What right does the nation of Israel have to exist - curious if you Gentiles think it was acceptable what was done to

[dahunan]

people who were on the land

NOT a hate on Israeli or Jewish people post in any way whatsoever... Hoping some can logically explain why the inhabitants should be happy with being removed

how they were treated

Wonder if any of you would just lie down and accept it if it was you or your family who was forced off their land so some strangers who hated you and saw you as dogs could move in and til your soil and use your water etc..

How many know about Israeli Terrorists who PLANNED to remove and terrorize human beings who lived on the borders of the stolen land so they could get them to run in fear allowing more land to be taken...

So funny how brainwashed so many are to see one side as doves of peace and another sides as all evil

But.. white people have been like this for a long time.. can justify any actions if they get what they want...

Remember... the way you think and the actions you take.. is the way you will be treated and, oh, those of you who believe in God and think murder (war) is ok.. prepare for purgatory


**EDIT: title fixed for Evan..


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Thread has become hijacked with bickering vs discussing the situation as requested by the OP

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[First]

Yeah, now this is stupid. As if King George Brits had the same intentions as Israelis. :roll:

 

[kylebisme]

Israel has the right to exist by virtue of the fact that it does exist.

That isn't to say the colonization of Palestine which lead to the establishment of Israel was in any way justifiable, it was nothing of the sort.

However, displacing the millions of Israelis who were born and raised there cannot be justified by any means either.

That said, Israel has no right to continue expanding their colonization of Palestinian land in the West Bank, and must withdraw their settlers to within their internationally recognized boarders in order to end this conflict.

 

[Czar]

http://www.independent.co.uk/o...gic-irony-1216228.html

"That is why Gaza exists: because the Palestinians who lived in Ashkelon and the fields around it ? Askalaan in Arabic ? were dispossessed from their lands in 1948 when Israel was created and ended up on the beaches of Gaza. They ? or their children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren ? are among the one and a half million Palestinian refugees crammed into the cesspool of Gaza, 80 per cent of whose families once lived in what is now Israel. This, historically, is the real story: most of the people of Gaza don't come from Gaza."

"Both Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres said back in the 1990s that they wished Gaza would just go away, drop into the sea, and you can see why. The existence of Gaza is a permanent reminder of those hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who lost their homes to Israel, who fled or were driven out through fear or Israeli ethnic cleansing 60 years ago, when tidal waves of refugees had washed over Europe in the aftermath of the Second World War and when a bunch of Arabs kicked out of their property didn't worry the world."

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Israel has the right to exist by virtue of the fact that it does exist.

That isn't to say the colonization of Palestine which lead to the establishment of Israel was in any way justifiable, it was nothing of the sort.

However, displacing the millions of Israelis who were born and raised there cannot be justified by any means either.

I actually side with you on that.

That said, Israel has no right to continue expanding their colonization of Palestinian land in the West Bank, and must withdraw their settlers to within their internationally recognized boarders in order to end this conflict.

The reason I don't support Israel getting out of the West Bank is completely tactical. I think it will deteriorate in the same way Gaza did, and soon enough more Palestinians will be armed with rockets.

 

[Colt45]

It wouldn't be the first time the british empire left a trainwreck. But now that it exists as such, what can be done?

Maybe resurrect Stalin and get him to rule over the whole region. I think that's the only way there would ever be anything close to a "just peace". A third party ruler with an Iron fist. Send the leaders from both sides to reeducation camps for starters. Suppress all nationalist activity. promote unity through education, etc. Maybe after a century or two they can drop the authoritarianism bit. It wouldn't hurt to water down the religion on both sides neither. Maybe airdrop some cheeseburgers and hollywood.

 

[PottedMeat]

Originally posted by: Colt45
It wouldn't be the first time the british empire left a trainwreck. But now that it exists as such, what can be done?

Maybe resurrect Stalin and get him to rule over the whole region. I think that's the only way there would ever be anything close to a "just peace". A third party ruler with an Iron fist. Send the leaders from both sides to reeducation camps for starters. Suppress all nationalist activity. promote unity through education, etc. Maybe after a century or two they can drop the authoritarianism bit. It wouldn't hurt to water down the religion on both sides neither. Maybe airdrop some cheeseburgers and hollywood.

Heh contain them, control them, and broadcast the American dream - tell them if they change things themselves they can have that. And when they get out of it they'll say 'this ain't all that great, but I guess it's better than it was'
The reeducation thing would take a generation or two probably.

At the other extreme you could pull all foreign money out of both sides. They'd have to fend for themselves. Maybe for a time like in Iraq there would be a huge volume of killings for both to shake out the bad blood.

 

[Julius Shark]

?Hoping some can logically explain?

I?ll explain it, but it won?t be through logic. Logic is the tool that academe uses to blind the hearts of men to the truth.

Here is Truth:

The Israeli lands were given by God to the Jewish people. The Palestinians are trespassers. They will be driven out by force.

 

[Ozoned]

What right does the nation of Israel have to exist ?

Do you understand how the borders of other existing nations are drawn? Israel is nothing if not just a part of evolution.

 

[Julius Shark]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
What right does the nation of Israel have to exist ?
Israel is nothing if not just a part of evolution.

Evolution is a false, unproven doctrine. Israel is God's territory and it is clearly outlined in the Scripture.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Julius Shark
?Hoping some can logically explain?

I?ll explain it, but it won?t be through logic. Logic is the tool that academe uses to blind the hearts of men to the truth.

Here is Truth:

The Israeli lands were given by God to the Jewish people. The Palestinians are trespassers. They will be driven out by force.

I didn't know the trolls were out to play today. If I knew I would have given you a , but there wasn't a sticky saying that 12/30/08 was a "let the trolls out" day.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: Ozoned
What right does the nation of Israel have to exist ?
Israel is nothing if not just a part of evolution.

Evolution is a false, unproven doctrine. Israel is God's territory and it is clearly outlined in the Scripture.

Julius Shark
Member

Posts: 51
Joined: 12/28/2008

Now it makes sense....

 

[Julius Shark]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Julius Shark
?Hoping some can logically explain?

I?ll explain it, but it won?t be through logic. Logic is the tool that academe uses to blind the hearts of men to the truth.

Here is Truth:

The Israeli lands were given by God to the Jewish people. The Palestinians are trespassers. They will be driven out by force.

I didn't know the trolls were out to play today. If I knew I would have given you a , but there wasn't a sticky saying that 12/30/08 was a "let the trolls out" day.

FU. You people need to get another tool for the tool box. Using the troll lable everytime you run out of ideas is the Liberal way.

Ask your hero Barney Frank.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: Ozoned
What right does the nation of Israel have to exist ?
Israel is nothing if not just a part of evolution.

Evolution is a false, unproven doctrine. Israel is God's territory and it is clearly outlined in the Scripture.

Yes, I know and agree with that, but the pacifist up there asked for a logical reason. Why bother with the truth when (his/her ?) own method is self-defeating?

 

[Specop 007]

Israel exists, and should be allowed to exist, due to currently existing. It doesnt matter if it sright or wrong because there simply isnt a "right" or "wrong" in the historical perspective of things. Empires grow, empires wane. By the same token so do kingdoms, countries etc etc.

Should we pull out a map of the world from 1750 and restore all boundaries to what the map represents? or perhaps a map from 1590 and use those established boundaries as todays? Its silly to use a period of time from history to attempt to define what should be today. It simply doesnt work because nations and their boundaries have changed all throughout history.

The bigger question should be what can we do to stop the violence rather then focusing on the distracting game of "should they exist" based upon actions and decisions which took place decades or centuries ago.

 

[Julius Shark]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: Ozoned
What right does the nation of Israel have to exist ?
Israel is nothing if not just a part of evolution.

Evolution is a false, unproven doctrine. Israel is God's territory and it is clearly outlined in the Scripture.

Yes, I know and agree with that, but the pacifist up there asked for a logical reason. Why bother with the truth when (his/her ?) own method is self-defeating?

When the PO used this phrase, "How many know about Israeli Terrorists", I knew he had already made up his mind.

You can?t use logic to figure out why Israel is pissed. They don?t need to be logical. They have a deed to the property.

You got some bums on your property, kick them, out. If the bums on your property are terrorists, get a lot tougher, kill them.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Julius Shark
?Hoping some can logically explain?

I?ll explain it, but it won?t be through logic. Logic is the tool that academe uses to blind the hearts of men to the truth.

Here is Truth:

The Israeli lands were given by God to the Jewish people. The Palestinians are trespassers. They will be driven out by force.

I didn't know the trolls were out to play today. If I knew I would have given you a , but there wasn't a sticky saying that 12/30/08 was a "let the trolls out" day.

FU. You people need to get another tool for the tool box. Using the troll lable everytime you run out of ideas is the Liberal way.

Ask your hero Barney Frank.

About what I would expect from a so called Christian.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Julius Shark

The Israeli lands were given by God to the Jewish people. The Palestinians are trespassers.

Made me roll my eyes.

Evolution is a false, unproven doctrine.

Showed me you are one of the willfully ignorant.

Ask your hero Barney Frank.

Marks you as a stupid agitator.

My question is: are you an ass by birth or trade?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Julius Shark
?Hoping some can logically explain?

I?ll explain it, but it won?t be through logic. Logic is the tool that academe uses to blind the hearts of men to the truth.

Here is Truth:

The Israeli lands were given by God to the Jewish people. The Palestinians are trespassers. They will be driven out by force.

I didn't know the trolls were out to play today. If I knew I would have given you a , but there wasn't a sticky saying that 12/30/08 was a "let the trolls out" day.

FU. You people need to get another tool for the tool box. Using the troll lable everytime you run out of ideas is the Liberal way.

Ask your hero Barney Frank.

I'm so glad you know who my heroes are and which party I align with :roll:

I'm glad that you at least realize you can't explain it through logic though, because logic and rational thought is the bane of religion everywhere. If you want to get into a debate about logic "blinding the hearts of men to the truth" I'd be more than happy to participate.


If you want to talk about the "hearts and minds of men" then logic would be used to win the mind of man. Philosophically speaking, the mind is the realm of logic, rational thinking, and proof/evidence based arguments. The heart is the realm of emotions, intuition, and "gut feelings".

Let's ignore that aspect of your statement though and move on to the rest of your statement. In the Bible it says that God promised the land to the Israelite people. With that being said, no where in recorded history was a state of Israel given to a certain group of people by God. If you can show me anytime in recorded history where your God defined the borders of the "promised land", please show me. Israel was created in modern times, starting with the Balfour Declaration in 1917 through the UN declaration in 1947.

Your religious beliefs, are just that your beliefs. Show me any non-religious proof that the Palestinian people have any less right to that land than Israel. This land is contested on a religious basis (but also now because the people who lived there prior to the UN declaration in 1947, want the land that belonged to them back).

You are a religious zealot. People that believe like you do are the reason for most of the conflict in the region. There are religious nuts like you who believe that "The Palestinians are trespassers", but there are just as many on the other side that believe the Israeli people are trespassers. Both sides want the other driven out by force.

So I will wait for any non-religious proof that the Israeli people have any more right to that land than the Palestinian people. Until then, you are a religious zealot troll and need to go back to your cave.

 

[5150Joker]

Israel will eventually face extinction once the US support runs out--and it inevitably will since the economy has all but collapsed. Somehow I don't see China becoming a champion of Israel. Well you know what they say, what goes around comes around.

 

[theeedude]

Same right that the US has to exist after what it did to the Indians. Life isn't fair.
Anyways, I am not sure how long Israel will actually exist. Arabs only have to win once, Israel has to win every single time. No matter how good Israel is at fighting wars, and how inept the Arabs are at doing it, those are some formidable odds. In historical terms, Israel may end up being nothing more than the Crusades redux. But in the mean time, they need to defend themselves and give themselves every advantage they can get, fair or unfair.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: Ozoned
What right does the nation of Israel have to exist ?
Israel is nothing if not just a part of evolution.

Evolution is a false, unproven doctrine. Israel is God's territory and it is clearly outlined in the Scripture.

Wow dude, you are almost as screwed up in the head as Dave (except in a different way).

There are different kinds of evolution, not just your oh-so-hated biological. Want in on a little secret? Your religion has evolved from its beginnings. Do you believe that your religions views today are the same that were held in 200 AD? What about 500 AD? What about 1000 AD? 1700 AD?

Religion has evolved, meaning evolution of religion happens. Guess what else? Politics evolve, economy evolves, and (pay attention to this one) nations evolve. Boarders are not static, but are very dynamic. That means they change (if you don't know the meaning of dynamic), which is exactly what it means to "evolve".

Show me any non-religious proof (i.e. not scripture, the church, a religious figure, religious based group, etc) that:
-Evolution is false
-Israeli people have any more right to that land than any other people

Until you can show any kind of proof, you will be a troll and should leave these forums in favor of this one, this one, or this one.

 

[Julius Shark]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Julius Shark
?Hoping some can logically explain?

I?ll explain it, but it won?t be through logic. Logic is the tool that academe uses to blind the hearts of men to the truth.

Here is Truth:

The Israeli lands were given by God to the Jewish people. The Palestinians are trespassers. They will be driven out by force.

I didn't know the trolls were out to play today. If I knew I would have given you a , but there wasn't a sticky saying that 12/30/08 was a "let the trolls out" day.

FU. You people need to get another tool for the tool box. Using the troll lable everytime you run out of ideas is the Liberal way.

Ask your hero Barney Frank.

About what I would expect from a so called Christian.

Hey pal, being a Christian means one thing and one thing only, Jesus is my savior.
You Liberals have had it way to easy around here. We won?t be using your standards to determine what a Christian is or is not.

Christians are as diverse (there?s a nice Liberal/Democrat word for ya) as all of society. There are baby Christians that are esily corrupted by the outside and then there are adults, like me, that have access to all things.

There aren?t a lot of plays in the Liberal playbook. If you are stuck on a subject it?s time to call your opponent a ?troll?.

If a Christian is strong, powerful and opinionated, like me, you try to cut my balls off by saying that I should be weak and pliable so you bullies can run roughshod over the top of me.

You?ve castrated more that a few on this forum by the looks of things. It won?t happen to me.

Dig?

BTW.. thanks for the opportunity to get that out. I didn?t intend it as a personal. However, I do want to get real strong so that everyone is crustal clear where I'm coming from.

 

[her209]

Israel has a right to exist but should be relocated to the US in order to achieve peace in the Middle East. The state of Florida would be perfect for a new Israel.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Julius Shark

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Julius Shark
?Hoping some can logically explain?

I?ll explain it, but it won?t be through logic. Logic is the tool that academe uses to blind the hearts of men to the truth.

Here is Truth:

The Israeli lands were given by God to the Jewish people. The Palestinians are trespassers. They will be driven out by force.

I didn't know the trolls were out to play today. If I knew I would have given you a , but there wasn't a sticky saying that 12/30/08 was a "let the trolls out" day.

FU. You people need to get another tool for the tool box. Using the troll lable everytime you run out of ideas is the Liberal way.

Ask your hero Barney Frank.

About what I would expect from a so called Christian.

Hey pal, being a Christian means one thing and one thing only, Jesus is my savior.
You Liberals have had it way to easy around here. We won?t be using your standards to determine what a Christian is or is not.

Christians are as diverse (there?s a nice Liberal/Democrat word for ya) as all of society. There are baby Christians that are esily corrupted by the outside and then there are adults, like me, that have access to all things.

There aren?t a lot of plays in the Liberal playbook. If you are stuck on a subject it?s time to call your opponent a ?troll?.

If a Christian is strong, powerful and opinionated, like me, you try to cut my balls off by saying that I should be weak and pliable so you bullies can run roughshod over the top of me.

You?ve castrated more that a few on this forum by the looks of things. It won?t happen to me.

Dig?

BTW.. thanks for the opportunity to get that out. I didn?t intend it as a personal. However, I do want to get real strong so that everyone is crustal clear where I'm coming from.

You might want to figure out who you are talking to before you go off shooting off your mouth.

I'm just about the last person on these forums you could ever call a liberal.