I keep reading that car will be equiped with 42 Volt electrical systems. Any reason for going this route?
What the purpose of the 42Volt Electrical systems coming out for cars soon?
- Thread starter Adul
- Start date
So you get more of a zap when you cross the battery posts with a crecent wrench. (Been there, done that)
I read an article about it a while back. Some of the reasons were better gas mileage, due to a/c, power steering, etc. not running off of the engine. Reliability should go up, as all the new electric items will have fewer moving parts. It will require caution when working on them though, you can get a heck of a shock.
that is one thing i can imagine happening. Now how about car audio? I guess amps will need to be redesigned to take advantage of the extra voltage. I see them carrying DC-DC power supplies 
> Any reason for going this route?
Efficiency (they claim they can pull out another 4-6% mpg from the change). Also, the current system was designed long before everyone had 1000 watt stereos, gps systems, nintendo and tv's in the back. The current systems are too easy to overload, this will provide some overhead for these type of accessories.
The first ones will be split systems, downconverting the voltages to the current voltages so not everything needs to be swapped out at once. Moving forward you'll see less and less of the legacy components and more of the 42v only stuff.
Bill
Efficiency (they claim they can pull out another 4-6% mpg from the change). Also, the current system was designed long before everyone had 1000 watt stereos, gps systems, nintendo and tv's in the back. The current systems are too easy to overload, this will provide some overhead for these type of accessories.
The first ones will be split systems, downconverting the voltages to the current voltages so not everything needs to be swapped out at once. Moving forward you'll see less and less of the legacy components and more of the 42v only stuff.
Bill
With all the electrical accesories on cars, 12V is reaching its limits. The first cars will likely be dual voltage 12V-42V hybrids. 42V will allow the use of smaller motors in addition to being able to supply power for devices impossible now. Electronically controlled variable valve trains will be possible. Ford is designing an explorer that will use instant-on function, at a stop the engine will shut off, and will start instantly upon acceleration from the stop. Alternators will be a thing of the past, most manufacturers will switch to a generator/starter unit. Vehicles will incorporate elements of ICE/EV hybrids such as regenerative braking. It should be interesting.
The greatest downfall of 42V system is problems with lighting. A 12V headlight has a single wound, thick tungsten filament and it is quite efficient and very resistant to vibration. 120V bulb of same wattage has much much longer filament and they accomplish this by double wound filament. A double wound filament use a very thin tungsten and formed into a coil and this coil is formed into another coil. This design is much more delicate to vibration.
When you increase the voltage, you need to make the filament thinner and longer and side effects to this is as I said above, vulnerability to filament damage and shorter life due to thinner filament.
When you increase the voltage, you need to make the filament thinner and longer and side effects to this is as I said above, vulnerability to filament damage and shorter life due to thinner filament.
<< The greatest downfall of 42V system is problems with lighting. A 12V headlight has a single wound, thick tungsten filament and it is quite efficient and very resistant to vibration. 120V bulb of same wattage has much much longer filament and they accomplish this by double wound filament. A double wound filament use a very thin tungsten and formed into a coil and this coil is formed into another coil. This design is much more delicate to vibration.
When you increase the voltage, you need to make the filament thinner and longer and side effects to this is as I said above, vulnerability to filament damage and shorter life due to thinner filament. >>
They can drop the voltage for the lights is suppose. I wonder what they will do about this one.
<< They can drop the voltage for the lights is suppose. I wonder what they will do about this one. >>
It is not an easy task to drop voltage on a DC circuit. You'll need a DC-DC converter, which is basically a switching power supply or electronic ballast. Reliability is an issue. High current swithmode regulator has much higher incidence of sudden failure than linear power supply or standard AC parts in general. Just ask any electrician about reliability between magnetic and electronic ballast. You might not notice it in one or two, but when you install thousands of ballasts in a commercial buildings, electronic ballast has much higher initial failure rate.
<<
<< They can drop the voltage for the lights is suppose. I wonder what they will do about this one. >>
It is not an easy task to drop voltage on a DC circuit. You'll need a DC-DC converter, which is basically a switching power supply or electronic ballast. Reliability is an issue. High current swithmode regulator has much higher incidence of sudden failure than linear power supply or standard AC parts in general. Just ask any electrician about reliability between magnetic and electronic ballast. You might not notice it in one or two, but when you install thousands of ballasts in a commercial buildings, electronic ballast has much higher initial failure rate. >>
actually it is really easy to drop the voltage on a DC source. you just add a source resistance before the load resistance and it will divide the voltage by ((Rl)*42)/(Rl+Rs)
Jerboy
You are correct for stepping UP a DC voltage. Stepping it down as Cattlegod indicated is fairly easy. The circuits to step voltage down are already in much of the electronics in your car. The question will be what peak voltage they can handle.
As for the light bulbs, it would be easy to design lightbulbs for 42 volts by using a different material compositon to increase the voltage drop.
You are correct for stepping UP a DC voltage. Stepping it down as Cattlegod indicated is fairly easy. The circuits to step voltage down are already in much of the electronics in your car. The question will be what peak voltage they can handle.
As for the light bulbs, it would be easy to design lightbulbs for 42 volts by using a different material compositon to increase the voltage drop.
hmm...i like anand the way it is w/o a car forum. Besides, you wouldn't have all the nice flames like i got in my 'earth shattering subs" thread.
-=bmacd=-
-=bmacd=-
<<
<< The greatest downfall of 42V system is problems with lighting. A 12V headlight has a single wound, thick tungsten filament and it is quite efficient and very resistant to vibration. 120V bulb of same wattage has much much longer filament and they accomplish this by double wound filament. A double wound filament use a very thin tungsten and formed into a coil and this coil is formed into another coil. This design is much more delicate to vibration.
When you increase the voltage, you need to make the filament thinner and longer and side effects to this is as I said above, vulnerability to filament damage and shorter life due to thinner filament. >>
They can drop the voltage for the lights is suppose. I wonder what they will do about this one. >>
naw, just give everyone HID lights
and this is so kewl, current setups just suck. i want gps, high power stereo, plug for laptop etc
<< naw, just give everyone HID lights >>
Actually, HID lights are likely to be implemented for headlights, neon and LEDs are being talked about for taillights.
42 V was selected as it was the highest practical voltage which remains in the SELV category (Safe Extra-Low Voltage). Curiously enought one factor delaying its launch has been agreeing on a design of battery terminal which you can't connect a pair of jump leads to (imagine the damage if you tried to jump a 12V car from 42 V - say bye bye to every electronic circuit). All automotive electrical devices are protected against 24 V (but not 42V).
The high voltage circuit should also be able to reduce vehicle weight by using thinner power cabling - higher voltage means lower current for the same power, while at the same time reducing the power losses in the wiring.
(As an aside, many manufacturers are looking into a network based system for controlling things like tail lights/brake lights/turn indicators - etc. E.g. a light cluster would receive commands from the network, meaning that you don't have to have a seperate circuit for each bulb - only a network uplink and single power input).
The other benefits are reliability - auto A/C systems are notoriously unreliable because the refrigerent leaks - it leaks from the seal where the pully enters the pump - domestic A/Cs, fridges/freezers etc, don't leak because electrical compressors can be hermetically sealed - electrical in-car A/C apart from having offering no friction load to the engine when not running, won't need regular recharging because they have lost their contents.
Finally, it seems that LED technology is reaching the point where they can realistically be used as headlights. Lumileds recently provided components for a concept car lit entirely with LEDs - and they have also recently demonstrated a 120 lumen white LED (typical head light is 1000 lumens).
The high voltage circuit should also be able to reduce vehicle weight by using thinner power cabling - higher voltage means lower current for the same power, while at the same time reducing the power losses in the wiring.
(As an aside, many manufacturers are looking into a network based system for controlling things like tail lights/brake lights/turn indicators - etc. E.g. a light cluster would receive commands from the network, meaning that you don't have to have a seperate circuit for each bulb - only a network uplink and single power input).
The other benefits are reliability - auto A/C systems are notoriously unreliable because the refrigerent leaks - it leaks from the seal where the pully enters the pump - domestic A/Cs, fridges/freezers etc, don't leak because electrical compressors can be hermetically sealed - electrical in-car A/C apart from having offering no friction load to the engine when not running, won't need regular recharging because they have lost their contents.
Finally, it seems that LED technology is reaching the point where they can realistically be used as headlights. Lumileds recently provided components for a concept car lit entirely with LEDs - and they have also recently demonstrated a 120 lumen white LED (typical head light is 1000 lumens).
From what I have beeen hearing, most will still use 12V lighting systems. Lowering the 42V to 12v will be done using pulse width modulation tomake it seem to the bulb that it's only getting 12V
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