What Reagan Got Wrong

[DealMonkey]

I find myself disagreeing with Reagan too. Sometimes freedom requires a government that actively takes steps to ensure it. Someone has to stick up for the little guy . . .

What Reagan Got Wrong
Liberty is not the absence of government.
By William Saletan
Posted Sunday, June 6, 2004, at 7:16 AM PT

"There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts."

That was the money quote in Ronald Reagan's farewell address nine days before he left the White House in January 1989. It crystallized his philosophy. I call it Reagan's Law.

This is what Reagan did best: He clarified the clash of ideas. He forced people to take sides. If you agreed with him, you were conservative. If you didn't, you weren't.

Do you buy Reagan's Law? That depends on two related questions. First, do you define liberty as the right to do things, or the ability to take advantage of that right? If liberty is the right to make a decent living or attend a good school, then getting government out of the way will suffice. But if liberty is the ability to make a decent living or attend a good school, then getting government out of the way isn't enough. In fact, government expansion, in the form of student loans or job training, may be necessary.

Second, do you view private institutions?businesses, churches, communities, families?more as guardians of liberty or as threats to it? To the extent these institutions serve the individual, getting government out of the workplace (through deregulation) and out of the community (say, by permitting collective school prayer) serves liberty. But to the extent these institutions threaten the individual, liberty may be better served by government expansion, in the form of workplace regulation or injunctions against school prayer.

Reagan saw freedom as a set of legal rights. In his farewell speech, he recalled the unwelcome trend that had drawn him into politics: "Through more and more rules and regulations and confiscatory taxes, the government was taking more of our money, more of our options, and more of our freedom."

Reagan also saw private institutions as guardians of freedom. "Between the government and the individual, there are a great number of natural, voluntary organizations which people form for themselves--like the family, the church, the neighborhood, and the workplace, where people learn, grow, help, and prosper," he opined in one speech. In another, he argued, "We must remove government's smothering hand ... to reinvigorate those social and economic institutions which serve as a buffer and a bridge between the individual and the state."

In the years since Reagan left office, I've become more hawkish and more libertarian. But I still can't accept his narrow understanding of freedom. For too many Americans, captivity is the inability to pay bills, save money, or go to college. For too many, the local tyrant is a company or religious majority. Government can impose worse captivity or become a greater tyrant, but not with the predictability of a law of physics. Liberty doesn't necessarily contract as government expands. Sometimes, you need more government to get more liberty.

So Reagan was wrong. In clarifying his own views, he clarified mine: I'm not a conservative. If he has done the same for you, this would be a good day to thank him.

Slate.com

 

[charrison]

More often than not, when goverment expands, freedom is lost.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: charrison
More often than not, when goverment expands, freedom is lost.

More often than not what ordinary unredeemed people touch turns to sh!t. You are the government. You are the private sector. If you are involved it's a mess. The essence of managing a mess is a balance of messed up powers. All gov or all private sector is a recipe for disaster. Balance, think, about it.

 

[heartsurgeon]

here are a couple of great Reagan quotes:

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidise it.

Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book.

he had a way with words!

 

[NightCrawler]

The Government has there hand in everyone's pie and most of the time it's just not needed. The Government should settle disputes and keep the big guys from picking on the little guys. There not really needed for basic day to day living.

 

[conjur]

their/they're

 

[Infohawk]

Sometimes I think I'm happy about the deregulation that Reagan initiated (correct me if he didn't). It seems to have helped the consumers in the airline industry. But some of it was nasty. Like the part that stopped requiring media stations to be honest brokers (I forget the name of that regulation was). It created disinformation-monsters like Rush. I wonder if he knew that was coming.

 

[AFB]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: charrison
More often than not, when goverment expands, freedom is lost.

More often than not what ordinary unredeemed people touch turns to sh!t. You are the government. You are the private sector. If you are involved it's a mess. The essence of managing a mess is a balance of messed up powers. All gov or all private sector is a recipe for disaster. Balance, think, about it.

:beer:

But who likes to think ?

 

[Painman]

This article sums up my thoughts pretty well. Reagan was prez during my politically formative years and he helped make a non-conservative out of me as well. Thanks Ron. :beer:

 

[conjur]

I'll tell ya, though, Reagan was very partisan. C-SPAN is replaying his speech from the 1992 GOP Convention.


http://www.presidentreagan.info/speeches/rnc.cfm



One thing strikes me, though, as very appropros and must be directed to the current administration:

But we knew then what the liberal Democrat leaders just couldn't figure out: the sky would not fall if America restored her strength and resolve. The sky would not fall if an American president spoke the truth. The only thing that would fall was the Berlin Wall.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Painman
This article sums up my thoughts pretty well. Reagan was prez during my politically formative years and he helped make a non-conservative out of me as well. Thanks Ron. :beer:

Yes, a big "thank you" is in order. I tip my hat to you RR. :beer:

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Painman
This article sums up my thoughts pretty well. Reagan was prez during my politically formative years and he helped make a non-conservative out of me as well. Thanks Ron. :beer:

Curious...being as I was a teenager when Reagan was first elected, he was the first President I really paid much attention to. I remember various things from the Carter administration but, frankly, I didn't give two sh*ts about politics in my pre-teen years.

The people I hung out with in high school were the "honors track" and most have gone on to be CFOs, Drs., lawyers, etc. Many were also fans of Family Ties and Michael J. Fox seemed to represent a good portion of us...young...hungry to make a name for ourselves...ready to break into business or what-have-you. His character on that show was a big Reagan fan. I must say I was partly influenced by that, as well.

I dunno...just rambling on a bit tonight.

 

[glenn1]

If you interpret Reagan's words to mean that he was an anarchist, sure. The title of the article you linked implied that also, "Liberty is not the absence of government." I doubt that many will disagree with that premise.

 

[LunarRay]

Do you buy Reagan's Law? That depends on two related questions. First, do you define liberty as the right to do things, or the ability to take advantage of that right? If liberty is the right to make a decent living or attend a good school, then getting government out of the way will suffice. But if liberty is the ability to make a decent living or attend a good school, then getting government out of the way isn't enough. In fact, government expansion, in the form of student loans or job training, may be necessary.

Reagan apparently believed that so long as the various 'Liberty' providers were unhinged from the jamb of government intervention they would provide for all the seekers based on the seeker's individual abiltiy to acquire that 'Liberty'. I think he very much believed in a 'Class' structure as being the means to insure a stable population. "To each according to his gifts and from each equally" Problem is the provider of 'Liberty' wanted more than his share and the easiest way to achieve this provided a less than appropriate share to the 'Little Guy'... Of course, the little guy didn't have all that many gifts... but, he thought he did and felt he was getting it.. but, what he really got in relation to the 'Bigger Guy' was a National Debt increase that he'll share equally in..
I started disliking Reagan's Fiscal Policy ideology as soon as he adopted just about every utterance of Art Laffer. I much prefer the 'Squished Up' Economic policy of the Demand Sider..

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Painman
This article sums up my thoughts pretty well. Reagan was prez during my politically formative years and he helped make a non-conservative out of me as well. Thanks Ron. :beer:

Curious...being as I was a teenager when Reagan was first elected, he was the first President I really paid much attention to. I remember various things from the Carter administration but, frankly, I didn't give two sh*ts about politics in my pre-teen years.

The people I hung out with in high school were the "honors track" and most have gone on to be CFOs, Drs., lawyers, etc. Many were also fans of Family Ties and Michael J. Fox seemed to represent a good portion of us...young...hungry to make a name for ourselves...ready to break into business or what-have-you. His character on that show was a big Reagan fan. I must say I was partly influenced by that, as well.

I dunno...just rambling on a bit tonight.

Yep - I loved that show because of M. Fox and his love affair with Reagan. I really probably didn't know exactly what it was all about but I seemed to enjoy the fact that he lived and breathed Reagan. In later years when I better understood what Reagan was actually about and how he lead with eternal optimism - but I still remember becoming a M.Fox fan inspite of his teen-wolf movie

CkG

 

[rickn]

He also got AIDS wrong. He completely ignored it. A very big mistake on his part. He did relent towards the end of his presidency though

 

[Painman]

I look at gov't tyrrany and private (corporate) tyrrany with the same suspicious eye. Moonie summed it up pretty well. People are too susceptible to their fears and desires, so checks and balances are a good thing. In my mind, a good gov't protects people from each other

As for MJ Fox, I never identified with his character. I'm too individualistic and willful to survive for long in Corporate America's higher echelons, nor have I ever really wanted to be rich/powerful. I don't want handouts either - I collected unemployment for a short time in '88 and that's the only stipend I've ever accepted. It made me feel very undignified

What REALLY turned me away from Reagan was his fusion of the Republican party with the Religious Right. I am for 100% secular government.

 

[Infohawk]

Was Reagan big on the religious right? I thought that was more a 90s thing. I saw him on 60 minutes (the liberal media: a glowing review of his life) and he said "god damn" in a light-hearted (not fundamentalist) sort of way off the record. I wonder how deep his allegiances were.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Was Reagan big on the religious right? I thought that was more a 90s thing. I saw him on 60 minutes (the liberal media: a glowing review of his life) and he said "god damn" in a light-hearted (not fundamentalist) sort of way off the record. I wonder how deep his allegiances were.

Reagan's feelings about Morals, the Church, and Government.
Great speech - one mostly forgotten though because he had so many great speeches.

CkG

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Was Reagan big on the religious right? I thought that was more a 90s thing. I saw him on 60 minutes (the liberal media: a glowing review of his life) and he said "god damn" in a light-hearted (not fundamentalist) sort of way off the record. I wonder how deep his allegiances were.

Reagan's feelings about Morals, the Church, and Government.
Great speech - one mostly forgotten though because he had so many great speeches.

CkG

I don't question his official positions. I also don't question a politician's willingness to please an audience.

It just seems like he was more of a hollywood type at first who wasn't a fundamentalist. Sure he became politically conservative at a later time in life, but I have doubts people change their views of religion and god so late in the game. Do you have any info about what role religion played in his life personally? Like the equivalent of GWB going to bible study? I need to see more than a speech to believe he was deep-down into it instead of just being a politician and ingratiating any support he could get.

 

[Painman]

Yeah, that speech CAD linked is telling... plus, Ronnie was quite friendly with Jerry Falwell of the now defunct Moral Majority...

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Was Reagan big on the religious right? I thought that was more a 90s thing. I saw him on 60 minutes (the liberal media: a glowing review of his life) and he said "god damn" in a light-hearted (not fundamentalist) sort of way off the record. I wonder how deep his allegiances were.

Reagan's feelings about Morals, the Church, and Government.
Great speech - one mostly forgotten though because he had so many great speeches.

CkG

I don't question his official positions. I also don't question a politician's willingness to please an audience.

It just seems like he was more of a hollywood type at first who wasn't a fundamentalist. Sure he became politically conservative at a later time in life, but I have doubts people change their views of religion and god so late in the game. Do you have any info about what role religion played in his life personally? Like the equivalent of GWB going to bible study? I need to see more than a speech to believe he was deep-down into it instead of just being a politician and ingratiating any support he could get.

Read the rest of his speeches - they are all over. You'll see his deep devotion for God. You can't dismiss this a "politicking" He believed what he said in that speech.

CkG

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Read the rest of his speeches - they are all over. You'll see his deep devotion for God. You can't dismiss this a "politicking" He believed what he said in that speech.

He was an actor. I'm not saying he wasn't ultra-devout, I just haven't seen evidence of it and I'm not going to take his speeches as proof given that he was an actor (and even if he wasn't politicians have to be able to lie to get to the presidency).

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Read the rest of his speeches - they are all over. You'll see his deep devotion for God. You can't dismiss this a "politicking" He believed what he said in that speech.

He was an actor. I'm not saying he wasn't ultra-devout, I just haven't seen evidence of it and I'm not going to take his speeches as proof given that he was an actor (and even if he wasn't politicians have to be able to lie to get to the presidency).

Here is a little help since it's obvious you aren't familiar with Reagan's views/morals/principles.

I happen to believe he was especially right on this.

CkG

 

[Infohawk]

Is it true he had lucky charms and believed in astrology? (Which are no-nos for fundamentalists).