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What kind of ratio should I be going for?

KeithTalent

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
My diet is a little erratic. I rarely seem to get the number of calories I need in a day, and when I do, my fat content seems to be much too high.

Taking a look at my averages for this past week (June 27 to July 2)

Calories: 1,875
Carbs: 136g - 40%
Fat: 85g - 25%
Protein: 120g - 35%

My routine is to workout at the gym twice per week. I just do the maximum wait I can for 6 reps and do 4 sets. Day 1 is usually chest/arms/abs/back and Day 2 is legs/shoulders/core. I also run 3 times per week (training for a marathon in October). My upper body is starting get where I want it to be, which is to say lean and relatively muscular, but not huge.

I know I need to start eating more, but I have no idea where to start. I don't like eating unless I fell hungry, so it's a chore to try and stuff extra food down my gullet, and most of the time when I do it ends up being bad, unhealthy crap. Any tips for someone like me? Also, does that 40/25/35 ratio seem decent for what I am doing, or should I be switching that around somehow?

Thanks in advance for the tips. Sorry for the somewhat disjointed post.

KT


 
Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
Uninformed newbie opinion:


Fat content seems fine to me. Are you trying to lose weight or bulk up (get muscle)?

Here's good reads:
http://stronglifts.com/strongl...-fat-getting-stronger/

http://stronglifts.com/20-supe...build-muscle-lose-fat/

http://stronglifts.com/10-food...are-healthy-but-arent/
Click to expand...

Trying to bulk a bit. I'm about 6'1" and around 160lbs last time I checked, which was several weeks ago. Only lifting twice per week though, probably hinders my progress a bit.

I was kind of worried on the fat content, but I guess it's not so bad. I'll take a look at the links, thanks.

According to you guys my ratios are ok as well, just up the protein a bit I suppose. Damn it's hard to maintain all of this stuff.

KT

 
Macro ratios by percentages is a terrible way to set up a diet. Especially when it comes to protein. Protein should be set up based on LBM (or bw to make things easier if you're not a total fat ass), not a percentage of overall calories. Carbohydrates should be set based on personal preferences and activity levels, not a percentage of overall calories.

The important things when dieting is there being a slight calorie deficit, at least 1g of protein per pound of LBM (or bw), and get your EFA's in the form of fish oils. Beyond that the ratio between fat and carbs is not going to make much of a difference when it comes to body composition (with the exception of people with very low bodyfat trying to get even lower). Any changes to the ratio of fats to carbs should be set based on personal preference. Some people do very well on low carbs, some don't. Some need a lot of carbs for a lot of aerobic activity, some are pure strength athletes that don't need much.

So just worry about getting enough protein, the right amount of calories, and your EFA's. Anything beyond that is very individual. For example, I hate low-carb diets because I love carbs. So I usually set fat around 20-25% of my total calories and carbs is usually just to fill up all the rest of my calories after protein and fat is taken care of. If you're following a lower carb diet, you could do the opposite. Set carb intake and then use fat to fill the rest of the calories. Protein should pretty much stay static. I only adjust protein up as my calories go down to prevent LBM loss.

Anyway, what are your stats?
 
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat is a good ratio.
Click to expand...

This is a perfect example of why percentages should not be used. I'm cutting right now and using 30% for protein that would give me 176g of protein. Which would be BELOW 1g per pound of LBM, and WAY below what I am actually consuming right now (around 240g).

What if we were talking about an endurance athlete who may have a maintenance as high as 18 cal/lb? They would end up having way more protein than necessary and likely too few carbs.

Don't set up diets by percentages, it's retarded.
 
Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat is a good ratio.
Click to expand...

This is a perfect example of why percentages should not be used. I'm cutting right now and using 30% for protein that would give me 176g of protein. Which would be BELOW 1g per pound of LBM, and WAY below what I am actually consuming right now (around 240g).

What if we were talking about an endurance athlete who may have a maintenance as high as 18 cal/lb? They would end up having way more protein than necessary and likely too few carbs.

Don't set up diets by percentages, it's retarded.
Click to expand...

While maintaining a high protein level is fine, there's really no need for it. I probably intake less than 150 grams a day (I'm 200 lbs., 170lbs. LBM) and I haven't lost an ounce of lean body mass since I've been cutting (8 months so far). So I don't believe you need massive protein intake to maintain muscle mass. Dr. Barry Sears (creator of the Zone diet) recommends .7 grams protein per pound of LBM for moderately active individuals (exercise 3 times a week) and I tend to think that's probably more accurate. Just some musings of mine to make everyone think a bit.
 
Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Macro ratios by percentages is a terrible way to set up a diet. Especially when it comes to protein. Protein should be set up based on LBM (or bw to make things easier if you're not a total fat ass), not a percentage of overall calories. Carbohydrates should be set based on personal preferences and activity levels, not a percentage of overall calories.

The important things when dieting is there being a slight calorie deficit, at least 1g of protein per pound of LBM (or bw), and get your EFA's in the form of fish oils. Beyond that the ratio between fat and carbs is not going to make much of a difference when it comes to body composition (with the exception of people with very low bodyfat trying to get even lower). Any changes to the ratio of fats to carbs should be set based on personal preference. Some people do very well on low carbs, some don't. Some need a lot of carbs for a lot of aerobic activity, some are pure strength athletes that don't need much.

So just worry about getting enough protein, the right amount of calories, and your EFA's. Anything beyond that is very individual. For example, I hate low-carb diets because I love carbs. So I usually set fat around 20-25% of my total calories and carbs is usually just to fill up all the rest of my calories after protein and fat is taken care of. If you're following a lower carb diet, you could do the opposite. Set carb intake and then use fat to fill the rest of the calories. Protein should pretty much stay static. I only adjust protein up as my calories go down to prevent LBM loss.

Anyway, what are your stats?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Some diets also have you set fat intake based on LBM - 0.5g fat/lb. LBM.
 
Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Macro ratios by percentages is a terrible way to set up a diet. Especially when it comes to protein. Protein should be set up based on LBM (or bw to make things easier if you're not a total fat ass), not a percentage of overall calories. Carbohydrates should be set based on personal preferences and activity levels, not a percentage of overall calories.

The important things when dieting is there being a slight calorie deficit, at least 1g of protein per pound of LBM (or bw), and get your EFA's in the form of fish oils. Beyond that the ratio between fat and carbs is not going to make much of a difference when it comes to body composition (with the exception of people with very low bodyfat trying to get even lower). Any changes to the ratio of fats to carbs should be set based on personal preference. Some people do very well on low carbs, some don't. Some need a lot of carbs for a lot of aerobic activity, some are pure strength athletes that don't need much.

So just worry about getting enough protein, the right amount of calories, and your EFA's. Anything beyond that is very individual. For example, I hate low-carb diets because I love carbs. So I usually set fat around 20-25% of my total calories and carbs is usually just to fill up all the rest of my calories after protein and fat is taken care of. If you're following a lower carb diet, you could do the opposite. Set carb intake and then use fat to fill the rest of the calories. Protein should pretty much stay static. I only adjust protein up as my calories go down to prevent LBM loss.

Anyway, what are your stats?
Click to expand...

That all sounds pretty good and makes sense. I run quite a bit, but I don't feel I need a tonne of carbs to keep me going. I'm not specifically trying to go low-carb, but given the choice between a high protein low/no carb meal and a carb-laden one, I'll go with the low/no carb one.

Not sure exactly what stats you are looking for, but I'm 6'1" and 162lbs (weighed myself yesterday). I think most everything else relevant is in the OP.

Thanks.

KT

Edit: How do I figure out my LBM?

 
LBM is lean body mass.

Find your body fat percentage with calipers. Then subtract weight of the fat from your total weight, and you have LBM.

Example: let's say you're 15% body fat.
15% of 162 lb is 162/100*15=24.3 lb of fat.

162 lb - 24.3 = 137.7 lb

So if your body fat is 15%, and you weigh 162 lb, your lean body mass is 138 lb.

 
Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
LBM is lean body mass.

Find your body fat percentage with calipers. Then subtract weight of the fat from your total weight, and you have LBM.

Example: let's say you're 15% body fat.
15% of 162 lb is 162/100*15=24.3 lb of fat.

162 lb - 24.3 = 137.7 lb

So if your body fat is 15%, and you weigh 162 lb, your lean body mass is 138 lb.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks. Now to try and find some calipers...

KT
 
Taken out of context from Is a calorie just a calorie?:

1. A sufficient protein intake will always beat out an insufficient protein intake, no matter what you do. Since all of the diets described in this book are based around sufficient protein, this is a non-issue.
2. Assuming caloric intake can be controlled (and protein is adequate of course), shuffling of carbs and fats tends to have a minor, approaching negligble effect.
Click to expand...

Also good reading:

Percentages Part 1
Percentages Part 2

I think basically your body is pretty good at handling whatever is thrown at it, assuming moderation & sufficient protein intake. The main thing is the calories.
 
Originally posted by: yelo333
Taken out of context from Is a calorie just a calorie?:

1. A sufficient protein intake will always beat out an insufficient protein intake, no matter what you do. Since all of the diets described in this book are based around sufficient protein, this is a non-issue.
2. Assuming caloric intake can be controlled (and protein is adequate of course), shuffling of carbs and fats tends to have a minor, approaching negligble effect.
Click to expand...

Also good reading:

Percentages Part 1
Percentages Part 2

I think basically your body is pretty good at handling whatever is thrown at it, assuming moderation & sufficient protein intake. The main thing is the calories.
Click to expand...

Pretty interesting reading, thanks. Now I need to work on upping the calories, which has definitely been an issue. I just ate dinner and I'm full, but I'm only at around 900 calories for the day. Time for a meal plan I think.

KT
 
While maintaining a high protein level is fine, there's really no need for it. I probably intake less than 150 grams a day (I'm 200 lbs., 170lbs. LBM) and I haven't lost an ounce of lean body mass since I've been cutting (8 months so far). So I don't believe you need massive protein intake to maintain muscle mass. Dr. Barry Sears (creator of the Zone diet) recommends .7 grams protein per pound of LBM for moderately active individuals (exercise 3 times a week) and I tend to think that's probably more accurate. Just some musings of mine to make everyone think a bit.
Click to expand...

At what bodyfat %? The lower, the more LBM loss becomes an issue. Also, everybody is different. However, as you said, there is nothing wrong with a high protein intake. Which is why my recommendation is usually on the higher-end to be on the safer side of things. As long as it's not getting in the way of getting other nutrients it isn't doing any harm and if anything, will actually help you.

Some diets also have you set fat intake based on LBM - 0.5g fat/lb. LBM.
Click to expand...

Which is fine as well. Like I said, it's not going to matter much in the end what the ratio between carbs and fats is.

Edit: How do I figure out my LBM?
Click to expand...

Don't even worry about it. You're 6'1" and 162 pounds. Just base protein goals on your bodyweight. I only recommend fat people to base protein requirements on LBM, as it would be unrealistic and unecessary to have a 300 pound guy get at least that much protein in grams a day.
 
Originally posted by: KoolDrew
While maintaining a high protein level is fine, there's really no need for it. I probably intake less than 150 grams a day (I'm 200 lbs., 170lbs. LBM) and I haven't lost an ounce of lean body mass since I've been cutting (8 months so far). So I don't believe you need massive protein intake to maintain muscle mass. Dr. Barry Sears (creator of the Zone diet) recommends .7 grams protein per pound of LBM for moderately active individuals (exercise 3 times a week) and I tend to think that's probably more accurate. Just some musings of mine to make everyone think a bit.
Click to expand...

At what bodyfat %? The lower, the more LBM loss becomes an issue. Also, everybody is different. However, as you said, there is nothing wrong with a high protein intake. Which is why my recommendation is usually on the higher-end to be on the safer side of things. As long as it's not getting in the way of getting other nutrients it isn't doing any harm and if anything, will actually help you.

Some diets also have you set fat intake based on LBM - 0.5g fat/lb. LBM.
Click to expand...

Which is fine as well. Like I said, it's not going to matter much in the end what the ratio between carbs and fats is.

Edit: How do I figure out my LBM?
Click to expand...

Don't even worry about it. You're 6'1" and 162 pounds. Just base protein goals on your bodyweight. I only recommend fat people to base protein requirements on LBM, as it would be unrealistic and unecessary to have a 300 pound guy get at least that much protein in grams a day.
Click to expand...

Ok good. I had no idea where to find calipers anyway.

My protein intake is good I think , I just need to up my overall caloric intake. Starting to work on that today.

Cheers,
KT
 
Originally posted by: KoolDrew

Which is fine as well. Like I said, it's not going to matter much in the end what the ratio between carbs and fats is.
Click to expand...

The ratio is not important, but from what I have read, the absolute amount of healthy fats you consume is important for maintaining hormone levels, especially on a cut.
 
The ratio varies depending on your needs. A man who does primarily strength exercise with little to no cardio would beneift most from a 40 carb/30 fat/30 protein ratio. A man who does a lot of cardio (endurance athlete) needs a 60 carb/20 fat/20 protein ratio for peak performance. So, since you do mostly some strength exercise and are training for a marathon(!!!), I would follow the the 60/20/20 plan. You need to eat enough of the right calories to keep you running or you will bonk! Been there, done that.

I have a hard time getting all my calories sometimes. I eat 100% whole grain unrefined products, so the volume of food I have to eat is enormous and can be a burden some days. But it's all part of the game, you have to pay to play or so they say.
 
Originally posted by: Megatomic
The ratio varies depending on your needs. A man who does primarily strength exercise with little to no cardio would beneift most from a 40 carb/30 fat/30 protein ratio. A man who does a lot of cardio (endurance athlete) needs a 60 carb/20 fat/20 protein ratio for peak performance. So, since you do mostly some strength exercise and are training for a marathon(!!!), I would follow the the 60/20/20 plan. You need to eat enough of the right calories to keep you running or you will bonk! Been there, done that.

I have a hard time getting all my calories sometimes. I eat 100% whole grain unrefined products, so the volume of food I have to eat is enormous and can be a burden some days. But it's all part of the game, you have to pay to play or so they say.
Click to expand...

Eating that many carbs is tough for me sometimes, without dipping into the unhealthy stuff. I'm working on it, but my work schedule is often prohibitive to a good diet.

You're right, once I get into the longer runs I'll definitely have to ramp up my carb intake. That's going to start in about a week, so we'll see how it goes.

KT
 
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