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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,232
4,869
136
Oh look, another Republican terrorist insurrectionist.

Oregon Republicans call for expulsion of GOP lawmaker filmed plotting ahead of Capitol breach | Salon.com

"We are talking about setting up Operation Hall Pass, which I don't know anything about; and if you accuse me of knowing something about it, I'll deny it," Nearman explained carefully. "But there would be some person's cell phone which might be…but that is just random numbers that I spewed out; that's not anybody's actual cell phone."
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
12,120
3,405
136
Oh look, another Republican terrorist insurrectionist.

Oregon Republicans call for expulsion of GOP lawmaker filmed plotting ahead of Capitol breach | Salon.com

"We are talking about setting up Operation Hall Pass, which I don't know anything about; and if you accuse me of knowing something about it, I'll deny it," Nearman explained carefully. "But there would be some person's cell phone which might be…but that is just random numbers that I spewed out; that's not anybody's actual cell phone."

This incident is not a one-off thing. The potential is always there in the Repub party's ranks where their self-anointed militiamen and women are driven to action by the contrived hate and fear campaign the party elders have fomented among them. They're chomping at the bit waiting for more opportunities to "express their patriotism" in spectacular fashion, the more noteworthy, the better.

Facism is in vogue, where the term has been "reinvented" and "repurposed" into a call to arms by the Repubs in order to save the nation from becoming, as they like to phrase it "a socialist commie state" run by *ahem* "people who don't belong here".
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,232
4,869
136
This incident is not a one-off thing. The potential is always there in the Repub party's ranks where their self-anointed militiamen and women are driven to action by the contrived hate and fear campaign the party elders have fomented among them. They're chomping at the bit waiting for more opportunities to "express their patriotism" in spectacular fashion, the more noteworthy, the better.

Facism is in vogue, where the term has been "reinvented" and "repurposed" into a call to arms by the Repubs in order to save the nation from becoming, as they like to phrase it "a socialist commie state" run by *ahem* "people who don't belong here".
August may not be a joke.
 

compcons

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,854
578
136
Oh look, another Republican terrorist insurrectionist.

Oregon Republicans call for expulsion of GOP lawmaker filmed plotting ahead of Capitol breach | Salon.com

"We are talking about setting up Operation Hall Pass, which I don't know anything about; and if you accuse me of knowing something about it, I'll deny it," Nearman explained carefully. "But there would be some person's cell phone which might be…but that is just random numbers that I spewed out; that's not anybody's actual cell phone."
They are calling for resignation?!?

Dude should minimally be in prison if not executed for treason.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,220
3,584
126
Facism is in vogue, where the term has been "reinvented" and "repurposed" into a call to arms by the Repubs in order to save the nation from becoming, as they like to phrase it "a socialist commie state" run by *ahem* "people who don't belong here".
Yeah, anything other than the super rich living off the labors of the working class is a socialist commie state, according the Mitch McC and the boys. I saw today on ABC network news that the richest guys in America are paying ZERO federal income tax. ZERO! Specifically, Bezos, Musk, they mentioned specifically a couple other guys I can't remember. But basically, it's the 25 richest people. Warren Buffett says he favors a tax rewrite. From 2014 - 2018 (IIRC) he made 23 billion dollars and paid around 20 million federal income tax on that. That's 0.1% tax bracket, people! He noted that the super rich in this country pay a federal income tax rate way way way lower than the average citizen. But the Republicans say that paying for the infrastructure bill by raising taxes on the wealthy is a non-starter. :rolleyes: When are the Republican electorate going to wake up and realize that they've been taken to the cleaners. That the rich are standing on their throats?
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
17,312
2,551
126
Yeah, anything other than the super rich living off the labors of the working class is a socialist commie state, according the Mitch McC and the boys. I saw today on ABC network news that the richest guys in America are paying ZERO federal income tax. ZERO! Specifically, Bezos, Musk, they mentioned specifically a couple other guys I can't remember. But basically, it's the 25 richest people. Warren Buffett says he favors a tax rewrite. From 2014 - 2018 (IIRC) he made 23 billion dollars and paid around 20 million federal income tax on that. That's 0.1% tax bracket, people! He noted that the super rich in this country pay a federal income tax rate way way way lower than the average citizen. But the Republicans say that paying for the infrastructure bill by raising taxes on the wealthy is a non-starter. :rolleyes: When are the Republican electorate going to wake up and realize that they've been taken to the cleaners. That the rich are standing on their throats?
So what was the actual income of each of these super rich people? Does Bezos actually have 150 billion in the bank, or does he have a 150 billion in assets? It makes a really big difference. It's all together possible to be worth millions, and not have enough disposable income to afford a big mac.

What most people seem to be talking about when they say "tax the rich" is an asset tax, not an income tax.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,220
3,584
126
So what was the actual income of each of these super rich people? Does Bezos actually have 150 billion in the bank, or does he have a 150 billion in assets? It makes a really big difference. It's all together possible to be worth millions, and not have enough disposable income to afford a big mac.

What most people seem to be talking about when they say "tax the rich" is an asset tax, not an income tax.
It can be parsed different ways, but the news story was about super rich Americans who have huge income. Thing is, it's not salary or wage income, it's investment income and they exploit loopholes that shelter all of it or nearly all of it. The law is set up to allow the very rich getting very much richer do this without getting taxed and the Republicans leading the Senate and House insist on keeping it that way.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
17,312
2,551
126
It can be parsed different ways, but the news story was about super rich Americans who have huge income. Thing is, it's not salary or wage income, it's investment income and they exploit loopholes that shelter all of it or nearly all of it. The law is set up to allow the very rich getting very much richer do this without getting taxed and the Republicans leading the Senate and House insist on keeping it that way.
That's the point. If that money is invested in a business venture it's not income, you can't go buy that big mac I mentioned with it. The money is sheltered to promote growth. We've now reached the limit of my economics 101 class. I don't know how to fix the problems in the tax system, but I do know that simply saying "tax the rich" isn't the answer everyone seems to think it is.
 

VW MAN

Member
Jun 27, 2020
175
219
76
That's the point. If that money is invested in a business venture it's not income, you can't go buy that big mac I mentioned with it. The money is sheltered to promote growth. We've now reached the limit of my economics 101 class. I don't know how to fix the problems in the tax system, but I do know that simply saying "tax the rich" isn't the answer everyone seems to think it is.
In other words oooohhhhh those poor billionaires...what will we ever do?! That's a pretty fucking pathetic defense you got going on there for the ultra wealthy.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,220
3,584
126
That's the point. If that money is invested in a business venture it's not income, you can't go buy that big mac I mentioned with it. The money is sheltered to promote growth. We've now reached the limit of my economics 101 class. I don't know how to fix the problems in the tax system, but I do know that simply saying "tax the rich" isn't the answer everyone seems to think it is.
If you don't think Jeff Bezos' accountants haven't figured out a way for him to buy a Big Mac without paying income tax on the coin he's using you're one deluded mofo. It's written off, just like his hike into space shortly. It's all written off... he pays NOTHING to the IRS and lives VERY HANDSOMELY. What, you think he's shitting in an outhouse? :rolleyes:
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,163
6,245
136
That's the point. If that money is invested in a business venture it's not income, you can't go buy that big mac I mentioned with it. The money is sheltered to promote growth. We've now reached the limit of my economics 101 class. I don't know how to fix the problems in the tax system, but I do know that simply saying "tax the rich" isn't the answer everyone seems to think it is.
It's a lot more complicated than you are saying. I posted the article on this forum. The post starts with 'pro publica' which is who published it.

Read it, and if you still defend it, well, you got issues.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
28,151
3,496
126
That's the point. If that money is invested in a business venture it's not income, you can't go buy that big mac I mentioned with it. The money is sheltered to promote growth. We've now reached the limit of my economics 101 class. I don't know how to fix the problems in the tax system, but I do know that simply saying "tax the rich" isn't the answer everyone seems to think it is.
Bezos literally has so much wealth he can't possibly use it all. He just spent 500M on two yachts (the superyacht was like 450 and its support ship was 50, IIRC). He could do that 357 more times and still be a billionaire.

Tax the rich is going to work a lot better than tax the poor, that's for damn sure.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
72,161
22,763
136
That's the point. If that money is invested in a business venture it's not income, you can't go buy that big mac I mentioned with it. The money is sheltered to promote growth. We've now reached the limit of my economics 101 class. I don't know how to fix the problems in the tax system, but I do know that simply saying "tax the rich" isn't the answer everyone seems to think it is.
You know as well as all of us that these individuals are not cash poor.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
13,165
8,207
136
That's the point. If that money is invested in a business venture it's not income, you can't go buy that big mac I mentioned with it. The money is sheltered to promote growth. We've now reached the limit of my economics 101 class. I don't know how to fix the problems in the tax system, but I do know that simply saying "tax the rich" isn't the answer everyone seems to think it is.
What people like Bezos, Zuckerberg, Musk etc. are doing is they have all this stock which appreciates like 10,000% during their lifetimes. They never sell it. They borrow against it for all their spending money. Then they die, and pass it on to their heirs. But because of the step up in basis on capital gains, their heirs can then sell the stock without paying for any of that 10,000% appreciation. Literally no one will ever pay any taxes on trillions of dollars being accumulated by these billionaires.

There are certainly things which can be done about this. No reason to just throw up our hands.
 

compcons

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,854
578
136
...
There are certainly things which can be done about this. No reason to just throw up our hands.
CONSERVE-atives. They are called this for a reason. They are wired to like status quo. Be it politics, their favorite TV programming, or the rule that exist today. The rules may be broken, but as long as everyone is playing by them, they don't see the need to change. It is how they are.

Hopefully, someday we find a way to fix these things. It could take lifetimes to reduce the massive disparity in income and wealth in this country. Unfortunately, it is the one area where conservatives don't want to revert back to the pre-Reagan era.
 

compcons

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,854
578
136
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,232
4,869
136

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
4,570
925
136
You mean they did the right thing? Now, the whole Oregon Republican party is suspect. Trump will send his surrogates in to straighten things out.
Every single one of those motherfuckers is going to be expelled from the great state of Jefferson for their betrayal.
 
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