What kind of rich, spoiled police department

[jlee]

You know the funny thing, this is a myth. No one cuts back the budget next year because you didn't spend it this year. It's a retarded mindset I see all too often in the government and military.

Here they cut our budget even when we do use it...so eh.

That's ridiculous for a knife, though.

 

[JDawg1536]

I was also in the AF and remember this well, he is exactly correct, they wanted us to spend money just to spend it, so they didn't get cut back on the next allocation of funds. I'm sure that attitude is not confined to the AF though.

Me too. We had $1.5 mil allocated to about 50 MPs one year. The things we bought were ridiculous.

 

[Meghan54]

You know the funny thing, this is a myth. No one cuts back the budget next year because you didn't spend it this year. It's a retarded mindset I see all too often in the government and military.

Funny thing is, I see people spouting shit like this while never having been in any sort of procurement area in the military.

I do know for a fact that each unit in the military makes a concerted effort to spend their funds every quarter because they're reduced if they're not spent.

I remember one night during basic training our platoon got "loaned" to a permanent party company to assist them in hiding excess equipment they'd bought with their budget....in an attempt not to have it reduced. They'd apparently gone on a buying spree, no big deal. But, an unannounced IG inspection a few weeks later had them scrambling to get their equipment levels down to what their TO&E levels allowed.

So, we dug holes all night, the perm. party S4 grunts brought down boxes, cartons, bundles wrapped in plastic, blankets, almost anything they could grab, and dropped/placed the crap in the holes we'd dug while the sergeant ran around like a chicken without a head....then we filled in the holes.

We got "loaned" back out a few days later and dug all the crap up. The S4 sergeant was finally relaxed as he and his crew apparently passed the inspection and now were recovering their loot, as it was.

It happens, it does happen, and always will happen until the military's mindset about funding and such changes.

 

[FallenHero]

it upsets me when i see BRAND NEW squad cars ALMOST EVERY YEAR, NO JOKE (the expensive SUV's and Chargers), on EVERY CORNER of my little backward ass texas town....

and then i see them giving tickets to kids riding skateboards downtown...

The difference in cost between A crown vic and some of the SUV's our department was looking at is 6 grand fully outfitted. Depending on discounts, the SUV came really close to the price of the crown vic.

Also, you are welcome to drive a 3 year old squad car and tell me how well it runs. The wear and tear on these cars is unreal.

 

[LookBehindYou]

What squadron were you in that you had so much funding?

Our squadron didn't usually have too many funding issues, however we were in space command too so that helped. Everything I bought was needed, it was just that it was way over the top of what we needed. We needed flashlights, it was either mini mags for 5 dollars using cheap AAs or $60 surefires with $10 batteries. Same with the gloves and everything else.

A senior that I worked for always told me to make sure I had quotes, 3 sources, and everything ready to go when money dropped at the end of the fiscal year. Those who were ready to spend, got to spend, those that werent, lost out.

I never lost out on being able to spend money.

 

[MarkXIX]

Funny thing is, I see people spouting shit like this while never having been in any sort of procurement area in the military.

I do know for a fact that each unit in the military makes a concerted effort to spend their funds every quarter because they're reduced if they're not spent.

I remember one night during basic training our platoon got "loaned" to a permanent party company to assist them in hiding excess equipment they'd bought with their budget....in an attempt not to have it reduced. They'd apparently gone on a buying spree, no big deal. But, an unannounced IG inspection a few weeks later had them scrambling to get their equipment levels down to what their TO&E levels allowed.

So, we dug holes all night, the perm. party S4 grunts brought down boxes, cartons, bundles wrapped in plastic, blankets, almost anything they could grab, and dropped/placed the crap in the holes we'd dug while the sergeant ran around like a chicken without a head....then we filled in the holes.

We got "loaned" back out a few days later and dug all the crap up. The S4 sergeant was finally relaxed as he and his crew apparently passed the inspection and now were recovering their loot, as it was.

It happens, it does happen, and always will happen until the military's mindset about funding and such changes.

Okay, let me be clear. I'm a GS-13 in the Army and also the commander of an Army Reserve MP company. I work in and around the Army every single day of my life. The whole funding thing is bullshit, I don't know how to be more clear.

Your example is weak at best. So, because your supply NCO said they HAD to buy a bunch of shit and then hid it from auditors it's true? Let me put it this way, I've almost NEVER seen a time in my 16+ years of service to the Army where someone didn't get the funding they asked for if they needed it. Sure, maybe it didn't happen in the timeline that they wanted at the time, but if they NEEDED it, they got it every time.

Bottom line, the federal budget is going down, especially in the military. We've been told that FY12 we should expect to have 60% of what we had last year. We're not exactly squirreling away a 40% of the money we have now because it doesn't matter, we are losing it anyway come 01OCT11 and we will learn to make due.

PS - The maintenance costs of my area of responsibility for my network, telephone, and land mobile radio system was $2.1 million dollars last year. I think I know something about procurement in the military system. Also, I've been told year after year that there was no budget for my maintenance contracts and every year I've gotten it except one.

 

[BabaBooey]

I would and do carry my S&W swmp4l instead of that over priced blade and pocket the left over $400....:sneaky:

 

[SilentBillyBob]

Okay, let me be clear. I'm a GS-13 in the Army and also the commander of an Army Reserve MP company. I work in and around the Army every single day of my life. The whole funding thing is bullshit, I don't know how to be more clear.

I, too, am currently a GS-13 - under AAFES contract w/ the DoD.
Prior to that, I was Assistant Director of Technology for a Public School District - for 7 years.
Prior to that, I was in the Air Force from the mid 80's through the mid 90's.

The whole funding thing is indeed "bullshit" - but, only because it is true.

In every one of these jobs, I have seen the end fiscal scramble to empty the budget accounts so they would get funded the next year. Every department, every agency, every administration.

The school district was the most telling, as I worked closely with every department and agency. My department benefited greatly as large-chassis routers & switches, computers, projectors, smartboards, and other tech were quick and easy ways to spend large sums of money. However, I still thought the whole process was idiotic and wasteful.

Now, maybe as you say, this doesn't actually exist.
But, in my experience, there have been a whole lot of people, handling a whole lot of money ($2.1M is pocket change, BTW) who believe it to be true, and act accordingly.

BB

 

[Zargon]

it upsets me when i see BRAND NEW squad cars ALMOST EVERY YEAR, NO JOKE (the expensive SUV's and Chargers), on EVERY CORNER of my little backward ass texas town....

and then i see them giving tickets to kids riding skateboards downtown...

its more likely they replace them every 3 to 5.

my dept does I think 4 years, but is on rotation to do half every other year.

so it looks like they replace squads every 2 years, but in reality, its every 4.

by 4 years they are pushing 100k miles and show some wear and tear.

vics also cost about 17k. the chargers with a v8 are about 20k, the trucks are low 20's

 

[MarkXIX]

its more likely they replace them every 3 to 5.

my dept does I think 4 years, but is on rotation to do half every other year.

so it looks like they replace squads every 2 years, but in reality, its every 4.

by 4 years they are pushing 100k miles and show some wear and tear.

vics also cost about 17k. the chargers with a v8 are about 20k, the trucks are low 20's

Police fleet vehicles get pushed HARD every single day. On a slow day, patrolling an Army installation, it was no uncommon to put 100 miles on the car in an 8 hour shift and that's usually happening three times a day, every day. It is not unusual to put 80-100,000 miles on a car in a year depending on the municipality.

 

[MarkXIX]

I, too, am currently a GS-13 - under AAFES contract w/ the DoD.
Prior to that, I was Assistant Director of Technology for a Public School District - for 7 years.
Prior to that, I was in the Air Force from the mid 80's through the mid 90's.

The whole funding thing is indeed "bullshit" - but, only because it is true.

In every one of these jobs, I have seen the end fiscal scramble to empty the budget accounts so they would get funded the next year. Every department, every agency, every administration.

The school district was the most telling, as I worked closely with every department and agency. My department benefited greatly as large-chassis routers & switches, computers, projectors, smartboards, and other tech were quick and easy ways to spend large sums of money. However, I still thought the whole process was idiotic and wasteful.

Now, maybe as you say, this doesn't actually exist.
But, in my experience, there have been a whole lot of people, handling a whole lot of money ($2.1M is pocket change, BTW) who believe it to be true, and act accordingly.

BB

So what you're saying is that you never, not even once, didn't spend all your money to see if in fact you got funding cut the next year? I have and I was still able to get what I needed the next year and the year after that.

I do my damndest to save the taxpayer money, even when I know someone else is going to piss it all away anyway. I don't buy more than I need, ever. If by some chance I do end up with some excess, I re-purpose it by calling my counterparts at other installations, or turning over to "computers for schools" programs that we run in the area.

 

[SilentBillyBob]

So what you're saying is that you never, not even once, didn't spend all your money to see if in fact you got funding cut the next year? I have and I was still able to get what I needed the next year and the year after that.

I don't think I said anything of the sort. I went back and re-read my post, and still don't see anything close to that.

In the USAF, I had no money, and even less authority over funds. However, I had a birds-eye view of how much of it was spent. (Wastefully)

I find the same to be true in my current position. Now, my job is to simply make sure stuff works - I don't have a budget. And I have a poor excuse for an expense account. But, I am still exposed to numerous units and commands - not to mention civilian departments within the DoD.

The one job where I did have purchasing power - and a budget - was the School District. My department was woefully underfunded for what it was tasked with. So, yes - I spent everything I had - every year... long before the fiscal year was done.
Due to this, and in addition to my normal duties, I essentially became a purchasing agent / broker for other departments - to help them fulfill their technology needs.

Now, to elaborate further on what I actually did say:
In my 3 careers in (or around) government service, I have seen literally hundreds of people scrambling to spend funds before the fiscal year ended. They all did so because they were under the impression that if it was not done, they would lose part of their funding the following year.

Now, perhaps that wasn't actual fact. But, most of these people were of above average intelligence - and not wasteful. So, they were not doing this because they were stupid, greedy, or wanton. Also, due to the fact that I knew a great many of these individuals for years, I tend to believe what I was told by them. And all of them told exactly the same story - and that story has remained unchanged across State and Federal Government agencies and programs - and over 25 years.

BB

 

[MarkXIX]

Okay, perhaps I took some liberty with what you said to make my point. My point is, you're still saying that you know people who act this way and have for some time, so it must be fact. I'm stating, it is NOT fact. It is a myth. It is what people are led to believe year after year which is exactly why our federal budget next shrinks even when people have more than they could ever need and then some.

So, again, someone, somewhere will need to show me in federal regulation and/or law where it states "if you don't spend it, you won't get it next year". Until then, it's a myth as I stated and your examples are a great showcase of the fear driven ideology that got our government in the pickle it's in financially.

 

[waggy]

Okay, perhaps I took some liberty with what you said to make my point. My point is, you're still saying that you know people who act this way and have for some time, so it must be fact. I'm stating, it is NOT fact. It is a myth. It is what people are led to believe year after year which is exactly why our federal budget next shrinks even when people have more than they could ever need and then some.

So, again, someone, somewhere will need to show me in federal regulation and/or law where it states "if you don't spend it, you won't get it next year". Until then, it's a myth as I stated and your examples are a great showcase of the fear driven ideology that got our government in the pickle it's in financially.

weird. i read it as from his experience he has seen this action done. Why it was done as he was told if they didn't they lost it. he is not claiming that is fact but experience.

i believe him too. as in he has no reason to lie and all you are doing is saying show me the regulation.

 

[hanoverphist]

i can appreciate a very well made knife. they are rarely cheap, and sometimes not worth the price tag on them. this one is a bit high priced, but it is titanium framed, and i have no idea what that would cost.

my fave everyday knife is my harley knife. since i have misplaced that, i revert to my 7 dollar special ive had for about 4 years now. thing is pretty bulletproof so far, i use it as a screwdriver, a vault key, pry bar, wire cutter and all kinds of other things you really shouldnt do with a knife blade. it makes a great bottle opener as well. i got it at a gun show, cheap ass table on the last day had a 2 for $15 sale. best work knives ive found so far.

 

[SilentBillyBob]

My point is, you're still saying that you know people who act this way and have for some time, so it must be fact. I'm stating, it is NOT fact.

It is a fact that a great many people have acted on this premis for a very long time.

It is what people are led to believe year after year which is exactly why our federal budget next shrinks even when people have more than they could ever need and then some.

Ummm... assuming you meant "grows" or "expands" (but, I don't want to put words in your mouth).
I could agree to that.
Bureaucracy is good for few things. Waste of time, resources and money are the things it does best.

So, again, someone, somewhere will need to show me in federal regulation and/or law where it states "if you don't spend it, you won't get it next year".

I'm not big on reading regulations and the law for entertainment. But when my CFO (at the School District) tells me so - I tend to take that as fact.

...your examples are a great showcase of the fear driven ideology that got our government in the pickle it's in financially.

Along with socialist agendas and pork-barrel politics.
A discussion of the precursors to our country's current financial crisis would be lengthy, messy, and far outside of the scope of this thread.

But, my examples are my experiences that I have personally witnessed in a great number of varied environments for a quarter of a century.

The premise may be myth. But, if everyone, in every facet of government procurement, acts on this myth - then it may as well be fact.

BB

 

[ElFenix]

I was also in the AF and remember this well, he is exactly correct, they wanted us to spend money just to spend it, so they didn't get cut back on the next allocation of funds. I'm sure that attitude is not confined to the AF though.

most bureaucracies are like that

 

[911paramedic]

Spend it or lose it.

Part of our current economic crisis.