What needs to be done in Iraq?

[Orsorum]

Bump. C'mon, CkG, I know you've got some good ideas.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Bump. C'mon, CkG, I know you've got some good ideas.

And get attacked by the wolves who don't and won't post ideas of thier own? I'll pass for now. I've got answers for you but I don't know if you guys can handle 'em

CkG

 

[Moonbeam]

Don't worry about me, Caddy. I posted what I thought. Step up to the plate.

Caddy specializes in absurd objections to people's posts, but I'm sure he can invent something hilarious here.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Bump. C'mon, CkG, I know you've got some good ideas.

And get attacked by the wolves who don't and won't post ideas of thier own? I'll pass for now. I've got answers for you but I don't know if you guys can handle 'em

CkG

I've handled much more radical ideas than you can throw at me, I can assure you. I am still collecting my own thoughts on the matter, but am interested to see what those more intelligent individuals can come up with.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Bump. C'mon, CkG, I know you've got some good ideas.

And get attacked by the wolves who don't and won't post ideas of thier own? I'll pass for now. I've got answers for you but I don't know if you guys can handle 'em

CkG

I've handled much more radical ideas than you can throw at me, I can assure you. I am still collecting my own thoughts on the matter, but am interested to see what those more intelligent individuals can come up with.

Real simple.

Continue with reconstruction and continue handing the goverment over the Iraqis. Kinda like what we are doing now, unfortunatly it does not happen over night.

 

[DealMonkey]

It seems a little weird to blame the anti-war people for not having ideas on what to do in Iraq now that we've taken over dontcha think? I mean, considering they didn't want to do this in the first place.

I don't think you should be surprised when the pro-war demographic is 'on their own' with this thing.

But, seriously what doesn't need to be done in Iraq? You've got to offer security so the general population isn't afraid to walk the streets. You've got to get people back to work. Get basic services up and running. Repair infrastructure. Make sure that the interim government is representative of all the various groups. The Shiites are pretty PO'd right now, give them at least a voice in the transition team. You obviously don't want an islamic movement coming to power, so you've got to be careful there. I liked the suggestion of breaking Iraq into states based on the already existing areas of Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis. Maybe each state can be somewhat autonomous but still under the control of the central government. I don't think you can allow Islamic law to spring up in any of the states however, you have to be careful of that...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
It seems a little weird to blame the anti-war people for not having ideas on what to do in Iraq now that we've taken over dontcha think? I mean, considering they didn't want to do this in the first place.

I don't think you should be surprised when the pro-war demographic is 'on their own' with this thing.

But, seriously what doesn't need to be done in Iraq? You've got to offer security so the general population isn't afraid to walk the streets. You've got to get people back to work. Get basic services up and running. Repair infrastructure. Make sure that the interim government is representative of all the various groups. The Shiites are pretty PO'd right now, give them at least a voice in the transition team. You obviously don't want an islamic movement coming to power, so you've got to be careful there. I liked the suggestion of breaking Iraq into states based on the already existing areas of Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis. Maybe each state can be somewhat autonomous but still under the control of the central government. I don't think you can allow Islamic law to spring up in any of the states however, you have to be careful of that...

And almost everything you mentioned is being done.

 

[DealMonkey]

Right, I didn't say it wasn't

Interesting article in the LA Times talking about how the Kurdish areas in the north of Iraq are actually very calm in comparison to the rest of the country (mostly Baghdad).

Outside Baghdad, Oases of Calm

The Kurdish north, spared most of the fighting during the war and the fallout since, is evolving into what may be a model for a united Iraq.

SULAYMANIYAH, Iraq -- There are no nightly power blackouts, bursts of automatic-weapons fire, rumbling tanks or ominous helicopter fly-bys.

Residents stroll the shops, munch a burger at MaDonal or sip a beer in an outdoor cafe by the canal.

No one frets about beating curfew or getting stuck at a checkpoint. Cars and trucks flow smoothly down the streets, aided by smartly outfitted traffic cops. U.S. troops can be seen without helmets or flak vests, sometimes posing for photos with appreciative residents.

...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Right, I didn't say it wasn't

Interesting article in the LA Times talking about how the Kurdish areas in the north of Iraq are actually very calm in comparison to the rest of the country (mostly Baghdad).

Outside Baghdad, Oases of Calm

The Kurdish north, spared most of the fighting during the war and the fallout since, is evolving into what may be a model for a united Iraq.

SULAYMANIYAH, Iraq -- There are no nightly power blackouts, bursts of automatic-weapons fire, rumbling tanks or ominous helicopter fly-bys.

Residents stroll the shops, munch a burger at MaDonal or sip a beer in an outdoor cafe by the canal.

No one frets about beating curfew or getting stuck at a checkpoint. Cars and trucks flow smoothly down the streets, aided by smartly outfitted traffic cops. U.S. troops can be seen without helmets or flak vests, sometimes posing for photos with appreciative residents.

...

OUtside Baghdad, that is like most of the country....

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
It seems a little weird to blame the anti-war people for not having ideas on what to do in Iraq now that we've taken over dontcha think? I mean, considering they didn't want to do this in the first place.

I don't think you should be surprised when the pro-war demographic is 'on their own' with this thing.

But, seriously what doesn't need to be done in Iraq? You've got to offer security so the general population isn't afraid to walk the streets. You've got to get people back to work. Get basic services up and running. Repair infrastructure. Make sure that the interim government is representative of all the various groups. The Shiites are pretty PO'd right now, give them at least a voice in the transition team. You obviously don't want an islamic movement coming to power, so you've got to be careful there. I liked the suggestion of breaking Iraq into states based on the already existing areas of Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis. Maybe each state can be somewhat autonomous but still under the control of the central government. I don't think you can allow Islamic law to spring up in any of the states however, you have to be careful of that...

Every single thing you said up until the breaking Iraq into sections is happening. You just haven't been fed the info here on the forum. Well actually I think Charrison posts the info but it quickly drops off the page because no one comments or cares because it doesn't fit thier agenda(of bashing bush). PS - the shiites do have representation linky

I'll try to give you my take on what should be done from NOW forward. It is said that some 7000 Iraqis are going to be trained and put in charge of guarding things(I believe ammo dumps and the like) to free up our soldiers to go on hunting strikes. I'd say that needs to happen but on a broader basis. We need to show the Iraqis that we trust them to rebuild and secure their country. The Iraqi council couldn't elect a "president" last week, but that isn't a bad thing; the last thing we want or need is tension over who is "president" and have uprisings over that until people get more used to the idea of a representative gov't. We also need to make sure that our efforts to rebuild and upgrade the utilities are doubled and redoubled - not only with our people but using Iraqi's who want to work - train them how to do things so they can be self sufficient when the time comes for us to pull back from those duties. This whole thing is about trust. I don't think they entirely trust us -they do superficially but that's what they are used to. For many decades they've had to pile into the streets with fake smiles on thier face because they HAD to, They don't know how to truely trust authority.

Just a few of my musings on the rebuilding.

CkG

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well, this is much harder a question than how to deal with Iraq short of a war before we invaded. The particulars of how to do things best are elusive. What the heck, I'll go for it.

1) Crawl back to the UN if need be and get support. We want as many main players in on this as possible. Get US soldiers away from the populace as much as possible.

2) Get whatever moderate Arab factions exist to send representatives as intermediataries between us and the Iraqis. We are failing abismially at dealing with the Iraqi cultural POV. Iraqi representatives may prefer dealing with people of a more compatable world view.

3) Have elections at local levels to send reps to be heard NOW. Even if they havent power, at least people there will know they are being heard. Every reasonable (and perhaps some unreasonable) request needs to be dealt with in a public and timely manner

4) Be prepared to divide up the country if needed to achieve stability. It may not be needed, but it had better be planned for. If it is going to happen, we may make the transition smoother and less bloody. If the people of Iraq don't want to be part of that artificial nation, they may have civil war the moment we leave.

5) Continue rebuilding infrastructure, with the emphasis on having the Iraqis doing it with whatever material and support we have. Keep people employed, not sitting around.

That's a start.

 

[Moonbeam]

Within Islam is a tradition of love and compassion. Rebuild Iraq on the basis of progressive Islam. Islam, like Christianity is a bridge to reality. The difference is that within Islam there are many more people of real knowledge. Let the love of God guide the way. In every human being is a seed of an infinite being. Some call him God, some the nature of man. Man is afraid to trust. He needs control to stop his fear.

 

[Cesar]

The Shiites are pretty PO'd right now, give them at least a voice in the transition team. You obviously don't want an islamic movement coming to power, so you've got to be careful there. I liked the suggestion of breaking Iraq into states based on the already existing areas of Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis. Maybe each state can be somewhat autonomous but still under the control of the central government. I don't think you can allow Islamic law to spring up in any of the states however, you have to be careful of that...[/quote] And almost everything you mentioned is being done.[/quote]

Whats wrong with an islamic gov. if the pll voted for it. You can't force and oppress the people we will see an uprising force in the country and it will be impossible to stop!!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Well, this is much harder a question than how to deal with Iraq short of a war before we invaded. The particulars of how to do things best are elusive. What the heck, I'll go for it.

1) Crawl back to the UN if need be and get support. We want as many main players in on this as possible. Get US soldiers away from the populace as much as possible.

2) Get whatever moderate Arab factions exist to send representatives as intermediataries between us and the Iraqis. We are failing abismially at dealing with the Iraqi cultural POV. Iraqi representatives may prefer dealing with people of a more compatable world view.

3) Have elections at local levels to send reps to be heard NOW. Even if they havent power, at least people there will know they are being heard. Every reasonable (and perhaps some unreasonable) request needs to be dealt with in a public and timely manner

4) Be prepared to divide up the country if needed to achieve stability. It may not be needed, but it had better be planned for. If it is going to happen, we may make the transition smoother and less bloody. If the people of Iraq don't want to be part of that artificial nation, they may have civil war the moment we leave.

5) Continue rebuilding infrastructure, with the emphasis on having the Iraqis doing it with whatever material and support we have. Keep people employed, not sitting around.

That's a start.

1. At this point there is no need to go to the UN.

2. We are doing this.

3. Local elections have occured for city councils and such.

4. I know this has been discussed.

5. That is being done. Much of work is subcontracted out the locals when possible.

 

[tcsenter]

What needs to be done in Iraq is something which can no longer be done.

Digging mass graves and bulldozing the bodies of about 20,000 extremists and radicals in them. That's the way you used to deal with opportunistic insurgents and insurrectionists who threatened to destabilize your operations and success in hopes of filling the political void and seizing power for themselves. Its the only effective way of dealing with opportunistic insurgents and insurrectionists.

But you know we're all touchy feely about that kind of thing these days.