What the f*** ATi, would you let me purchase your damn products please???

[Sunner]

I was hoping ATi would wise up on their EU pricing with the R300, but nooo!

Just saw the prices for the R9700, R9000, and even a regular Radeon 64 MB.

Radeon 64 MB(Yes thats a Radeon "1") - $240
Radeon 9000 Pro - $210, not too shabby I guess
Radeon 9700 - $600!!! What the fsck???? I can build a pretrty decent computer for that price!
Gainward GF4 Ti42000 PowerPack Golden Sample - $190.

Thats from one the cheapest(if not the cheapest) stores in Sweden.
ATi ain't gonna get anywhere around here with their pricing, thats for sure, they're giving the market away to nVidia without even putting up a fight.

 

[gururu]

Must be more expensive in Sweden Sunner! ATI has the 9000 for $150.00 on their site.
Radeon 9700 will not be $600!
that store has some bogus hopes. When it is actually released, no way its gonna
be over 450. If it is, then I'll have to wait a little longer for my new card...

gururu

 

[AnAndAustin]

You have a very valid point Sunner, ATI really rips anybody outside US & Canada off. In UK and Australia it is also much cheaper to buy a GF3 than a Rad7500, and a GF4TI than a Rad8500LE. WTF, ATI will get nowhere with pricing like this. It REALLY pi$$e$ me off because the Radeon cards are great products, but at these prices they are totally pointless.

 

[alexruiz]

In Mexico, ATI video cards are AT LEAST twice as expensive as the US.... where is the NAFTA??? :|

 

[spanky]

Originally posted by: alexruiz
In Mexico, ATI video cards are AT LEAST twice as expensive as the US.... where is the NAFTA??? :|

ouch man.

 

[Kingofcomputer]

nothing wrong with that - capitalism, free market, supply and demand.
you still have other choices - nvidia based cards for reasonable price, powervr based cards for good price.

 

[blade2]

Originally posted by: AnAndAustin
You have a very valid point Sunner, ATI really rips anybody outside US & Canada off. In UK and Australia it is also much cheaper to buy a GF3 than a Rad7500, and a GF4TI than a Rad8500LE. WTF, ATI will get nowhere with pricing like this. It REALLY pi$$e$ me off because the Radeon cards are great products, but at these prices they are totally pointless.

hey AnAndAustin, it aint as bad as you say! here in scotland, i can get a 128mb or 64mb Geforce 3 ti 200 for the same price as a Radeon 8500LE (£120) (hercules i believe), the ti 4200 is £40 more and these prices are from the local computer hardware shop.

anyway, on this note i ask if anyone knows of any decent online UK computer components retalier, i only know of one www.novatech.co.uk if you are interested..

 

[AnAndAustin]

www.dabs.com (huge range of goods and excellent customer service)

www.komplett.co.uk (also very good prices and cust service)

www.crucial.com (for very high quality RAM with free P&P, but rem they ex VAT)

AVOID www.ebuyer.com - they suck BIG TIME, I won't even go into it, but the have great prices but an abysmal ordering system and the worst cust support I have ever come across.

Well local PC shops do tend to over charge for big name brands like Intel and nVidia, as people will pay more and hence give them more profit. Here's the prices from DABS.COM:

DabsValue Rad7500 £54
DabsValue GF2TI £54
DabsValue GF4MX440 £63
DabsValue GF3TI200 £81
Leadtek GF4MX460 £93
DabsValue GF4TI4200-64MB £129
Hercules Rad8500LE 64MB oem £140
DabsValue GF4TI4200-128MB £144
DabsValue GF4TI4400-128MB £195
ATI Rad8500 64MB retail £210
PNY GF4TI4600 128MB £250
Matrox Parhelia 128MB oem £323

Well prices have improved since I last checked only a week or so ago, but also rem that non-ATI Radeon cards use cheaper (& nastier) RAM and lower clocks and have very limited o/c's, this also goes for oem versions too. In any case I'd take a Rad7500 over a GF2TI for the same price, but the GF3TI200 is far superior and only an extra £27. The non-ATI & OEM Rad8500LE 64MB is £11 more than the 4200-64MB and the 4200-128MB only costs £4 more than the Rad! The ATI retail Rad8500 is £15 more than a GF4TI4400 and the 4600 is only £40 more than the Rad. Pricing is better but still way off where it should be, esp for Rad8500 cards.

KOMPLETT:

Gainward GF4MX440 64MB £64
Hercules Rad7500 64MB oem £72
Hercules Rad8500LE 64MB oem £86
Creative GF4MX460 64MB £101
Hercules Rad8500LE 128MB oem £117
Gainward GF3TI500 128MB £120
MSI/Gainward GF4TI4200-64MB £130
Asus GF4TI4200-128MB £149
Hercules Rad8500 128MB oem £168
Asus GF4TI4400 128MB £193
Asus GF4TI4600 128MB £257

Well things seem a lot closer here, the MX440 is certainly the clear budget choice, esp considering the non-ATI & OEM Rad7500 is more expensive. The Rad8500 cards are much better priced, okay they are non-ATI & OEM but £86 for a 64MB LE is nice, at least the 128MB Rad8500LE stands a chance now with the 128MB GF3TI500 and 64MB GF4TI4200. The non-ATI & OEM 128MB Rad8500 is still high priced though being sat between the hugely better GF4TI4200-128MB and 128MB GF4TI4400. Perhaps ATI are wising up, heck it has took them 5 months to do it though!

 

[AnAndAustin]

Lets see if things have changed in Australia at all.

www.auspcmarket.com.au

Triplex Xabre400 64MB $198
Triplex GF4MX440 64MB $209
Herc GF2TI 64MB $242
Triplex GF4TI4200 64MB $341
Herc Rad7500 AIW 64MB oem $385
X-micro GF4TI4200 128MB $396
Asus 4400 128MB $517
Herc Rad8500DV 64MB oem $638
X-micro 4600 128MB $660
Matrox Parhelia 128MB oem $924

Well since the Rads in both cases are TV enhanced versions you can't really compare them.

www.techbuy.com.au

Sparkle GF4MX440 64MB $174
Power Rad7500 64MB $215
ATI Rad7500 64MB $245
Sparkle GF3TI200 128MB $268
Leadtek GF4MX460 64MB $303
Herc Rad8500LE 64MB $305
Sparkle GF4TI4200 64MB $308
Sparkle GF4TI4200 128MB $381
ATI Rad8500 64MB $462
Herc GF3TI500 64MB $495
Sparkle GF4TI4400 128MB $498
ATI Rad8500LE 128MB $505
Leadtek GF4TI4600 128MB $681
Matrox Parhelia512 128MB oem $941

Well once again the GF4MX440 is the clear budget choice, the Rad7500 isn't much cheaper than the GF3TI200. The Rad8500LE 64MB is much better than the GF4MX460 64MB which is the same price, however the GF4TI4200 64MB is also the same price, unlucky ATI. The Rad8500 64MB is simply ridiculous at $80 more than the GF4TI4200 128MB! Then finally the Rad8500LE 128MB is more expensive than the GF4TI4400 128MB!

 

[tenoc]

Most of the countries listed have heavy import and/or value-added taxes.

The price differential thus goes mostly into the pockets of the various federal governments, not the manufacturers!

Bitch at your politicians, not at ATI, or nVidia, or Asus, or MSI etc.

 

[tenoc]

BTW Sunner, I pay about CDN20 or U$13 for a 750ml bottle of Swedish vodka.

And your price there? :disgust:

 

[Gulzakar]

ATi...those darned Canadians

 

[kazeakuma]

Originally posted by: AnAndAustin
Lets see if things have changed in Australia at all.

www.auspcmarket.com.au

Triplex Xabre400 64MB $198
Triplex GF4MX440 64MB $209
Herc GF2TI 64MB $242
Triplex GF4TI4200 64MB $341
Herc Rad7500 AIW 64MB oem $385
X-micro GF4TI4200 128MB $396
Asus 4400 128MB $517
Herc Rad8500DV 64MB oem $638
X-micro 4600 128MB $660
Matrox Parhelia 128MB oem $924

Well since the Rads in both cases are TV enhanced versions you can't really compare them.

www.techbuy.com.au

Sparkle GF4MX440 64MB $174
Power Rad7500 64MB $215
ATI Rad7500 64MB $245
Sparkle GF3TI200 128MB $268
Leadtek GF4MX460 64MB $303
Herc Rad8500LE 64MB $305
Sparkle GF4TI4200 64MB $308
Sparkle GF4TI4200 128MB $381
ATI Rad8500 64MB $462
Herc GF3TI500 64MB $495
Sparkle GF4TI4400 128MB $498
ATI Rad8500LE 128MB $505
Leadtek GF4TI4600 128MB $681
Matrox Parhelia512 128MB oem $941

Well once again the GF4MX440 is the clear budget choice, the Rad7500 isn't much cheaper than the GF3TI200. The Rad8500LE 64MB is much better than the GF4MX460 64MB which is the same price, however the GF4TI4200 64MB is also the same price, unlucky ATI. The Rad8500 64MB is simply ridiculous at $80 more than the GF4TI4200 128MB! Then finally the Rad8500LE 128MB is more expensive than the GF4TI4400 128MB!

I live in australia nd those prices are CHEAP. I dunno about techbuy but auspc are reliable and trusted vendors. Should have mention that an ATI branded Radeon LE is $253. A bit steep don't you thing for a card that is slow as hell. AusPC stopped carrying most ATI products because they moved so slowly, high prices compared to the competition isn't helping them. Nor Matrox might I add, a GF4 T4600 is $200 AU cheaper than a Parhelia.

For those who care, here's a Leadtek GF4 Ti4400 with VIVO
Leadtek Geforce4 A250LE VIVO TD Ti4200, 64mb AGP DDR Video card w/TV & DVI out $385.00

EDIT: It's probably worth noting too that those Hercules cards from AusPC are actually on special. So I would assume the normal price is actually higher?

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: tenoc
BTW Sunner, I pay about CDN20 or U$13 for a 750ml bottle of Swedish vodka.And your price there? :disgust:

I pay $23 US(around 230 SEK) for a 700 ml of Absolut.

Must be more expensive in Sweden Sunner! ATI has the 9000 for $150.00 on their site.
Radeon 9700 will not be $600!
that store has some bogus hopes. When it is actually released, no way its gonna
be over 450. If it is, then I'll have to wait a little longer for my new card...

gururu

You'd be surprised, ATi products have always been damn expensive here.
Of course maybe it will dip to a "mere" $500 once NV30 shows up.

Pretty soon Im gonna go a lifetime boycott against ATi simply cause their pricing pisses me off.

As for the fella who sugested this is all cause of import taxes and such, then how come nVidia cards are actually pretty reasonably priced?

 

[tenoc]

Gee Sunner, if we use AI (alcohol index), a Radeon 9700 would cost you 23/13*400=708.

You quoted a price in Sweden of 600. For a product not shipping for a month or so.

Sounds as though your politicos would rather have you computing than drinking!

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: tenoc
Gee Sunner, if we use AI (alcohol index), a Radeon 9700 would cost you 23/13*400=708.You quoted a price in Sweden of 600. For a product not shipping for a month or so.Sounds as though your politicos would rather have you computing than drinking!

Oh you better believe drinking is expensive here, even more expensive than ATi
Thats why Im so poor all the time, I drink too much

 

[AnAndAustin]

As Sunner said VAT etc only accounts for higher prices for all things in the UK and other countries, NOT for how much more expensive Radeon cards are than the competition. It really pisses me off because I only bought 1 Rad8500LE card for somebody else in January, that was the only point at which the Rad8500LE, better than a GF3TI200, was worth it, since then the Radeon prices haven't changed while nVidia have introduced the much better GF4TI cards and all nVidia cards have dropped in price. I want to rec ATI cards, I like ATI cards, but the pricing outside of US & Canada makes them a complete joke!

 

[KF]

>supply and demand

The supply is that short, or the demand is that great?

It seems to me I saw on ATI's site somewhere that they have a different distributor in Europe and the retail cards sometimes have a different name, different BIOS, different driver. I guess the packaging, manuals, etc. have to be customized for other languages and ATI doesn't want to get into that. English speaking countries ought to do OK with Canadian packaging.

Sounds like ATI made a very bad choice, and is missing out on a lot of sales.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: KF
>supply and demand The supply is that short, or the demand is that great? It seems to me I saw on ATI's site somewhere that they have a different distributor in Europe and the retail cards sometimes have a different name, different BIOS, different driver. I guess the packaging, manuals, etc. have to be customized for other languages and ATI doesn't want to get into that. English speaking countries ought to do OK with Canadian packaging.Sounds like ATI made a very bad choice, and is missing out on a lot of sales.

I dont think that would be a problem, at least now in Sweden, the majority of all manuals for stuff such as GFX cards, mobo's, etc are in English here, and noone has a problem with it.
I doubt the rest of Europe is any different.

 

[KF]

>I dont think that would be a problem, at least now in Sweden, the majority of all manuals
> for stuff such as GFX cards, mobo's, etc are in English here, and noone has a problem with it.
>I doubt the rest of Europe is any different.

I had no idea. 90% of retail products sold in the US have manuals in at least 4 languages, English, French, Spanish, and German. Often also Japanese. I've seen one that also had Swedish, Portugese, Dutch, Italian, Chinese, and Arabic. Only one page in English.

How do Europeans react to English manuals. Do they resent American "cultural imperialism?"

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: KF
>I dont think that would be a problem, at least now in Sweden, the majority of all manuals
> for stuff such as GFX cards, mobo's, etc are in English here, and noone has a problem with it.
>I doubt the rest of Europe is any different.

I had no idea. 90% of retail products sold in the US have manuals in at least 4 languages, English, French, Spanish, and German. Often also Japanese. I've seen one that also had Swedish, Portugese, Dutch, Italian, Chinese, and Arabic. Only one page in English.

How do Europeans react to English manuals. Do they resent American "cultural imperialism?"

Can't speak for anyone else, but I dont mind, and I really don't know anyone else that does either.
I dont see why there should be a problem, anyone with a halfdecent level of education should be able to read English fairly well.
As for "American Imperialism", I think far more people get annoyed at 5 minute long scenes in movies where the hero waves a flag before the cheering crowds, or hold some long speech about god bless this and that.
Gets boring after the first few movies

 

[AnAndAustin]

LOL, Sunner.

It is one thing to be patriotic and proud of your country, but sometimes it can border on simple big-headedness, a superiority complex and cramming your flag down other people's throats. LOL. Please don't take that too seriously, I mean no offence what-so-ever, I am a big fan of Hollywood movies, but it does get very frustrating when other nations are only depicted stereotypicly or completely ignored ('By Jove, the Americans have saved the day again, and all while I was sipping my tea!') and it's very insulting when Americans' with awful accents are used to simulate other nations. In any case I'm probably just bitter that the USA seem to have pretty much everything bigger, better and cheaper than we do!

 

[blade2]

hey thanks AnAndAustin for the komplett site! the prices are great! have you ever used them? and i know u'v had this question asked so many times but out of the Ti4200's which make is the best? gainward id think and actually on taht note, i'll be upgrading my comp in 2 odd months time, the Ti4200 is still the best to go with innit?

 

[Kingofcomputer]

NAFTA???

NAFTA can't do anything to the selling price, the merchant can set whatever selling price they want.

 

[AnAndAustin]

I personally use DABS and KOMPLETT a lot, and both have excellent customer service and very fast delivery.

Brand matters very little for 4200 cards, you want a 128MB version, so the rest of the decision should be mostly based on price, features (VIVO or TVout, DVI+CRT with converter or dual CRT etc), bundles (games, sw etc) and the ns rating of the RAM used, manu should be the last concern in MHO and may be worth paying a little more for a good manu, esp one like Leadtek reknowned for excellent '2D' IQ. The ns RAM types are 4.0ns which should get you from 250/444 to 300/550 and 3.6ns which should get you to 300/620. JFYI 4400=275/550 and 4600=300/650. Don't be bothered about super HSF designs, RAM HS etc, the RAM is by far the most critical part when it comes to o/c'ing.

The 4200 is the best to go for at this moment in time. It offers fantastic perf in all areas, has great Aniso, great AA, great multi-monitor support and the '2D' image quality is right up their with Rad8500 (although most Rad8500 and Parhelia owners would disagree). Not only that but you can usually get 4400 or 4600 perf from a $150/£150 card! It should last well (and be easy to sell on when you next upgrade) because it has 128MB, the GF4TI branding (the new nVidia card will NOT be called GF5), DX8 hw funcs (it will be at least a year before many games begin to use DX9) and the 3D perf is still great and will play new games at very respectable levels.

Do bear in mind CPU and system RAM do play a part in overall perf. You can get an increase from a 4200 with a Duron 1ghz 256MB, just be sure to crank up res, Aniso and AA, but you really want an AthlonXP1800+ ($80) or P4A 512k 1.8ghz @ 2.4ghz 533FSB ($145) and 512MB RAM to truly release the GF4TI's potential.