What?! Madrid attacks weren't by the big, bad, omnipresent Al Qaeda???

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: chcarnage

ntdz you forgot that CanOWorms is a specialist in Spanish secret services. He's also a specialist for the far right in the EU. Too bad he won't answer that topic anymore and prefers to throw in some short and smug remarks elsewhere.

CanOWorms: Why do you believe the statements from the secret service in this article when in your opinion they pulled the strings in the attacks?
Why did the secret service order or tolerate the attacks? Because they wanted genocide in Europe, or do you have something more creative for us?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm always willing to talk about the far-right in Europe and the future genocide they have planned. I believe that the Spanish bombing is linked to it. European forces have their hands in many sketchy activities ranging from genocide in Rwanda, starvation in Niger, the kidnapping of French journalists in Iraq (so conveniently timed!), etc.

 

[chcarnage]

Don't be so naive. (See? I can "discuss" too.)

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
Don't be so naive. (See? I can "discuss" too.)

I think that you should reflect over that comment on your own mentality. You consistently deny the growth and spread of the far-right and their ideals.

 

[jlmadyson]

These are the people responsible for Tanzania, Kenya, USS Cole, Bali, Amman, 9/11, ect, ect. Just because they are not the group behind the Madrid attacks means fundamentally, not much. Furthermore, the idea that we should turn our focus away from Al Qaeda in any sense is about as flawed an argument as it gets. Yes, let?s put a big kick me sign on our backs and let them have at it. Al Qaeda is not a figment of imagination. They are real, and they are very much a relentless and formidable enemy. They will hit again, it is just a matter of time, and as a matter of fact they claimed responsibility just last week for an attack on a major oil pipeline in Saudi Arabia. They are fundamentalist, and as it were they would kill you and yours without blinking an eye due to those believes. Consequently, I seriously doubt you would find too many intelligence analysts and field officers within Langley that would agree with an utterly ridiculous notion of ?stop focusing? on Al Qaeda. Nevertheless, this does not mean however that we should not focus on other fundamentalist organizations either. Playing pacifist with Al Qaeda is a non option, period.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
These are the people responsible for Tanzania, Kenya, USS Cole, Bali, Amman, 9/11, ect, ect. Just because they are not the group behind the Madrid attacks means fundamentally, not much. Furthermore, the idea that we should turn our focus away from Al Qaeda in any sense is about flawed an argument as it gets. Yes, let?s put a big kick me sign on our backs and let them have at it. Al Qaeda is not a figment of imagination. They are real, and they are very much a relentless and formidable enemy. They will hit again, it is just a matter of time, and as a matter of fact they claimed responsibility just last week for an attack on a major oil pipeline in Saudi Arabia. They are fundamentalist, and as it were they would kill you and yours without blinking an eye due to those believes. Consequently, I seriously doubt you would find too many intelligence analysts and field officers within Langley that would agree with an utterly ridiculous notion of ?stop focusing? on Al Qaeda. Nevertheless, this does not mean however that we should not focus on other fundamentalist organizations either. Playing pacifist with Al Qaeda is a non option, period.

Boo!

:roll:

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
These are the people responsible for Tanzania, Kenya, USS Cole, Bali, Amman, 9/11, ect, ect. Just because they are not the group behind the Madrid attacks means fundamentally, not much. Furthermore, the idea that we should turn our focus away from Al Qaeda in any sense is about flawed an argument as it gets. Yes, let?s put a big kick me sign on our backs and let them have at it. Al Qaeda is not a figment of imagination. They are real, and they are very much a relentless and formidable enemy. They will hit again, it is just a matter of time, and as a matter of fact they claimed responsibility just last week for an attack on a major oil pipeline in Saudi Arabia. They are fundamentalist, and as it were they would kill you and yours without blinking an eye due to those believes. Consequently, I seriously doubt you would find too many intelligence analysts and field officers within Langley that would agree with an utterly ridiculous notion of ?stop focusing? on Al Qaeda. Nevertheless, this does not mean however that we should not focus on other fundamentalist organizations either. Playing pacifist with Al Qaeda is a non option, period.

Boo!

:roll:

Is that the total and complete rebuttal? Where is that thoughtful, reasoned analysis now? "Put up or shut up, blind sheep, betrayal of your responsibility as an American citizen", ring any bells?

It should.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
These are the people responsible for Tanzania, Kenya, USS Cole, Bali, Amman, 9/11, ect, ect.

Actually I don't think they ever did connect al-Qaeda to Bali either

The organisation immediately suspected of responsibility for the bombing was Jemaah Islamiyah, an Islamist group linked in many news reports to the al-Qaeda network. The Indonesian chief of police, General Da'i Bachtiar said that the bombing was the "worst act of terror in Indonesia's history". Other Indonesian ministers stated their belief that the blasts were related to al-Qaeda.

2002 Bali bombing

The documentry I watched on the History Channel about Bali said there was probably no connection

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
These are the people responsible for Tanzania, Kenya, USS Cole, Bali, Amman, 9/11, ect, ect.

Actually I don't think they ever did connect al-Qaeda to Bali either

The organisation immediately suspected of responsibility for the bombing was Jemaah Islamiyah, an Islamist group linked in many news reports to the al-Qaeda network. The Indonesian chief of police, General Da'i Bachtiar said that the bombing was the "worst act of terror in Indonesia's history". Other Indonesian ministers stated their belief that the blasts were related to al-Qaeda.

2002 Bali bombing

The documentry I watched on the History Channel about Bali said there was probably no connection

The other part of that wiki discussion;

Aris Munandar (aka Sheik Aris) is a JI associate linked to Bashir. He is believed to have assisted the Bali bomber Amrozi in acquiring some of the explosives used in the Bali bombings. Philippine intelligence considers Munandar to be associated with Mohammad Abdullah Sughayer, a Saudi national suspected of financing the al-Qaeda affiliated Abu Sayyaf Group in southern Philippines. Munandar is still at large.

Indonesian authorities also believe more suspects remain at large. In 2005, Indonesian police arrested 24 additional people suspected of involvement in the Bali attacks and a 2003 bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Jakarta. Some were believed to have been making preparations to leave for the Philippines.

Nonetheless, you maybe correct about that, but that doesn't take away nor justify the acts I outlined, as well others that they are fully responsible for.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: conjur
The fact you had to ask that question speaks volumes to your ignorance. Thanks for playing.

OH sorry I forget everytime someone disagrees/questions you they are a fvcking idiot. Why don't you say it really fvcking slow so I might understand?

Why does your signature refer to the leader of a "farce"? Is it because we haven't found bin laden, that means AQ is a farce?

I dont know why im wasting my time with you, but you forget that intel tied bin Laden to 9/11 and he said that he and his group did it. Fact is, neocons give al-Qaida too much credit--they want to scare you. Much like the boogey man, neocons want you to believe that al-Qaida is everywhere, waiting to "pounce" on you and your family. Let me ask you this: Are all the insurgents in Iraq tied to al-Qaida? If you even have to think about the answer, turn off Faux News, and go OUTSIDE!

You're wasting your time with me because your blabbing on like some smug liberal know it all when you really aren't saying anything. I'm reasonable enough to understand what AQ is and is not, unlike the OP whose only desire is to drive an agenda.

To answer your question, no all the insurgents in Iraq are not tied to al-Qaida. Probably a small minority are. I don't even get fauxnews on my cheap ass basic cable package.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Ever heard of a guy named Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, the same guy that swore allegence to Bin Laden? Are all of them tied? No, but some are, and most of the worst ones are.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!

Oh, man, ntdz...thanks for that one! :laugh: :laugh:



Zarqawi...a man for the ages.

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/11/20/zarqawis-dead-again-3rd-times-a-charm-eh/

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Nonetheless, you maybe correct about that, but that doesn't take away nor justify the acts I outlined, as well others that they are fully responsible for.

I'm trying to find which acts al-Qaeda is fully responsible for, I guess that would be those that they admit too eh? It does not make sense for them not to admit it as that is their whole purpose ?

Note: al-Qaeda does not take credit for most of the following actions, resulting in ambiguity over how many attacks the group has actually conducted. Following the U.S. declaration of the War on Terrorism in 2001, the U.S. government has striven to highlight any connections between other terrorist groups and al-Qaeda. Some prefer to attribute to al-Qaedaism actions that might not be directly planned by al-Qaeda as a military headquarter, but which are inspired by its tenets and strategies.

Incidents attributed by some to al-Qaeda

Which ones have they admitted too? And by admitted, I guess that means one of them tapes eh?

 

[sumyungai]

Wait wait wait, you are telling me that Osama isn't the root cause of all the terrorism? That means that hunting down Osama in Afghanistan, finding and killing him won't solve our problems? But but but, how come some 'people' say we should have put more troops in Afghanistan to hunt down Osama? I don't get it, if terrorism is more than just Al qaeda, then what? What could be the reason why they are doing all of this? Oh thats right, they chop off heads, they riot, they bomb all countries around the world because the US is nosy.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ntdz
Ever heard of a guy named Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, the same guy that swore allegence to Bin Laden? Are all of them tied? No, but some are, and most of the worst ones are.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!

Oh, man, ntdz...thanks for that one! :laugh: :laugh:



Zarqawi...a man for the ages.

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/11/20/zarqawis-dead-again-3rd-times-a-charm-eh/

What exactly is funny? I never claimed he was dead.

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Nonetheless, you maybe correct about that, but that doesn't take away nor justify the acts I outlined, as well others that they are fully responsible for.

I'm trying to find which acts al-Qaeda is fully responsible for, I guess that would be those that they admit too eh? It does not make sense for them not to admit it as that is their whole purpose ?

Note: al-Qaeda does not take credit for most of the following actions, resulting in ambiguity over how many attacks the group has actually conducted. Following the U.S. declaration of the War on Terrorism in 2001, the U.S. government has striven to highlight any connections between other terrorist groups and al-Qaeda. Some prefer to attribute to al-Qaedaism actions that might not be directly planned by al-Qaeda as a military headquarter, but which are inspired by its tenets and strategies.

Incidents attributed by some to al-Qaeda

Which ones have they admitted too? And by admitted, I guess that means one of them tapes eh?

Let's see I'm currently reading Jawbreaker, the author, is the guy on the ground for the CIA in Tanzania and Kenya investigations and he makes it pretty clear that they are responsible for those. Amman was claimed by them, the Cole admitted to or not they did it and 9/11, well there are the conspiracy theories but otherwise the 9/11 commission makes it pretty clear.

Doesn't matter to me if they have admitted to them or not. The attacks I pointed out for the most part most part the evidence points to them, and no I'm not going to try to make excuses for them either, admitted to or not.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ntdz
Ever heard of a guy named Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, the same guy that swore allegence to Bin Laden? Are all of them tied? No, but some are, and most of the worst ones are.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!

Oh, man, ntdz...thanks for that one! :laugh: :laugh:



Zarqawi...a man for the ages.

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/11/20/zarqawis-dead-again-3rd-times-a-charm-eh/

What exactly is funny? I never claimed he was dead.

The leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq? Swore allegiance to bin Laden?


Damn, son, you are one gullible sob!!


:laugh:

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ntdz
Ever heard of a guy named Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, the same guy that swore allegence to Bin Laden? Are all of them tied? No, but some are, and most of the worst ones are.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!

Oh, man, ntdz...thanks for that one! :laugh: :laugh:



Zarqawi...a man for the ages.

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/11/20/zarqawis-dead-again-3rd-times-a-charm-eh/

What exactly is funny? I never claimed he was dead.

The leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq? Swore allegiance to bin Laden?


Damn, son, you are one gullible sob!!


:laugh:

What the hell are you talking about? Are you on crack? He released a statement saying as such. You have evidence to prove otherwise?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: sumyungai
Wait wait wait, you are telling me that Osama isn't the root cause of all the terrorism?

Well no? that's just crazy talk, there is hundreds of terrorist orgs and thousands of reasons for them

That means that hunting down Osama in Afghanistan, finding and killing him won't solve our problems?

No it won't, just revenge for 9/11

But but but, how come some 'people' say we should have put more troops in Afghanistan to hunt down Osama?

To get the man responsible for 9/11?


I don't get it, if terrorism is more than just Al qaeda, then what?

That's the billion dollar question, I guess that's why palehorse says it's going to be a 200 year war


What could be the reason why they are doing all of this?
Oh thats right, they chop off heads, they riot, they bomb all countries around the world because the US is nosy.

Chop off heads? you mean Nick Berg? That whole thing is one strange puppy. I guess if al-Zarqawi is Al-Qaida and he did it , then yes

riot? I don't think terrorists generally do any rioting

because the U.S. is nosy?

Haha I can't believe I spent 15 minutes typing out a response but I had a good laugh

 

[conjur]

You have evidence that Zarqawi is alive and that he released that statement?


kthxbye

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
These are the people responsible for Tanzania, Kenya, USS Cole, Bali, Amman, 9/11, ect, ect. Just because they are not the group behind the Madrid attacks means fundamentally, not much. Furthermore, the idea that we should turn our focus away from Al Qaeda in any sense is about flawed an argument as it gets. Yes, let?s put a big kick me sign on our backs and let them have at it. Al Qaeda is not a figment of imagination. They are real, and they are very much a relentless and formidable enemy. They will hit again, it is just a matter of time, and as a matter of fact they claimed responsibility just last week for an attack on a major oil pipeline in Saudi Arabia. They are fundamentalist, and as it were they would kill you and yours without blinking an eye due to those believes. Consequently, I seriously doubt you would find too many intelligence analysts and field officers within Langley that would agree with an utterly ridiculous notion of ?stop focusing? on Al Qaeda. Nevertheless, this does not mean however that we should not focus on other fundamentalist organizations either. Playing pacifist with Al Qaeda is a non option, period.

Boo!

:roll:

Is that the total and complete rebuttal? Where is that thoughtful, reasoned analysis now? "Put up or shut up, blind sheep, betrayal of your responsibility as an American citizen", ring any bells?

It should.

Po' baby. Did I hurt your feelings? Did I challenge you to think? The difference is I have on many occasions explained why I think the al Qaeda propaganda is way overblown, more a boogeyman to keep people like you cowering in line and voting Republican than a real, major threat to America. I have supported my views and defended them when challenged. You, on the other hand, have openly admitted you know squat about "PATRIOT" but support it just because Bush told you it is good. You've made zero effort to support your views. You've sacrificed your reasoning abilities for blind faith in the snake oil salesman who claims he can protect you from the boogeyman. It makes just as much sense for you to buy my magic, tiger-repelling rock. It must work because I've never been attacked by a tiger.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: conjur
You have evidence that Zarqawi is alive and that he released that statement?


kthxbye

What would make you believe otherwise? Those are the accepted facts, not that he's dead and didn't release that statement. Burdon of proof is on you, not me, you're the one making the ridiculous claims.

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: conjur
You have evidence that Zarqawi is alive and that he released that statement?


kthxbye

You mean this statement perhaps;

Hold fast to the rope of God and you shall not be divided." (Qur'an 3:103)

Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of worlds, and let there be no aggression except upon the oppressors; and peace and blessings be upon our beloved Prophet Mohammed, son of Abdullah, and upon all his family and companions.

It should bring great joy to the people of Islam, especially those on the front lines, and it was with good tidings of support during this blessed month that Tawhid wal-Jihad's leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (God protect him) and his followers announced their allegiance to the Sheikh al-Mujahideen of our time, Abu Abdullah Osama bin Laden, God protect him.

God said the following: Hold fast to the rope of God and you shall not be divided.

The order was given to unite the major jihadi organizations with their counterparts in Iraq, and more significantly, the Jamaah Salafiyah united with Tawhid wal-Jihad. Then this [newly unified] blessed group pledged allegiance to mujahid commander Abu Abdullah [Osama bin Laden] (God protect and help him).

This is undoubtedly an indication that victory is approaching, God willing, and that it represents a return to the glorious past. We shall, with great fury, instill fear in the enemies of Islam, who consider that through their war in Iraq they have nearly uprooted Islam from its recent stronghold. For this, we will turn [the war] into a hell for them.

The land of Babylon, as it is called by the Jews and their compatriots in the extreme American right who perpetrate the war, is not the piece of cake expected by the people. Rather, they wish a return to the year 2001, for even though they suffered great losses, there is no doubt that those resulting from the blessed [9/11] attacks are not on the scale of their defeat in Iraq, God willing. They have thrown their weight around in this Muslim land, deciding that it would be the cornerstone in their plan which they named ?the Greater Middle East' in their effort to impose their infidel democracy, transform the peoples of the region and uproot Islam [from it]; however God will shame them and forsake them, grace and praise be unto Him.

[...]

On a memorable, historic day in this holy month, Sunday the third of Ramadan to be specific, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi- the known Islamic leader- pledged allegiance to the mujahid sheikh Osama bin Laden, to hear and obey for better or worse, and to the cause of jihad until all of Islam is in God's service.

The Iraqi mujahideen issued a statement to this effect, reprinted here in its entirety:

Praise be to God who has united the ranks of the mujahideen and disperses the forces of the infidels, and praise be to God who said: "hold fast to the rope of God and you shall not be divided". Blessings and peace be upon he who, through God, united the hearts of believers, and who stood as a bulwark in the face of the enemies of Islam (they are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves), and upon his family and companions, who raised the sword of truth against the propagators of falsehood.

Numerous messages were passed between ?Abu Musab' (God protect him) and the al-Qaeda brotherhood over the past eight months, establishing a dialogue between them. No sooner had the calls been cut off than God chose to restore them, and our most generous brothers in al-Qaeda came to understand the strategy of the Tawhid wal-Jihad organization in Iraq, the land of the two rivers and of the Caliphs, and their hearts warmed to its methods and overall mission.

With the appearance of Ramadan, the month of the gift of victories, Muslims are compelled to join forces and be a stick in the eye of Islam's enemies.

[Let it be known that] al-Tawhid wal-Jihad pledges both its leaders and its soldiers to the mujahid commander, Sheikh "Osama bin Laden" (in word and in deed) and to jihad for the sake of God until there is no more discord [among the ranks of Islam] and all of the religion turns toward God.

For we have heard the words of our Prophet, whom we believe and trust, (let the world not succumb to baseness and depravity), and we have seen the absurdity of today's political leaders. We are waiting in regard to his final promise on succession:

"Prophethood will remain with you for as long as God wills it to remain, then God will raise it up wherever He wills to raise it up. Afterward, there will be a caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood remaining with you for as long as God wills it to remain. Then, He will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Afterward, there will be a reign of violently oppressive rule [unjust Muslim kings] and it will remain as long as God wills it. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule and it will remain for as long as God wills it to remain. Then God will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Finally there will be a caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood."

By God, O sheikh of the mujahideen, if you bid us plunge into the ocean, we would follow you. If you ordered it so, we would obey. If you forbade us something, we would abide by your wishes. For what a fine commander you are to the armies of Islam, against the inveterate infidels and apostates!

Now then, people of Islam, come rally to the flag of the leader of the mujahideen, which we raise together, and let us cry [?there is no God but the one God'], as the flag waves, raised by our newest heroes. Let us cleanse all Muslim lands of every infidel and wicked apostate until Islam enters the home of every city-dweller and nomad.

Thus ends the statement, and it reminds us of the Companions and of the heroes of our great people, for this written message is like those from the history of Islam. It returns us to the time of the Prophet (God bless him and grant him salvation) and his Companions (may God be pleased with them), and so for God's sake, carry on, O people of Jihad, and return to the people of Islam their lost glory, doing that of which previous centuries were incapable.

Text


Whether he is alive or not I'm not really sure is that relevant. Personally, I hope they got the bastard although I believe he is still on the run.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: conjur
You have evidence that Zarqawi is alive and that he released that statement?


kthxbye

What would make you believe otherwise? Those are the accepted facts, not that he's dead and didn't release that statement. Burdon of proof is on you, not me, you're the one making the ridiculous claims.

No, the burden of proof is on you. You are claiming he made that statement. You have to prove it.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Text


Whether he is alive or not I'm not really sure is that relevant. Personally, I hope they got the bastard although I believe he is still on the run.

How is that proof that Zarqawi wrote that statement? He talks of himself in the 3rd person? Interesting.

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: jlmadyson
These are the people responsible for Tanzania, Kenya, USS Cole, Bali, Amman, 9/11, ect, ect. Just because they are not the group behind the Madrid attacks means fundamentally, not much. Furthermore, the idea that we should turn our focus away from Al Qaeda in any sense is about flawed an argument as it gets. Yes, let?s put a big kick me sign on our backs and let them have at it. Al Qaeda is not a figment of imagination. They are real, and they are very much a relentless and formidable enemy. They will hit again, it is just a matter of time, and as a matter of fact they claimed responsibility just last week for an attack on a major oil pipeline in Saudi Arabia. They are fundamentalist, and as it were they would kill you and yours without blinking an eye due to those believes. Consequently, I seriously doubt you would find too many intelligence analysts and field officers within Langley that would agree with an utterly ridiculous notion of ?stop focusing? on Al Qaeda. Nevertheless, this does not mean however that we should not focus on other fundamentalist organizations either. Playing pacifist with Al Qaeda is a non option, period.

Boo!

:roll:

Is that the total and complete rebuttal? Where is that thoughtful, reasoned analysis now? "Put up or shut up, blind sheep, betrayal of your responsibility as an American citizen", ring any bells?

It should.

Po' baby. Did I hurt your feelings? Did I challenge you to think? The difference is I have on many occasions explained why I think the al Qaeda propaganda is way overblown, more a boogeyman to keep people like you cowering in line and voting Republican than a real, major threat to America. I have supported my views and defended them when challenged. You, on the other hand, have openly admitted you know squat about "PATRIOT" but support it just because Bush told you it is good. You've made zero effort to support your views. You've sacrificed your reasoning abilities for blind faith in the snake oil salesman who claims he can protect you from the boogeyman. It makes just as much sense for you to buy my magic, tiger-repelling rock. It must work because I've never been attacked by a tiger.

Ah I see you decided to break out the Po'baby talking points, doesn't require any "thoughtful analysis", but hey whatever floats your boat. Never explained it here either, blind sheep, must be.

 

[shrumpage]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/18/al.zarqawi.statement/index.html

I think this is what he is referring too.