What makes a video game great?

[BigToque]

I think it's amazing how something like Zelda (which is my favorite game series of all time) is always popular.

Starcraft is considered one of the best games of all time, and yet there are many other titles that all look and play the same.

Gameplay is extremely important (obviously), but I would tend to think there is something in the best games that draws people in. The story? Being able to associate with characters?

What takes a game from being a "good" game and putting it over the top and becomming "great"?

 

[JDrake]

Battle Rifles

 

[Acanthus]

gameplay, balance, replayability, immersion

Edit: most modern games seem to missing at least 2 of those components.

 

[BigToque]

^

 

[fishbits]

Originality can make a good game great. Feeling connected to/caring about the character/ story/ game world. Hitting the moving target sweet-spot where the player feels like his skills/problem-solving are winning the day as he overcomes challenges in real-time. Too hard can bring a game down, and too easy always does.

 

[Bowsky]

I always preferred games that were quick to pick up but very difficult to master. StarCraft is an excellent example. You can enjoy the game just having picked it up, but it takes countless hours to become well versed in taking advantage in the many different options.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
gameplay, balance, replayability, immersion

Edit: most modern games seem to missing at least 2 of those components.

add creativity and originality to your list
[and add two more to your missing list]

most games just copy successful bits and pieces from other games . . . i cannot believe how badly SystemShock/2 was ripped off
:disgust:

and of course 'the hook' . . . the undefinable that draws the player into the game

right now i am addicted to Oblivion . . . as a (former) NON-fantasy RPGer [my ONLY other "RPGlite" was KotOR series] i have to say it is a great game.
:thumbsup:

edit:

damn i am sleepy [curse you, Oblivion]

i forgot - the PLOT or story has to be good

. . . and the music has to set the mood . . . good audio and sound effects . . .

there should also be good AI and interactibility . . .and good gfx sure doesn't hurt.

So, lots of good things all come together to make a Great game.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

There's quite a few factors which prevent games from being awesome in my book, so I'll just list a few of the most major negatives.

1. I don't like reloading a thousand times until I get a part just right, which ruin Half-Life and System Shock II.

2. I don't like having to start the game all over because of an error I made in the beginning of the game, which ruin Baldur's Gate II and Alpha Centauri.

3. I don't like repetition of gameplay where you have to do the same type of mission over and over, which ruin Halo and Gunman Chronicles.

4. I don't like constant crashing and game ending bugs, which ruin Deus Ex 2.

If a game developer can avoid those four things and give a good amount of non-linearity, that qualifies a game for being great. So far the only games which meet those standards are Deus Ex, The Marathon Trilogy, Mafia, and Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny.

Originally posted by: apoppin
most games just copy successful bits and pieces from other games . . . i cannot believe how badly SystemShock/2 was ripped off
:disgust:

What's so bad about that? If Deus Ex hadn't "ripped off" System Shock II the gaming world would be much worse off.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: apoppin
most games just copy successful bits and pieces from other games . . . i cannot believe how badly SystemShock/2 was ripped off
:disgust:

What's so bad about that? If Deus Ex hadn't "ripped off" System Shock II the gaming world would be much worse off.

DE was an exception that IMPROVED on SS's clumsy [and crappy] interface.

Let's use a BAD and much more typical example - Doom3 ripped off SS2's PDA . . . that turned out really well.
:thumbsdown:

at least when developers 'take' an idea they should use ORIGINALITY in applying it to the new game . . . something like Riddick:EfBB - which does nothing new yet still manages to present the FPS in an innovative way {like 'sneaking', for example]

Both Riddick and Oblivion are my examples of [fairly new] Great games.

 

[Schadenfroh]

For Anandtech it needs the following:

1. Made by Blizzard, Valve, or Epic Games (Unreal people)
2. Not made by (or published by) EA or id software.
Rule 2 exception: Battlefield 2 pre 1.2 in which being a PlaneTard makes you god and bunny hopping keeps you alive.
3. Works well on ATI (or nvidia) video cards, depending on the person posting.
4. Does not have a monthly fee.

That is all you need to have a great game here on anandtech

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
There's quite a few factors which prevent games from being awesome in my book, so I'll just list a few of the most major negatives.

1. I don't like reloading a thousand times until I get a part just right, which ruin Half-Life and System Shock II.

2. I don't like having to start the game all over because of an error I made in the beginning of the game, which ruin Baldur's Gate II and Alpha Centauri.

3. I don't like repetition of gameplay where you have to do the same type of mission over and over, which ruin Halo and Gunman Chronicles.

4. I don't like constant crashing and game ending bugs, which ruin Deus Ex 2.

If a game developer can avoid those four things and give a good amount of non-linearity, that qualifies a game for being great. So far the only games which meet those standards are Deus Ex, The Marathon Trilogy, Mafia, and Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny.

Originally posted by: apoppin
most games just copy successful bits and pieces from other games . . . i cannot believe how badly SystemShock/2 was ripped off
:disgust:

What's so bad about that? If Deus Ex hadn't "ripped off" System Shock II the gaming world would be much worse off.

how could you shoot yourself in the foot in bg2?

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
For Anandtech it needs the following:

1. Made by Blizzard, Valve, or Epic Games (Unreal people)
2. Not made by (or published by) EA or id software.
Rule 2 exception: Battlefield 2 pre 1.2 in wich being a plane tard makes you god and bunny hopping keeps you alive.
3. Works well on ATI (or nvidia) video cards, depending on the person posting.
4. Does not have a monthly fee.

That is all you need to have a great game here on anandtech

Sad but true, and everyone knows I'm the opposite.

 

[JimKiler]

This is a good question, look at Doom3 and Quake4, same engine and graphics but Doom3 goot great reviews and Quake 4 did not. I hated Doom3 because AI sucked, but loved Quake4 for the team I had at times even though it was not eye busting graphics by the time it came out.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: apoppin
DE was an exception that IMPROVED on SS's clumsy [and crappy] interface.

Let's use a BAD and much more typical example - Doom3 ripped off SS2's PDA . . . that turned out really well.
:thumbsdown:

at least when developers 'take' an idea they should use ORIGINALITY in applying it to the new game . . . something like Riddick:EfBB - which does nothing new yet still manages to present the FPS in an innovative way {like 'sneaking', for example]

Both Riddick and Oblivion are my examples of [fairly new] Great games.

Was the Doom 3 PDA really so bad though? The rest of the game was mediocre but it's not like they made it any worse.

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
For Anandtech it needs the following:

1. Made by Blizzard, Valve, or Epic Games (Unreal people)
2. Not made by (or published by) EA or id software.
Rule 2 exception: Battlefield 2 pre 1.2 in which being a PlaneTard makes you god and bunny hopping keeps you alive.
3. Works well on ATI (or nvidia) video cards, depending on the person posting.
4. Does not have a monthly fee.

That is all you need to have a great game here on anandtech

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, with the "for Anandtech" bit throwing me off. If not, then what about Wacraft III? It's Warcraft (II) with heroes and a 3D engine. UT2003 was a horrible game, although UT2004 improved off of it. Unreal II wasn't exactly without flaws either.

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
how could you shoot yourself in the foot in bg2?

I know this is my fault, but I played the game for quite a while without a cleric or any way of restoration outside of paying thousands for a scroll. Then I started fighting vampires and found it pretty much impossible to advance. There's probably other things as well, since your character doesn't change very much from its creation.

 

[shortylickens]

I think I feel the same way as everyone else concerning Deus Ex.
Really good. Shame we couldnt have more.
I am also enjoying Oblivion a great deal. But if we are honest with ourselves, its more evolutionary than revolutionary. Which isnt a bad thing!
If you got somethin that works, dont screw it up. I like having a faster-moving version of Morrowind that keeps me interested.

With Deus Ex 2, they went so far out of their way to improve it, the game wasnt even similar in its ability to hold my interest.

Getting back to the OP's question: A simple interface that lets me play the game easily, along with an epic story with enough variety to keep me coming back for more. Thats why I prefer Guild Wars and KOTOR and Baldurs Gate to the traditional MMO crap.
Sadly, you usually only get this epic style with RPG's. Many RPG's lately have been falling short of expectations.
Though by the same logic Half-Life 2 was pretty darn good. Much better story and action than Doom3. I actually managed to finish it without being bored.

RTS's are the same way. My favorites are the "Easy to learn, difficult to master " types. Act of War was a pleasant little suprise. Relatively simple interface and gameplay. The challenge and the entertainment came from the variety of combat, especially in the campaign.
I am not impressed with AOE 3, Empire Earth 2, Rise of Nations. If I wanted that much mind-bending and micro-managing, I'd play a traditional Grognard game.
I can put up with Age of Mythology for a little while.

 

[PrayForDeath]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
There's quite a few factors which prevent games from being awesome in my book, so I'll just list a few of the most major negatives.

1. I don't like reloading a thousand times until I get a part just right, which ruin Half-Life and System Shock II.

2. I don't like having to start the game all over because of an error I made in the beginning of the game, which ruin Baldur's Gate II and Alpha Centauri.

3. I don't like repetition of gameplay where you have to do the same type of mission over and over, which ruin Halo and Gunman Chronicles.

4. I don't like constant crashing and game ending bugs, which ruin Deus Ex 2.

If a game developer can avoid those four things and give a good amount of non-linearity, that qualifies a game for being great. So far the only games which meet those standards are Deus Ex, The Marathon Trilogy, Mafia, and Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny.

Originally posted by: apoppin
most games just copy successful bits and pieces from other games . . . i cannot believe how badly SystemShock/2 was ripped off
:disgust:

What's so bad about that? If Deus Ex hadn't "ripped off" System Shock II the gaming world would be much worse off.

Ironically, all the games that were in your "flawed games" list were successful.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
Ironically, all the games that were in your "flawed games" list were successful.

That probably depends on how you define success. System Shock II and Gunman Chronicles both sold pretty badly, and IIRC so did Alpha Centauri. I don't think that DX2 did so good either.

 

[Azndude2190]

Mostly gameplay...but nice gfx wouldnt hurt either

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
There's quite a few factors which prevent games from being awesome in my book, so I'll just list a few of the most major negatives.

2. I don't like having to start the game all over because of an error I made in the beginning of the game, which ruin Baldur's Gate II and Alpha Centauri.

I can understand a game like Alpha Centauri, but I dont get BG2.
I played through it many times. There are no mistakes you can make that REQUIRE a restart from the beginning. Unless you were running around trying to attack everybody in the game.
Its not Final Fantasy, man. Just cuz you can kill it doesnt mean you should try.
Mistakes usually just cost you some potential XP, unimportant treasure, or (at worst) a potential ally.
But the game is set up so you cant destroy the main storyline quests, unless you use cheats to make things disappear or reappear at the wrong time. As for making mistakes that get you killed, its always smart to make a special save at the start of a new dungeon.

Were you talking about character class selection?
Because all the classes have the potential to beat the game. Granted some of the more exotic classes (Monk, Sorcerer) are challenging to new players, but not impossible.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
I can understand a game like Alpha Centauri, but I dont get BG2.
I played through it many times. There are no mistakes you can make that REQUIRE a restart from the beginning. Unless you were running around trying to attack everybody in the game.
Its not Final Fantasy, man. Just cuz you can kill it doesnt mean you should try.
Mistakes usually just cost you some potential XP, unimportant treasure, or (at worst) a potential ally.
But the game is set up so you cant destroy the main storyline quests, unless you use cheats to make things disappear or reappear at the wrong time. As for making mistakes that get you killed, its always smart to make a special save at the start of a new dungeon.

Were you talking about character class selection?
Because all the classes have the potential to beat the game. Granted some of the more exotic classes (Monk, Sorcerer) are challenging to new players, but not impossible.

The game certainly isn't as hard after a second or third playthrough, but as an RPG newbie at the time I screwed myself in BG2 pretty badly. Things like not having a cleric or assuming that having a bard negates the need for a mage or thief cost me quite a bit of time. Of course, I learned from that and don't have any such problems now, but it was very annoying at first.

 

[shortylickens]

Did you know on the character record sheet there is a button called "Reform"?

You can dump party members and pick up new ones. Many of them go back to the Copper Coronet. Or you can dump them AT the copper coronet and then tell them to "Stay Here".

You arent stuck with the first few you pick up.

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: BigToque
I think it's amazing how something like Zelda (which is my favorite game series of all time) is always popular.

Starcraft is considered one of the best games of all time, and yet there are many other titles that all look and play the same.

Gameplay is extremely important (obviously), but I would tend to think there is something in the best games that draws people in. The story? Being able to associate with characters?

What takes a game from being a "good" game and putting it over the top and becomming "great"?

How much the developer & publisher CARE about the game and the customers is the most telling difference. If they're out for profit above all else (ala EA) then the games wil suffer as a result.

Gameplay, storyline, player freedom & replayability are all essentials for a great game and few pull it off.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: DeathReborn
How much the developer & publisher CARE about the game and the customers is the most telling difference. If they're out for profit above all else (ala EA) then the games wil suffer as a result.

Gameplay, storyline, player freedom & replayability are all essentials for a great game and few pull it off.

You cannot backup such an accusation against EA. I love every EA game I have, some of them are the best in their genre. NFSMW is the best racing game I have ever played on the PC. BF2 is one of the best FPS's. C&C Generals is one of the best RTS's of all time. I haven't gotten a bad EA game yet, I can only say that for one other developer.