What?s the better format -- DVD-R or DVD+R?

[Oyeve]

I prefer the + but not because its better than - media. I base it my opinion on the cost speed factor. Cheap - media burns at 1x while cheap + media burns at 2.4x so I base it on faster burning rather than compatability. All my DVD players whether on my PC, laptop or standalone plays both types so i usually will go for speed which the + media seems to have the edge on at the same price as the - media.

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: Oyeve
I prefer the + but not because its better than - media. I base it my opinion on the cost speed factor. Cheap - media burns at 1x while cheap + media burns at 2.4x so I base it on faster burning rather than compatability. All my DVD players whether on my PC, laptop or standalone plays both types so i usually will go for speed which the + media seems to have the edge on at the same price as the - media.

hmm... that runs against what i have read else where. in a nutshell they were saying that the only thing the - camp have over the + is cheap media, and +media are getting cheaper with each day...

 

[Tostada]

This argument is stupid. The arguments on that CD Freams article are pretty stupid, too. As far as data integrity, the most important test would be checking for soft errors with K's DVD Probe, and you would see that actual media quality matters much more than whether it's -R or +R.

And then that guy on the CDFreaks article goes on to say that +R is better because with certain linking methods you can waste 32KB on a DVD-R if you get a buffer underrun. That's ignorant. You should never get a buffer underrun. If you're so concerned about that extra 32KB used, you might be interested to know that the average DVD-R media holds about 4000KB more than the average DVD+R media.

DVD+R may be superior on paper, but real-world tests show that this is insignificant for all practical purposes. A Mitsubishi Chemical DVD-R will be more reliable than a Princo DVD+R in any situation.

The answer is that the best media is the reliable media that you can get the cheapest, which is most often DVD-R. It is my understanding, though, that DVD+R doesn't have to pay the kinds of royalties that DVD-R does, so if it catches on, eventually DVD+R should be cheaper.

 

[Tostada]

I suppose I don't actually mean that the CDFreaks article is stupid. The problem is that it's purely technical babbling without showing any real tests. Real tests show that DVD+R media has just as many soft errors as DVD-R. Real tests show that DVD-R media is in fact more compatible on older DVD players.

If you have modern equipment, it'll play either one just as well, and unless you're getting crap media, you don't have anything to worry about no matter which one you use.

If you're extremely concerned about your data integrity, I would suggest looking into PAR2 programs for error recovery, in which case you could start drilling holes in your DVD-R's and still recover all your data. I've tested it.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
This dead horse gets kicked weekly.

The consensus seems to be:

DVD-R=better for movies
DVD+R=better for data

general consensus confirmed. Although when you say movies, I assume you mean playing movies, as in compatibility to other hardware outside of your pc. Last I checked -R had a slight lead in how many random dvd players would play the format.

 

[MAME]

do they both work on playstation 2's for movies?

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Ahh...sorry. 😛 So...$7? Meh..no biggee since Ican burn the 4x stuff @ 8x. Can you burn 4x -R @ 8x?

heh, i wouldn't trust burning 4x media at 8x.. my roommate did.. that kprobe thing fed him some high PI/PO numbers.

but i only have a meager 4x burner... waiting for DL to fizzle down.. I jumped dvd early.. paid too much w/ my itchy buy now finger 🙂

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: lnguyen
I jumped dvd early.. paid too much w/ my itchy buy now finger 🙂

But if you had waited for DL before you got a burner, you never would've bothered learning about all the best ways to fit a DVD9 onto a single-layer DVD-R... It'll always be nice to be able to use cheaper single-layer media for most things.

 

[Cygni]

Imho, - is the better option. Better DVD player compatability (especially with older DVD players), cheaper discs. All the error prevention in the world means nothing if you dont have any errors to begin with. I dont think i have ever recieved a dead disk since i began burning DVDs, ever. Infact, the only thing that has ever killed a DVD ive burned is scratches, and all the burning error prevention in the world isnt going to stop the wheel of my chair from accidently going over a disc i dropped on the ground.

If + had cheaper discs, I would say get the + discs because they have the little added bonus of the EC. Before you splurge on a big spindle of + or - media, buy a few single discs and try them out on all the DVD players you can find. If the + plays fine and + media is the cheapest, go for it. But I have found - to be the better deal almost 100% of the time.

 

[PhlashFoto]

Which media is usually cheaper?? +/- ?? Im mostly looking to backup data files and what not. Does the + has a reason for being better or is the - just as good for data? I can not make up my mind. 😀

 

[SickBeast]

DVD-R is cheaper, and is perfectly fine for all uses in my experience.

The only reason I can see to use DVD+R instead is if you require multisession for your data.

 

[earthling30]

I'm not going to say which is better. I've used +R/+RW for over a year now and it works well for data and movies. No complaints here, although the media is more than the -R/-RW. 😉

Originally posted by: MAME
do they both work on playstation 2's for movies?

+R/+RW plays just fine on my kids PS2.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: lnguyen

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Ahh...sorry. 😛 So...$7? Meh..no biggee since Ican burn the 4x stuff @ 8x. Can you burn 4x -R @ 8x?

heh, i wouldn't trust burning 4x media at 8x.. my roommate did.. that kprobe thing fed him some high PI/PO numbers.

but i only have a meager 4x burner... waiting for DL to fizzle down.. I jumped dvd early.. paid too much w/ my itchy buy now finger 🙂

Oh, I'll be checking for errors, but the burner I'm getting, the Nu Tech DDW-082 supports burning many +R media @ 8X, and they even have a .pdf on their site saying which media will burn what speed. Also, in AT's review, it was the only one that consistently did that.

From what I've heard, it can be a bit weak with the -R media, but that's fine since I'll never use it anyhow.

AT Review

🙂

It was only $70 for the burner, and if it sucks, I'll just return it for the NEC dual layer one...even though the faceplate is cheesy looking.

🙂

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: earthling30
I'm not going to say which is better. I've used +R/+RW for over a year now and it works well for data and movies. No complaints here, although the media is more than the -R/-RW. 😉

Originally posted by: MAME
do they both work on playstation 2's for movies?

+R/+RW plays just fine on my kids PS2.

thanks!
what media do you use?

 

[Oyeve]

I keep reading in this post that + media cost more than - media. I don't know about the rest of you but in NYC they are both the same price. that is why I prefer cheap + media over cheap - media. Its the same cost but + burns faster. Plus I notice more sales and rebates on the + side than the - side.

 

[earthling30]

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: earthling30
I'm not going to say which is better. I've used +R/+RW for over a year now and it works well for data and movies. No complaints here, although the media is more than the -R/-RW. 😉

Originally posted by: MAME
do they both work on playstation 2's for movies?

+R/+RW plays just fine on my kids PS2.

thanks!
what media do you use?

If your talking about brand names:
Verbatim
Sony
TDK
Memorex
All DVD+R/+RW (4X-8X) format

Originally posted by: Oyeve
I keep reading in this post that + media cost more than - media. I don't know about the rest of you but in NYC they are both the same price. that is why I prefer cheap + media over cheap - media. Its the same cost but + burns faster. Plus I notice more sales and rebates on the + side than the - side.

I live in the south away from any big Metro. areas. That could have something to do with it.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I think -R is supposed to be more compatible but really I think these days it's a moot point.

I wonder if I can get a recommendation. I shot 2+ hours of minidv video last weekend, a wedding. I plan to copy that video to my PC, edit it down somewhat and burn some kind of DVDs to distribute to some of my relatives (nephew's wedding). So, what media should I use for maximum compatibility? I have no idea what kind of equipment these people might have. I just installed a new NEC ND-2510a, so I should be able to burn DVD+R or DVD-R. Specific recommendations for media, if you have them, would be cool. Thanks for sage advice. 😀

 

[Speedy3D!]

Originally posted by: Tostada
I suppose I don't actually mean that the CDFreaks article is stupid. The problem is that it's purely technical babbling without showing any real tests. Real tests show that DVD+R media has just as many soft errors as DVD-R. Real tests show that DVD-R media is in fact more compatible on older DVD players.

If you have modern equipment, it'll play either one just as well, and unless you're getting crap media, you don't have anything to worry about no matter which one you use.

If you're extremely concerned about your data integrity, I would suggest looking into PAR2 programs for error recovery, in which case you could start drilling holes in your DVD-R's and still recover all your data. I've tested it.

^ this man is correct. Technically DVD+R should be better, but in the real world it's just not the case. That's why I always prefer to use DVD-R when possible.

 

[high]

Originally posted by: RobCur
-r is much cheaper then +r media. it make no sense to buy +r just for movies, I only have use for backup data.

lol...seems to be the EXACT same price to me everywhere

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Speedy3D!

Originally posted by: Tostada
I suppose I don't actually mean that the CDFreaks article is stupid. The problem is that it's purely technical babbling without showing any real tests. Real tests show that DVD+R media has just as many soft errors as DVD-R. Real tests show that DVD-R media is in fact more compatible on older DVD players.

If you have modern equipment, it'll play either one just as well, and unless you're getting crap media, you don't have anything to worry about no matter which one you use.

If you're extremely concerned about your data integrity, I would suggest looking into PAR2 programs for error recovery, in which case you could start drilling holes in your DVD-R's and still recover all your data. I've tested it.

^ this man is correct. Technically DVD+R should be better, but in the real world it's just not the case. That's why I always prefer to use DVD-R when possible.

Thanks. For personal use, I think I'll get DVD+R and DVD+RW, but for giving to my relatives, etc. I'll burn to DVD-Rs in expectations that there will be less in the way of incompatibility problems with whatever players they may have.

 

[Belzer]

Originally posted by: Muse
I wonder if I can get a recommendation. I shot 2+ hours of minidv video last weekend, a wedding. I plan to copy that video to my PC, edit it down somewhat and burn some kind of DVDs to distribute to some of my relatives (nephew's wedding). So, what media should I use for maximum compatibility? I have no idea what kind of equipment these people might have. I just installed a new NEC ND-2510a, so I should be able to burn DVD+R or DVD-R. Specific recommendations for media, if you have them, would be cool. Thanks for sage advice. 😀

With the original firmware use DVD-R. There is however a HP based firmware that supports bitsetting which make DVD+R just as compatible as DVD-R or, to my experience, even slightly better compatible.
For both formats I recommend media made by Taiyo Yuden if you want the best quality. TY +R are available at for example Newegg as Samsung 50-pack for only $37.99.

 

[earthling30]

Originally posted by: high

Originally posted by: RobCur
-r is much cheaper then +r media. it make no sense to buy +r just for movies, I only have use for backup data.

lol...seems to be the EXACT same price to me everywhere

I believe NewEgg says different. Here are a few examples. Some are the same, others - is more than +, and others + is more than -.

- < +
4X DVD-r 25pk 28.99
4X DVD+r 25pk 32.99

+ < -
8X DVD+r 10pk 13.75
8X DVD-r 10pk 16.50

- = +
4X DVD+r 25pk 22.99
4X DVD-r 25pk 22.99

I tried to keep the same brand, pack size, and speed in the comparisons.

Note: Prices are only good at the time of this posting.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Belzer

Originally posted by: Muse
I wonder if I can get a recommendation. I shot 2+ hours of minidv video last weekend, a wedding. I plan to copy that video to my PC, edit it down somewhat and burn some kind of DVDs to distribute to some of my relatives (nephew's wedding). So, what media should I use for maximum compatibility? I have no idea what kind of equipment these people might have. I just installed a new NEC ND-2510a, so I should be able to burn DVD+R or DVD-R. Specific recommendations for media, if you have them, would be cool. Thanks for sage advice. 😀

With the original firmware use DVD-R. There is however a HP based firmware that supports bitsetting which make DVD+R just as compatible as DVD-R or, to my experience, even slightly better compatible.
For both formats I recommend media made by Taiyo Yuden if you want the best quality. TY +R are available at for example Newegg as Samsung 50-pack for only $37.99.

Sounds like some really good advice to me. Thanks! I have seen that HP based firmware, and in fact I'm sure I already downloaded it yet along with a couple of other versions. I was puzzling over which version to use and hadn't decided on any based on what I've been able to find out. It seemed strange to me that they would have an HP based firmware for an NEC burner. There is an NEC based firmware too, but I guess it doesn't support bitsetting. I found that same Samsung 50-pack at Newegg a couple days ago and thought to myself that it looked like a very wise option. Newegg reviewers note that this 4x media burns at 8x with my NEC 2510a, and of course, TY has a great reputation (I get it when I can get it reasonably for CDRs). At the time I thought that I should get DVD-R media, but your post suggests I can use DVD+R and still get the compatibility I want (if I use that HP based firmware). Thanks again.

Edit: Just ordered the disks.

Edit2: I'd appreciate a link to that HP based bitsetting supporting firmware. I don't know where I saw that and guess I didn't download it. Thanks. Um, is it the following?

HP DVD Writer 520n (OEM NEC ND-2510A)
Currently supplied as binaries suitable for flashing in DOS. The package includes original firmware, RPC1 with Rip Lock, and Rip Lock only. 2.21 Binaries and Flasher

at this site? http://tdb.rpc1.org/#ND2510A

 

[xylem]

I was under the impression, after a bit of reading prior to purchasing my drive, that for compatibility with set-top players, +R(with bitsetting) is superior to -R, which is in turn superior to +R (without bitsetting). If your drive supports bitsetting, and you don't mind the slightly higher cost of +R media, go with +R. I am using the LiteOn SOHC-812S, which supports bitsetting with the latest firmware (incidentally it can also be flashed to model SOHC-832S... a DL model), with Newegg's Ridata x4 +R media, with no problems thus far. Of course, it will pay to do a bit more research on sites that specialize in this topic, as was suggested already in this thread.