What makes a server?

[Jimmyjammer]

Just wondering, I've been looking at servers and the specs are always a lot lower then similarly priced desktops (lower speed, less HDD etc) and I'm curious.

What makes a server a server? I mean, why are they so expensive when you get (seemingly) a lot less oomph!?

Are they built differently, or more stable? Do they run an OS? I'm clueless here, anyone wanna help?

 

[jsbush]

Scsi hard drives, different powersupplies. ECC memory, there are so many different things that justify the price difference.

 

[Jimmyjammer]

Originally posted by: jsbush
Scsi hard drives, different powersupplies. ECC memory, there are so many different things that justify the price difference.

So, scsi drives I can understand, but are EIDE drives still *way* behind in terms of speed or have they nearly caught up to scsi speed? I remember a friend saying they're nearly equal, but he's not the most reliable source.

ECC memory, not sure what that is, will research.

How about an OS? When you turn on a server what do you 'see'? Most don't seem to come with a monitor. These questions all no doubt seem stupid but I've no idea and need to learn!

Cheers guys!

 

[mcveigh]

you don't care abotu FPS in UT2003, you want stability, and reliability. and sometimes raw processing power

 

[Keego]

bottom line is redundancy. 99.99% uptime.

 

[her209]

A server is a process that runs on a computer that services clients that request it. For example, you can run a web server on your computer.

Now, to make that server respond best, you will need better hardware, e.g., SCSI hard drives, RAID card, exhoribant amt of fast ECC RAM, fast and/or multiple CPU, and high bandwith connection. It all depends on what you intend to use it for.

 

[Jimmyjammer]

Originally posted by: Keego
bottom line is redundancy. 99.99% uptime.

So they're more stable than a normal PC? Is this cause of the lack of an OS or do they run OSes?

What makes them more stable?

I've read up on ECC RAM and see that it error corrects and that's all good but why don't desktops use it to gain more stability and lessen crashes?

Sorry again if these are stoopid questions.

 

[Zugzwang152]

depends on what kind of server you want, a game server you can run on a lame old desktop machine, the same for a file server. It's when you get into corporate level servers, that come on racks, like the kind Sun makes, that you see the real goodies at work.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

Originally posted by: Keego
bottom line is redundancy. 99.99% uptime.

So they're more stable than a normal PC? Is this cause of the lack of an OS or do they run OSes?

What makes them more stable?

I've read up on ECC RAM and see that it error corrects and that's all good but why don't desktops use it to gain more stability and lessen crashes?

Sorry again if these are stoopid questions.

"Servers" basically run the same OS.

ECC takes a little more time to do. Normal desktops don't use it because you only really need ECC for mission critical stuff when individual bit changes affect the result.

 

[Jimmyjammer]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
depends on what kind of server you want, a game server you can run on a lame old desktop machine, the same for a file server. It's when you get into corporate level servers, that come on racks, like the kind Sun makes, that you see the real goodies at work.

Cool, ok so say if I needed a server for an office with about 10 employees all running Outlook 2000. I've read a bit about Exchange server and the hardware it requires and I'm trying to decide if we should get a proper server or just buy a very powerful desktop and have it full of RAM and HDD.

The price jump seems to be huge and I'm not keen on buying stuff we don't need.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

Originally posted by: Keego
bottom line is redundancy. 99.99% uptime.

So they're more stable than a normal PC? Is this cause of the lack of an OS or do they run OSes?

Yes, they use an operating system, like every other computer.

What makes them more stable?

RAID Arrays, Error checking memory, Differnet Operating Systems, built in back-up hardware, etc.

I've read up on ECC RAM and see that it error corrects and that's all good but why don't desktops use it to gain more stability and lessen crashes?

Cause it costs more.

 

[Keego]

10 users? I'd use a regular computer with raided IDE hdd's to make sure you don't lose your data.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
depends on what kind of server you want, a game server you can run on a lame old desktop machine, the same for a file server. It's when you get into corporate level servers, that come on racks, like the kind Sun makes, that you see the real goodies at work.

Cool, ok so say if I needed a server for an office with about 10 employees all running Outlook 2000. I've read a bit about Exchange server and the hardware it requires and I'm trying to decide if we should get a proper server or just buy a very powerful desktop and have it full of RAM and HDD.

The price jump seems to be huge and I'm not keen on buying stuff we don't need.

No offense, but you're not qualified to make decisions like that.

 

[Jimmyjammer]

Originally posted by: her209
A server is a process that runs on a computer that services clients that request it. For example, you can run a web server on your computer.

Now, to make that server respond best, you will need better hardware, e.g., SCSI hard drives, RAID card, exhoribant amt of fast ECC RAM, fast and/or multiple CPU, and high bandwith connection. It all depends on what you intend to use it for.

A ha! So essentially a server is a hybrid PC that is specifically made for letting it run multiple processes and deal with them without crashing. I wonder why they don't use more of the latest CPUs....I mean surely two 3ghz CPUS running together are going to beat two 1.5ghz CPUs running together.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

Originally posted by: her209
A server is a process that runs on a computer that services clients that request it. For example, you can run a web server on your computer.

Now, to make that server respond best, you will need better hardware, e.g., SCSI hard drives, RAID card, exhoribant amt of fast ECC RAM, fast and/or multiple CPU, and high bandwith connection. It all depends on what you intend to use it for.

A ha! So essentially a server is a hybrid PC that is specifically made for letting it run multiple processes and deal with them without crashing. I wonder why they don't use more of the latest CPUs....I mean surely two 3ghz CPUS running together are going to beat two 1.5ghz CPUs running together.

The 1.5ghz CPUs have been out for a while. They've been proven to be stable and problem free. The 3ghz chips are brand new, there could be bugs in them.

 

[Jimmyjammer]

No offense, but you're not qualified to make decisions like that.

None taken but I'm the guy who has to make the call so I'm trying to educated myself. I'm quite au fait with most common computing issues and am aware how most companies will try to upsell anything they try to sell you. So I'm trying to educated myself, already I'll be armed with knowledge if they start rattliing on about ECC RAM requirements etc

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

No offense, but you're not qualified to make decisions like that.

None taken but I'm the guy who has to make the call so I'm trying to educated myself. I'm quite au fait with most common computing issues and am aware how most companies will try to upsell anything they try to sell you. So I'm trying to educated myself, already I'll be armed with knowledge if they start rattliing on about ECC RAM requirements etc

Wat's yur budget???

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

Originally posted by: jsbush
Scsi hard drives, different powersupplies. ECC memory, there are so many different things that justify the price difference.

So, scsi drives I can understand, but are EIDE drives still *way* behind in terms of speed or have they nearly caught up to scsi speed? I remember a friend saying they're nearly equal, but he's not the most reliable source.

ECC memory, not sure what that is, will research.

How about an OS? When you turn on a server what do you 'see'? Most don't seem to come with a monitor. These questions all no doubt seem stupid but I've no idea and need to learn!

Cheers guys!

EIDE doesn't have reliability and data integrity built into the controller like even the least scsi controller do. and when you're running a disk intensive operation (like this forum) a raid card with a bunch of ram helps a lot

ECC memory has better data integrity, but it slightly slower and usually more expensive, which is why it isn't on personal computers.

most are going to be running a server verions of windows (which is more expensive than a desktop version) or a version of unix (which usually costs more to support than windows since not everyone on the planet uses it, though sometimes the software itself is less expensive or free)

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

No offense, but you're not qualified to make decisions like that.

None taken but I'm the guy who has to make the call so I'm trying to educated myself. I'm quite au fait with most common computing issues and am aware how most companies will try to upsell anything they try to sell you. So I'm trying to educated myself, already I'll be armed with knowledge if they start rattliing on about ECC RAM requirements etc

Well, for 10 users, jsut about any machine will do. You could run a pentium 2 300mhz w/ 128mb of ram w/ a big harddrive and be fine for 10 people. Just make sure you keep backups of everyone's mail.

 

[Jimmyjammer]

Wat's yur budget???

Well this is a sticky issue and it's why I'm trying to learn as much as possible. Basically if I said to the bosses that we need to spend 10K on this they'll moan and groan but will pay up. However, I'm not just an 'employee' here and actually do care about the money being spent so I'm trying to whittle down the options so we don't buy something much more powerful than we need.

I'm of the opinion that a souped-up desktop PC will do the trick but it's very interesting learning about the differences in architecture of a server Vs a desktop.

 

[bmacd]

This is a very informative thread. I've learned a lot more than i knew ten minutes ago

-=bmacd=-

 

[notfred]

However, I'm not just an 'employee' here and actually do care about the money being spent

Forgive me if I'm wroing,but this is what I'm picturing:

You're about 17 years old, either your mother or your father runs a small business, with about 10 employees. They have no IT staff, and since you are interested in computers, your parents asked you to help them decide on an email server for thier business?

 

[Jimmyjammer]

EIDE doesn't have reliability and data integrity built into the controller like even the least scsi controller do. and when you're running a disk intensive operation (like this forum) a raid card with a bunch of ram helps a lot

ECC memory has better data integrity, but it slightly slower and usually more expensive, which is why it isn't on personal computers.

most are going to be running a server verions of windows (which is more expensive than a desktop version) or a version of unix (which usually costs more to support than windows since not everyone on the planet uses it, though sometimes the software itself is less expensive or free)

Thanks for all the answers guys, I'm finally learning about RAID arrays (seen them mentioned here a few times but always ignored it).
So the general consensus seems to be a decent desktop will do the trick, but backing up is of high importance. I've already implemented a backup routine for the office so that should be no trouble to expand.

Thanks for the quick and informative replies, great place to learn new things.

 

[Keego]

Originally posted by: notfred

However, I'm not just an 'employee' here and actually do care about the money being spent

Forgive me if I'm wroing,but this is what I'm picturing:

You're about 17 years old, either your mother or your father runs a small business, with about 10 employees. They have no IT staff, and since you are interested in computers, your parents asked you to help them decide on an email server for thier business?

does it matter how he learns?

I bet he would have gotten better help in General Hardware. Oh well!

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

No offense, but you're not qualified to make decisions like that.

None taken but I'm the guy who has to make the call so I'm trying to educated myself. I'm quite au fait with most common computing issues and am aware how most companies will try to upsell anything they try to sell you. So I'm trying to educated myself, already I'll be armed with knowledge if they start rattliing on about ECC RAM requirements etc

Well, for 10 users, jsut about any machine will do. You could run a pentium 2 300mhz w/ 128mb of ram w/ a big harddrive and be fine for 10 people. Just make sure you keep backups of everyone's mail.

Yup, 10 users just getting e-mail takes almost no power.. RAID some 10-20gig IDE drives and the above system would work fine.

Edit: Consider Microsoft Small Business Server as the OS too.

Also, if you people actually visited Anandtech's front page.. (yes, they do have a website too!) you'd learn alot of this stuff on your own