princeton classes; I am often in awe of their accomplishments and teaching them is a joy. But I strongly suspect that they will not be the inventors of the next "new new thing".


um.. no.
what this nation needs is MORE parents to push their kids to excel, instead of sticking them in front of the TV/Xbox.

DISCUSS!

 

[PottedMeat]

we need more jeff lebowskis, man.

 

[Wanescotting]

Kids need to be allowed to imagine and be creative, and learn when to break the rules........those who follow the RULES all the time will never, ever be exceptional at anything!

 

[mmntech]

I agree with this actually in a sense. Kids today don't have a lot of unstructured playtime. Every expert says kids need to learn and explore on their own. The ones that do tend to become better adults. Take a look at the boomers and their parents who got shoved outside until the streetlights came on. I never see the neighbourhood kids out playing. If they aren't at soccer practise, they're inside on the Xbox.

I think if kids live lives guided by rigid structure, they don't learn how to think outside the proverbial box. Free play teaches them how to do this. Remember that Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were both college dropouts, and Satoshi Taijiri became filthy rich building a videogame that recreated bug catching he did as a kid.

 

[lxskllr]

Kids need to be allowed to imagine and be creative, and learn when to break the rules........those who follow the RULES all the time will never, ever be exceptional at anything!

^^^

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Innovation comes from imaginative thinking. While there's no way I know to train for that, there's definitely a way to discourage it. Too much structure kills the imagination.

 

[ElFenix]

'go play in the traffic'

 

[Wanescotting]

Innovation comes from imaginative thinking. While there's no way I know to train for that, there's definitely a way to discourage it. Too much structure kills the imagination.

Yes there is........learn where the boundaries are.....only way to do that is to break the rules on occasion

 

[shortylickens]

Yeah because the lack of discipline and focus is working so well for American kids these days.

 

[Ruptga]

Excelling and being self-motivated aren't mutually exclusive. The writer is suggesting that parents pursue excellence in a different way - in one that promotes creativity rather than submission to social expectations.

 

[Wanescotting]

Yeah because the lack of discipline and focus is working so well for American kids these days.

Kids still need structure and discipline, to be sure......just not to the point where they need an agenda to achieve it.... i.e. -->> G.I Joes @ 11:30 then video games @ 2:30, etc....my friends and I played until we got bored, then embarked on something else.

 

[tfinch2]

What kids need now a days is play outside, have a couple of rock fights, and be bored once in awhile.

I have a ton of friends with young kids who are constantly chauffeuring them around to soccer practice, swim meets, karate, basket weaving, etc at all hours of the day.

 

[yhelothar]

This fact has been well known for ages. Creativity researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi studied 90 influential people that has made a profound impact in their field of interest including nobel laureates and best selling authors. He found that they all shared certain traits. First of all, their success was a byproduct of them just doing what they enjoyed doing. These people didn't chase success, they did what they did for its own sake and not for some extrinsic reward. And unsurprisingly, it was found that these people were not stars academically either and few went to top schools.

Sir Ken Robinson also presents data that shows that in a test developed to measure outside the box thinking. The results showed that while highly intelligent people scored high, kindergarteners performed best at the task, and as one grows older, the ability diminishes. There are plenty of data that shows the rigid structures of our education is stripping the creativity out of our children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

 

[alkemyst]

all these parents pushing their kids to ace all their classes are a laugh...they aren't even teaching half the shit we had in the late 80's.

Book reports are now on magazine articles. Homework is cookie cutter. etc.

No one wants to work anymore and everyone wins!

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Less structure is better -

These kids are unable to make a decision on their own, unable to work well with others, usually have zero dating skills, will never be able to manage people, unable to speak up, and have no idea what they like - only what their parents told them to like.

 

[Zebo]

You need to know what the rules are before you can break them. You think a painter like Picasso couldn't paint a perfect portrait?

 

[JMapleton]

There is a reason why most wealthy entrepreneurs are college drop outs, they know not to "play the game" and they create their own game.

We need less "Tiger Moms." A nation full of "yes sirs" will foster no innovation.

 

[TheSlamma]

Kids need to be allowed to imagine and be creative, and learn when to break the rules........those who follow the RULES all the time will never, ever be exceptional at anything!

Don't rules have to be enforced for them to break em? if you allow em to break the rules then you are making an exception.. not really rule breaking at that point. They need to do it on their own.

 

[drebo]

um.. no.
what this nation needs is MORE parents to push their kids to excel, instead of sticking them in front of the TV/Xbox.

DISCUSS!

It swings both ways.

Freedom does not necessarily lead to laziness. Lack of supervision leads to laziness.

What we need to do is to stop subjecting kids to a random curriculum determined by bureaucrats with no parenting, real teaching, or real business experience. Yes, there are certain basics that all children should learn, but outside of those basics (which should not take 12 years to teach), kids should be free from an early age to explore their own interests. If a kid wants to be an auto mechanic, he should be able to start training for that path at 14. I'd have loved to take programming classes in high school, but there were none.

We need more charter schools and magnet schools to focus education. Right now, kids are spending their most formative years learning information that's completely useless to them in the real world. They're learning how to take the SATs and how to succeed in a liberal arts college. The majority of jobs don't require a college degree, particularly one from a liberal arts program. A degree in philosphy doesn't do much to help a plumber.

Our focus on liberal arts from K thru 12 is what's doing the most damage. We can be very demanding of students, but that doesn't mean that we can allow them the freedom to pursue their own interests.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

um.. no.
what this nation needs is MORE parents to push their kids to excel, instead of sticking them in front of the TV/Xbox.

This isn't incompatible with what the article says.

 

[ShawnD1]

Innovation comes from imaginative thinking. While there's no way I know to train for that, there's definitely a way to discourage it. Too much structure kills the imagination.

Reminds me of that cracked article about things parents do to set their kids up for failure.

http://www.cracked.com/article/195_7-things-good-parents-do-that-screw-up-kids-life/

#6. Teaching Them To Be Themselves

You'd Think...

Peer pressure is the thing that makes kids smoke cigarettes, do drugs and read pornographic magazines by the time they reach middle school. As countless PSAs and after-school specials taught us, we must teach our kids to be themselves and never give two halves of a fuck about what their "friends" think.

But in Reality...

Remember that smelly kid in school, who never washed his hair, had no friends and once pissed in the sink at that party he wasn't invited to? That's your kid, without peer pressure. A study conducted at the University of Virginia showed that kids who were exposed to peer pressure around the ages of 12 and 13 turned out to be way more well-adjusted than the ones who weren't. They better understood the need to accommodate and make compromises when confronted with social pressure, rather than the "I'll just take my ball and go home" attitude they adopt otherwise.


The kids who were taught to be themselves no matter what didn't become walking clones of James Dean. They actually turned out less engaged, socially challenged and statistically less intelligent, their GPAs dropping almost an entire letter grade.

Maybe more importantly, when you actually give a damn about how people view you, it develops a skill of reading the most subtle changes in people's emotional states, leading ultimately to a heightened sense of empathy. In this socially awkward age of the Internet, it turns out peer pressure at the right time can basically give you superpowers.

Sounds about right. Putting a bit of pressure on kids to work hard and stay in line will keep them out of trouble. If you encourage your kids to test limits and boundaries, they might end up testing the wrong ones.

 

[Kadarin]

The thing about so called tiger moms is that it seems to me that they would end up raising some really unhappy children.

 

[yhelothar]

Reminds me of that cracked article about things parents do to set their kids up for failure.

http://www.cracked.com/article/195_7-things-good-parents-do-that-screw-up-kids-life/



Sounds about right. Putting a bit of pressure on kids to work hard and stay in line will keep them out of trouble. If you encourage your kids to test limits and boundaries, they might end up testing the wrong ones.

It's nice to hear about an opposing perspective. However, if you read the study, the measures for success/failure is a student's GPA, more likely to be in a healthy romantic relationship, had no problems with drinking.

I don't think any of these are good indicators of someone being potentially innovative or entrepreneurial. As I mentioned previously, research shows that people incredibly influential in their fields typically weren't stars academically. It's also often said that being in a romantic relationship early in life can impede a person in their own endeavors as relationships require self-compromise. And drinking... heck that can easily fuel innovation and creativity.

But you're right that kids not given structure might get them into trouble. But we're all about learning from our mistakes. Innovation and creativity requires one to step into a vulnerable state of the unknown, and this can certainly be risky.

However that's not to say that kids do not need any structure at all and should be free to do as they please. Certainly good principles should be taught and followed.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

This fact has been well known for ages. Creativity researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi studied 90 influential people that has made a profound impact in their field of interest including nobel laureates and best selling authors. He found that they all shared certain traits. First of all, their success was a byproduct of them just doing what they enjoyed doing. These people didn't chase success, they did what they did for its own sake and not for some extrinsic reward. And unsurprisingly, it was found that these people were not stars academically either and few went to top schools.

Sir Ken Robinson also presents data that shows that in a test developed to measure outside the box thinking. The results showed that while highly intelligent people scored high, kindergarteners performed best at the task, and as one grows older, the ability diminishes. There are plenty of data that shows the rigid structures of our education is stripping the creativity out of our children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

That's a great little video :thumbsup:

 

[Wyndru]

I agree with this actually in a sense. Kids today don't have a lot of unstructured playtime. Every expert says kids need to learn and explore on their own. The ones that do tend to become better adults. Take a look at the boomers and their parents who got shoved outside until the streetlights came on. I never see the neighbourhood kids out playing. If they aren't at soccer practise, they're inside on the Xbox.

I think if kids live lives guided by rigid structure, they don't learn how to think outside the proverbial box. Free play teaches them how to do this. Remember that Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were both college dropouts, and Satoshi Taijiri became filthy rich building a videogame that recreated bug catching he did as a kid.

I agree with this. Just the other day I had a conversation with another parent and she asked if I've thought about which sport my 11 month old daughter was going to play. She warned me that "times have changed" and I need to start getting her interested in sports at around 3-4 years old. She also mentioned that for the kid to be successful in the sport they should remain in the same sport all throughout their early years, otherwise they won't make the cuts when they get older.

I really hope she was exaggerating, because I plan on letting my daughter make her own decisions about what she want to do with her time (within reason of course). It's crazy how structured kid's lives have become, and how many decisions are made by the parents. I remember just riding my bike in the woods and the whole neighborhood playing together when I was a kid, now you rarely see groups of kids playing. And when I grew bored playing baseball, my mom let me quit...she didn't force me to keep playing.