What role does subjectivity and bias play in education?
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DT4K
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- Jan 21, 2002
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Are you serious?
You actually thought that ridiculous response from the professor was pwnage?
She might have a point IF there was representation from all sides of the political spectrum.
But no, I don't think it's right that the higher education system in this country is so blatantly liberally biased. Many universities do more to indoctrinate their students in liberalism than to actually teach them something.
Using your classroom as a venue to push your political ideology is offensive and wrong.
It is a teacher's job to share knowledge and teach and encourage critical and independent thought. Not to indoctrinate by giving only one side of an issue and telling the students which side they should be on and why.
She should be ashamed of herself for abusing her position of power and authority to push her ideology at the expense of teaching her students to think for themselves.
You actually thought that ridiculous response from the professor was pwnage?
She might have a point IF there was representation from all sides of the political spectrum.
But no, I don't think it's right that the higher education system in this country is so blatantly liberally biased. Many universities do more to indoctrinate their students in liberalism than to actually teach them something.
Using your classroom as a venue to push your political ideology is offensive and wrong.
It is a teacher's job to share knowledge and teach and encourage critical and independent thought. Not to indoctrinate by giving only one side of an issue and telling the students which side they should be on and why.
She should be ashamed of herself for abusing her position of power and authority to push her ideology at the expense of teaching her students to think for themselves.
Sorry, there's no "ownage" of any sort there... I just see the professor being a patronizing and condescending ass who seems to be resorting to ad homs (e.g. "you don't know anything because you don't have a PhD like I do"). She's basically admitting that she's using her position of authority as a bully pulpit for preaching her political views towards students, which is pretty reprehensible.
Hmm, I think the Op-Ed was weak and the reply was certainly superior but . . . like I said . . . the bar was set low.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Umm - I don't think there was any "pwnage" by the sweet professor.
She came across as an arrogant "elitist" - which, if judging by her response, is probably quite present in her "lectures". Being a condescending Beeotch in her reply lends credence to the original OP writer's position(however "off-base" she claims it was). If this "professor" was as "intellectual" and "unbiased" as she tries to claim she is, then she wouldn't have written this: "When the day comes that students can intimidate professors into complementing their limited knowledge of a subject and making them comfortable, I'll stop teaching."
Maybe she forgot that students don't need to be intimidated by her indoctrination either - and they shouldn't have to "just take it" - especially since they are paying her salary.
They are there to learn - not for her to push an adgenda on.
I would have done it a different way and wrote things differently than he did but I still tip my hat to him for atleast speaking out about it - even if it was just a problem with his perspective. I couldn't stand classes that allowed professors to bleat out their opinions daily instead of having true discussion from all angles. There were a few good Professors who actually encouraged honest debate and didn't over-ride discussions with their slant. Those classes were the most fun, and the ones that I learned from the most.
"How dare this student condescend to call me "sweet" and to "bless my heart"? I am a Ph.D. and tenured professor who earned my place at this university." - WOW...just wow. I hope she someday realizes she just said - hopefully soon before she pushes any more of her BS on the "losers" she has to teach.
Anyway - I'm sure there is quite a bit more that lies beneath this exchage, but IMO there was not "pwnage" and the professor certainly didn't stake claim to the "high ground", but rather, she left us with a view of the bottom of her nose and chin.
CkG
She came across as an arrogant "elitist" - which, if judging by her response, is probably quite present in her "lectures". Being a condescending Beeotch in her reply lends credence to the original OP writer's position(however "off-base" she claims it was). If this "professor" was as "intellectual" and "unbiased" as she tries to claim she is, then she wouldn't have written this: "When the day comes that students can intimidate professors into complementing their limited knowledge of a subject and making them comfortable, I'll stop teaching."
Maybe she forgot that students don't need to be intimidated by her indoctrination either - and they shouldn't have to "just take it" - especially since they are paying her salary.
They are there to learn - not for her to push an adgenda on. I would have done it a different way and wrote things differently than he did but I still tip my hat to him for atleast speaking out about it - even if it was just a problem with his perspective. I couldn't stand classes that allowed professors to bleat out their opinions daily instead of having true discussion from all angles. There were a few good Professors who actually encouraged honest debate and didn't over-ride discussions with their slant. Those classes were the most fun, and the ones that I learned from the most.
"How dare this student condescend to call me "sweet" and to "bless my heart"? I am a Ph.D. and tenured professor who earned my place at this university." - WOW...just wow. I hope she someday realizes she just said - hopefully soon before she pushes any more of her BS on the "losers" she has to teach.
Anyway - I'm sure there is quite a bit more that lies beneath this exchage, but IMO there was not "pwnage" and the professor certainly didn't stake claim to the "high ground", but rather, she left us with a view of the bottom of her nose and chin.
CkG
If conservatives don't like college professors they don't have to go to college. Or they can pick which school they go to, maybe a religious Madrasa? "Don't like it? Then get out..."
Zephyr
Zephyr
I don't know. I thought the op-ed piece was scathing and made a good point, but her reply came off more as a weak defense than owning him. I have a moderate slant to me, so I understand where is coming from. The only people who whine more about things than conservatives are liberals. If I hear one more goddamned thing about the 2000 election... electoral college is similar to the way that the Dems select their nominee, but I've yet to hear people complain about that. Yes, the hanging chads, recounts, etc... blah blah blah. For ever article about the election that says something new there is one to rip it apart. It's over; it's down with; the Supreme Court made a decision and that's it.
Now, I do think it was wrong for him to take the attitude he did with her. There's no reason for him to degrade her by saying "she's sweet and blah blah blah" but you would think she would have a modicum of professionally when replying to his op-ed piece. She should have thoroughly dissected his claims, shown proof, and not written the whiny I'm-a-fscking-PhD-so-I've-got-to-be right part. If she wanted to demonstrate as a professor that she was ethically or morally superior, then she shouldn't have engaged in the same behavior as he did. Yes, he's a clown and all, but he was writing an op-ed piece. He's supposed to be sarcastic and bitter. What columnist writing that kind of piece isn't? However, when you write a reply back you want to appear to be above that level of play otherwise you sink to their level, and she never got a really good shot in on him.
Now, I do think it was wrong for him to take the attitude he did with her. There's no reason for him to degrade her by saying "she's sweet and blah blah blah" but you would think she would have a modicum of professionally when replying to his op-ed piece. She should have thoroughly dissected his claims, shown proof, and not written the whiny I'm-a-fscking-PhD-so-I've-got-to-be right part. If she wanted to demonstrate as a professor that she was ethically or morally superior, then she shouldn't have engaged in the same behavior as he did. Yes, he's a clown and all, but he was writing an op-ed piece. He's supposed to be sarcastic and bitter. What columnist writing that kind of piece isn't? However, when you write a reply back you want to appear to be above that level of play otherwise you sink to their level, and she never got a really good shot in on him.
I would have had to have taken the course in order to have any personal confidence in drawing a conclusion as to which of these folks is closer to reality.
I know very well what happens often to me when some conservative off the farm who has never been anywhere more that ankle deep in cow sh!t runs into one of my posts. But that doesn't mean I have to get snippy or put them down.
I think I would have told the student that if he wanted to improve his F grade he could take the course again, this time without the hay seed in his (r)ear.
I know very well what happens often to me when some conservative off the farm who has never been anywhere more that ankle deep in cow sh!t runs into one of my posts. But that doesn't mean I have to get snippy or put them down.
I think I would have told the student that if he wanted to improve his F grade he could take the course again, this time without the hay seed in his (r)ear.
Originally posted by: alchemize
I really hope you were parodying yourself.
All that talk about the professor looking down her nose seemed to call for the real thing.
I always found it interesting that as a poli sci major in college 99% of my professors were raving liberals, ironically enough two of my best teachers, one the subject of international relations was a retired DOD employee and moderate conservative, the other was again a mod conservative teaching about the now defunct Soviet union and post Cold war relations...but that is off topic...
My media and politics professior, very nice woman and about as extreme leftist as one can get always spoke of how the media had a heavy heavy left wing slant...I gave her credit for at least owning up to it as so many of my other uber libero teachers would deny it. Why do you think so many in the area of journalism despise Fox? surely it isn't for their newsworthyness as it is obvious they are not as cultured and experienced as other more renowned networks? but rather they cannot stand the infusion of a conservative slant into territory that was completely liberal dominated.
As being a moderate conservative political science major in a super leftist shool I can sympathize with the first writer...and the teachers response sounds oh so familiar to the many of sub par professors I had to deal with.
My media and politics professior, very nice woman and about as extreme leftist as one can get always spoke of how the media had a heavy heavy left wing slant...I gave her credit for at least owning up to it as so many of my other uber libero teachers would deny it. Why do you think so many in the area of journalism despise Fox? surely it isn't for their newsworthyness as it is obvious they are not as cultured and experienced as other more renowned networks? but rather they cannot stand the infusion of a conservative slant into territory that was completely liberal dominated.
As being a moderate conservative political science major in a super leftist shool I can sympathize with the first writer...and the teachers response sounds oh so familiar to the many of sub par professors I had to deal with.
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
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Can you name a nationally respected university with less than 80% liberal professors?
The problem is there aren't many choices where liberalism doesn't dominate the university culture.
Anyone who is academically qualified should be able to go to a good school and expect to get a good education without being continually indoctrinated by the liberal professors. Especially in public universities that are being supported with my tax dollars.
Moonpie, you've gone off the deep end this time. Your bias is usually more subtle, but your insinuation that conservatives are just a bunch of farmers and hicks is truly ridiculous. And I'm a little confused.
Are conservatives farmers and trailer trash, or are we evil rich people who inherited all our money and now get pleasure out of stepping on the little guy.
Your confusion clearly marks you as among the trailor trash segment of the party. The evil rich depend on your knowledge of cow chips and massive numbers to maintain them in power. Think of yourself as a horse plow, a primitive but rather useful tool.
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Your confusion clearly marks you as among the trailor trash segment of the party. The evil rich depend on your knowledge of cow chips and massive numbers to maintain them in power. Think of yourself as a horse plow, a primitive but rather useful tool.
LOL, at least I can spell trailer.
You are always good for a laugh moonie.:beer:
The question of supposed liberal bias in colleges is interesting to me. I'd like to ask a few questions.
1. Is it valid to assume that people who obtain Ph.D's have studied anything useful? (If the answer is "no," don't go on.)
2. If they have studied anything useful, have they learned anything? (If the answer is "no," don't go on.)
3. Assuming it's correct that they are "overwhelmingly liberal" (and that was not my experience), why is that?
I assume that the average citizen is astonishingly stupid. Or at least ignorant. As one example, I mention the questions of WMD in Iraq. This was a non issue in most of the world. Most countries did not believe this was a threat. Of course, we "knew" better. Please return to the first sentence of this paragraph.
1. Is it valid to assume that people who obtain Ph.D's have studied anything useful? (If the answer is "no," don't go on.)
2. If they have studied anything useful, have they learned anything? (If the answer is "no," don't go on.)
3. Assuming it's correct that they are "overwhelmingly liberal" (and that was not my experience), why is that?
I assume that the average citizen is astonishingly stupid. Or at least ignorant. As one example, I mention the questions of WMD in Iraq. This was a non issue in most of the world. Most countries did not believe this was a threat. Of course, we "knew" better. Please return to the first sentence of this paragraph.
Whitling,
Before you take this thread completely off-topic with a totally unsubstantiated attempt at logic, please read the article in this thread and post that you have read it. It is require reading from here out if you want to take a thread off-topic to WMD. It has have received commendations, which I shamelessly flaunt, from such notable left wing fringies as BBD, Bowfinger, and Dealmonkey, as well as right wing fascists such as Ultraquiet, Burnedout, Tabb, and myself.
Then perhaps you can come back and try and show us how the average person is astonishlingly stupid (not that I disagree with you) in a different fashion.
Before you take this thread completely off-topic with a totally unsubstantiated attempt at logic, please read the article in this thread and post that you have read it. It is require reading from here out if you want to take a thread off-topic to WMD. It has have received commendations, which I shamelessly flaunt, from such notable left wing fringies as BBD, Bowfinger, and Dealmonkey, as well as right wing fascists such as Ultraquiet, Burnedout, Tabb, and myself.
Then perhaps you can come back and try and show us how the average person is astonishlingly stupid (not that I disagree with you) in a different fashion.
Maybe, Whitling, what intense and extensive education does in part is foster the realization that there is a great deal that can be known about anything, really, and that it takes time and great effort even to scratch the surface of most things. So maybe educated people have experience is now little they knew before they began and therefore how little they as yet may know. It's easier to think you know something when you know nothing than when you know you know nothing.
Alchemize is probably right. My post would take this thread somewhere else. I've got to admit though, I find the concept of "a totally unsubstantiated attempt at logic" to be an interesting one. I always thought that logic was either internally consistent or not. The concept of having to substantiate it is interesting. Please return to the first sentence of my final paragraph in the previous post.
Yes, I would, in a most condenscending manner, state that most people are stupid. Currently, with the increase in college enrollments, many people are meeting others with differing opinions and ideas for the first time. This can be quite disconcerting if one have never known any opinions other than their own, especially if the differing opinion belongs to a person in a position of authority. Most college professors may be liberal because conservatives want to do the "practical thing," i.e. something to immediately enter the workforce and make money, and liberalism itself may impart an enhanced degree of inquisitiveness and open-mindedness neccessary for graduate and doctoral research work.
Zephyr
Zephyr
Right colleve pleebs can be more conservative cause they think they know something, but grad school and up, where the limitations of knowledge become apparent, is liberal. Liberals and conservatives don't know anything, but liberals are more aware of that and consequently less impressed with themselves and consequently again, more open. That's what liveral is, more open, more like a sponge than a brick.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Brush up on the reading comprehension. I was referring to graduate and doctoral degree holders, a very different demographic than bachelors degree holders.
Zephyr
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