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What Moron Designed the HDMI interface and why?

P

Perryg114

Senior member
So what were they thinking when they made HDMI. The resolution is worse than VGA/DVI and the scaling sucks. HDMI and computers don't seem to get along very well. Other than sound, what is the advantage? Sharp edges like text, look crappy in HDMI and the image does not fit the screen. Why did they re-invent the wheel and get it wrong? HDCP is another issue. This past weekend I went to the trouble of installing an HDMI video card in my HTPC and the one movie that I have that is HDCP does not benefit at all from 1080 resolution. Actually, I have found that the new releases are almost as good in DVD as they are in BD. Yeah if you are 3 ft from the screen you can see some difference but sitting on the couch it is really hard to tell. Tonight I went back to VGA interface on the computer when I found out I could not see the borders in windows.

Perry
 
The issue is actually with either the card or the TV. Check to see if your TV has a 1:1 pixel mapping mode so it doesn't overscan and that should fix at least part of your issue. Depending on the card, you may need to turn overscan correction scaling off but you'll know that for sure once you stop your TV from overscanning. If your TV isn't using the whole screen anymore you'll know that your video card is trying to scale to reduce the effects of overscan and you'll need to tell it to stop doing that.

The biggest problem I have with HDMI is I don't understand why they didn't allow for a physical way to attach the connector to the device. I certainly haven't had any of the problems you've stated.
 
Yah, the issues you're having don't really have anything to do with HDMI. It's really just how your TV treats HDMI inputs differently than the VGA input. Your TV assumes anything input through HDMI is a normal video source and "needs" various processing done like overscanning. With the VGA it knows the source is a PC and so these processing steps get disabled automatically.

You may never get perfect results through HDMI because most TVs don't support 4:4:4 chroma (full resolution colour) over HDMI, but if you follow BornStar's suggestion you should be able to get something that looks much better. You should also try disabling any other processing your TV does if you're working with text a lot.
 
Yep op fail, no problems with scaling here, if your tv is a pos sure, but blaming hdmi is missing the point. Most decent tv's have 1:1 mode which you should use anyways.
 
BornStar said:
The issue is actually with either the card or the TV. Check to see if your TV has a 1:1 pixel mapping mode so it doesn't overscan and that should fix at least part of your issue. Depending on the card, you may need to turn overscan correction scaling off but you'll know that for sure once you stop your TV from overscanning. If your TV isn't using the whole screen anymore you'll know that your video card is trying to scale to reduce the effects of overscan and you'll need to tell it to stop doing that.

The biggest problem I have with HDMI is I don't understand why they didn't allow for a physical way to attach the connector to the device. I certainly haven't had any of the problems you've stated.
Click to expand...

Something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/Locking-High-S.../dp/B003W044YI

Ive been thinking about getting one for my Pioneer plasma. For some reason the HDMI slot on the TV is a tad too large and the cable doesnt fit snugly in place and can fall out easily. Something like this should work for my problem but ive not gotten around to ordering one.
 
Zargon said:
HDMI is far superior to VGA
Click to expand...

I disagree. Other than the mandated hdcp crap, HDMI is good. But "far superior to vga", i don't think so. About the only thing i really see it has is audio added to the cable and digital signal. Neither of which is a big advantage. You can buy vga cables with audio cables molded into them. Digital signal... eh i don't think it is making that much of a difference if any at all. I remember when DVI came out and comparisons were being made against vga. I don't remember any quality related issues, just that it was suppose to take out a level of signal processing.

As for the new addition of Ethernet.. well nothing yet is using it that i'm aware.

I hope you aren't thinking high resolution isn't possible with vga, because it is. Higher than tv 1080p resolution.

One thing i don't like about hdmi cables is their size and stiffness in relation to the connector size.
 
Since HDMI is just DVI + digital sound, I could understand if people weren't fussed about DVI vs HDMI . . . but I don't know how folks can live with VGA.

Unless you have amazing expensive super-shielded VGA cables (which I've never seen in action) VGA being analog is horribly susceptable to ghosting, which only gets worse as resolution and refresh rate increase. Since the first time I connected a screen with DVI I would never go back to VGA.
 
soulcougher73 said:
Something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/Locking-High-S.../dp/B003W044YI

Ive been thinking about getting one for my Pioneer plasma. For some reason the HDMI slot on the TV is a tad too large and the cable doesnt fit snugly in place and can fall out easily. Something like this should work for my problem but ive not gotten around to ordering one.
Click to expand...
This is the best locking connector I've seen but it isn't going to work with all HDMI ports.

http://www.bestdealcables.com/c-31-hdmi-cables.aspx
 
I've seen ghosting on vga with crappy cables. But with decent cables, i don't see an issue. I have nothing against dvi and the only thing i have against hdmi is hdcp. But that doesn't stop me from using it on one of my computers. (dvi-D to hdmi) But all of my others are vga through a kvm.

I've also seen more ghosting related to cheap lcd refresh than i have due to vga cables.
 
JoeBleed said:
I disagree. Other than the mandated hdcp crap, HDMI is good. But "far superior to vga", i don't think so. About the only thing i really see it has is audio added to the cable and digital signal. Neither of which is a big advantage. You can buy vga cables with audio cables molded into them. Digital signal... eh i don't think it is making that much of a difference if any at all. I remember when DVI came out and comparisons were being made against vga. I don't remember any quality related issues, just that it was suppose to take out a level of signal processing.

As for the new addition of Ethernet.. well nothing yet is using it that i'm aware.

I hope you aren't thinking high resolution isn't possible with vga, because it is. Higher than tv 1080p resolution.

One thing i don't like about hdmi cables is their size and stiffness in relation to the connector size.
Click to expand...

I have not heard of VGA supporting 120hz 1080p. HDMI 1.4a can.
 
Zargon said:
I have not heard of VGA supporting 120hz 1080p. HDMI 1.4a can.
Click to expand...

What devices make use of it exactly?

Depending on the video card's ramdac, it might do that at 120hz. I know good cards and monitors would do higher resolutions than 1920x1080p and 85hz with out issue on vga cables before dvi. Cable quality and length will come into play at the upper end, but the same seems to be true for hdmi.

Where is the 120hz 1080p from? is that specifically for 3d or ? otherwise 1080p is just 60hz.
 
JoeBleed said:
What devices make use of it exactly?

Depending on the video card's ramdac, it might do that at 120hz. I know good cards and monitors would do higher resolutions than 1920x1080p and 85hz with out issue on vga cables before dvi. Cable quality and length will come into play at the upper end, but the same seems to be true for hdmi.

Where is the 120hz 1080p from? is that specifically for 3d or ? otherwise 1080p is just 60hz.
Click to expand...

yup 3d. if you can drive that you can game at it too, but thats alot of pixles to push.

the PS3 claims it does it, but its really 720p at 120hzx for 3d I think in killzone 3 and socom.

its also awesome.
 
HDMI does in fact suck ass. The connectors are flimsy. The cables are thick and unbendable for any decent length run. There must be something about the protocol because syncing issues are extremely common over HDMI. A 90 degree adapter between the 25' cable and my projector and the image sparkles and cuts out. It's completely unwatchable.

Bring on HDBaseT. The sooner HDMI dies a horrible death the better off the home theater crowd will be. Audio and video over cheap-ass cat 5e? I'll take ten.
 
KnightBreed said:
There must be something about the protocol because syncing issues are extremely common over HDMI. A 90 degree adapter between the 25' cable and my projector and the image sparkles and cuts out. It's completely unwatchable.

Bring on HDBaseT. The sooner HDMI dies a horrible death the better off the home theater crowd will be. Audio and video over cheap-ass cat 5e? I'll take ten.
Click to expand...

I'm betting the syncing issues are related to the mandated hdcp crap. I'm not sure, but i have my doubts hdcp was intended by the actual creator of hdmi. Could be wrong, just a guess. I have a thin hdmi cable that came with a dish network dvr. It works. it is also short. The longer run cables need thicker gauge wire to help carry the signal the distance. (my understanding). I also have a 6 foot hdmi cable that is very thick and stiff. I wish i hadn't gotten it for a 6 foot cable. But it was cheap....

As for HDBaseT, if they can do it with out a lose in quality, i'm all for it. But i'm betting it will be a challenge.
 
BornStar said:
The biggest problem I have with HDMI is I don't understand why they didn't allow for a physical way to attach the connector to the device. I certainly haven't had any of the problems you've stated.
Click to expand...

You do physically attach the connector to the device.

Unless your HDMI cables all magically work wirelessly.
 
Numenorean said:
You do physically attach the connector to the device.

Unless your HDMI cables all magically work wirelessly.
Click to expand...


I think he means screwing it to the device, like you can with VGA cables as well as most DVI cables. I've never seen an HDMI connector housing with those two little thumb screws to attach the cable end. So if you have a pretty thick cable, you have to be pretty careful about moving your components around (such as when you have to pull the components out to make the connection and then push them back into a media center).
 
KnightBreed said:
Bring on HDBaseT. The sooner HDMI dies a horrible death the better off the home theater crowd will be. Audio and video over cheap-ass cat 5e? I'll take ten.
Click to expand...

I don't see HDBaseT ever replacing HDMI. It's a niche product for integrators, most ordinary consumers could care less.
 
Perryg114 said:
So what were they thinking when they made HDMI. The resolution is worse than VGA/DVI and the scaling sucks. HDMI and computers don't seem to get along very well. Other than sound, what is the advantage? Sharp edges like text, look crappy in HDMI and the image does not fit the screen. Why did they re-invent the wheel and get it wrong? HDCP is another issue. This past weekend I went to the trouble of installing an HDMI video card in my HTPC and the one movie that I have that is HDCP does not benefit at all from 1080 resolution. Actually, I have found that the new releases are almost as good in DVD as they are in BD. Yeah if you are 3 ft from the screen you can see some difference but sitting on the couch it is really hard to tell. Tonight I went back to VGA interface on the computer when I found out I could not see the borders in windows.

Perry
Click to expand...

:awe:
 
Ross Ridge said:
I don't see HDBaseT ever replacing HDMI. It's a niche product for integrators, most ordinary consumers could care less.
Click to expand...

If it can really provider power over the ethernet lines and be able to power things like small TV's and speakers, they could really gain some traction based on that.

People being able to put electronics where it used to be difficult (outside, ceiling/top corner of a room, bathrooms, etc). No longer a worry to have a power cable there as well.

ps: its couldn't care less, not could care less.
 
Last edited:
JoeBleed said:
I disagree. Other than the mandated hdcp crap, HDMI is good. But "far superior to vga", i don't think so. About the only thing i really see it has is audio added to the cable and digital signal. Neither of which is a big advantage. You can buy vga cables with audio cables molded into them. Digital signal... eh i don't think it is making that much of a difference if any at all. I remember when DVI came out and comparisons were being made against vga. I don't remember any quality related issues, just that it was suppose to take out a level of signal processing.

As for the new addition of Ethernet.. well nothing yet is using it that i'm aware.

I hope you aren't thinking high resolution isn't possible with vga, because it is. Higher than tv 1080p resolution.

One thing i don't like about hdmi cables is their size and stiffness in relation to the connector size.
Click to expand...
VGA just doesn't look as good as HDMI or DVI. Put the same monitors side by side with one on VGA and the other on HDMI and you'll instantly notice the difference.
 
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