What ISIS Really Wants

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
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What ISIS Really Wants
Article by the Atlantic that everyone interested in learning more about ISIS should read. It clearly outlines why the ideology is the root cause, and not poverty/lack of education/skin color/government/[insert variable here] etc. Bombing does nothing when the ideology will just as quickly replace them. Outside of death and physically taking land from the caliphate, there is nothing we can do will appease them so the only way for peace is to change the ideology. In my opinion, this will mean muslim leaders of a new and legitimate, peaceful caliphate rewording and/or reinterpreting the text to be more peaceful to take away their rallying catalyst.

Some snippets:
In the past, Westerners who accused Muslims of blindly following ancient scriptures came to deserved grief from academics—notably the late Edward Said—who pointed out that calling Muslims “ancient” was usually just another way to denigrate them. Look instead, these scholars urged, to the conditions in which these ideologies arose—the bad governance, the shifting social mores, the humiliation of living in lands valued only for their oil.

Without acknowledgment of these factors, no explanation of the rise of the Islamic State could be complete. But focusing on them to the exclusion of ideology reflects another kind of Western bias: that if religious ideology doesn’t matter much in Washington or Berlin, surely it must be equally irrelevant in Raqqa or Mosul. When a masked executioner says Allahu akbar while beheading an apostate, sometimes he’s doing so for religious reasons.

Many mainstream Muslim organizations have gone so far as to say the Islamic State is, in fact, un-Islamic. It is, of course, reassuring to know that the vast majority of Muslims have zero interest in replacing Hollywood movies with public executions as evening entertainment. But Muslims who call the Islamic State un-Islamic are typically, as the Princeton scholar Bernard Haykel, the leading expert on the group’s theology, told me, “embarrassed and politically correct, with a cotton-candy view of their own religion” that neglects “what their religion has historically and legally required.” Many denials of the Islamic State’s religious nature, he said, are rooted in an “interfaith-Christian-nonsense tradition.”

Every academic I asked about the Islamic State’s ideology sent me to Haykel. Of partial Lebanese descent, Haykel grew up in Lebanon and the United States, and when he talks through his Mephistophelian goatee, there is a hint of an unplaceable foreign accent.

According to Haykel, the ranks of the Islamic State are deeply infused with religious vigor. Koranic quotations are ubiquitous. “Even the foot soldiers spout this stuff constantly,” Haykel said. “They mug for their cameras and repeat their basic doctrines in formulaic fashion, and they do it all the time.” He regards the claim that the Islamic State has distorted the texts of Islam as preposterous, sustainable only through willful ignorance. “People want to absolve Islam,” he said. “It’s this ‘Islam is a religion of peace’ mantra. As if there is such a thing as ‘Islam’! It’s what Muslims do, and how they interpret their texts.” Those texts are shared by all Sunni Muslims, not just the Islamic State. “And these guys have just as much legitimacy as anyone else.”

All Muslims acknowledge that Muhammad’s earliest conquests were not tidy affairs, and that the laws of war passed down in the Koran and in the narrations of the Prophet’s rule were calibrated to fit a turbulent and violent time. In Haykel’s estimation, the fighters of the Islamic State are authentic throwbacks to early Islam and are faithfully reproducing its norms of war.
This behavior includes a number of practices that modern Muslims tend to prefer not to acknowledge as integral to their sacred texts. “Slavery, crucifixion, and beheadings are not something that freakish [jihadists] are cherry-picking from the medieval tradition,” Haykel said. Islamic State fighters “are smack in the middle of the medieval tradition and are bringing it wholesale into the present day.”
...
Leaders of the Islamic State have taken emulation of Muhammad as strict duty, and have revived traditions that have been dormant for hundreds of years. “What’s striking about them is not just the literalism, but also the seriousness with which they read these texts,” Haykel said. “There is an assiduous, obsessive seriousness that Muslims don’t normally have.”
...
The caliphate, Cerantonio told me, is not just a political entity but also a vehicle for salvation. Islamic State propaganda regularly reports the pledges of baya’a (allegiance) rolling in from jihadist groups across the Muslim world. Cerantonio quoted a Prophetic saying, that to die without pledging allegiance is to die jahil (ignorant) and therefore die a “death of disbelief.” Consider how Muslims (or, for that matter, Christians) imagine God deals with the souls of people who die without learning about the one true religion. They are neither obviously saved nor definitively condemned. Similarly, Cerantonio said, the Muslim who acknowledges one omnipotent god and prays, but who dies without pledging himself to a valid caliph and incurring the obligations of that oath, has failed to live a fully Islamic life. I pointed out that this means the vast majority of Muslims in history, and all who passed away between 1924 and 2014, died a death of disbelief. Cerantonio nodded gravely. “I would go so far as to say that Islam has been reestablished” by the caliphate.
...
Before the caliphate, “maybe 85 percent of the Sharia was absent from our lives,” Choudary told me. “These laws are in abeyance until we have khilafa”—a caliphate—“and now we have one.” Without a caliphate, for example, individual vigilantes are not obliged to amputate the hands of thieves they catch in the act. But create a caliphate, and this law, along with a huge body of other jurisprudence, suddenly awakens. In theory, all Muslims are obliged to immigrate to the territory where the caliph is applying these laws. One of Choudary’s prize students, a convert from Hinduism named Abu Rumaysah, evaded police to bring his family of five from London to Syria in November. ...
...
The Islamic State may have medieval-style punishments for moral crimes (lashes for boozing or fornication, stoning for adultery), but its social-welfare program is, at least in some aspects, progressive to a degree that would please an MSNBC pundit. Health care, he said, is free. ...
...
Muslims can say that slavery is not legitimate now, and that crucifixion is wrong at this historical juncture. Many say precisely this. But they cannot condemn slavery or crucifixion outright without contradicting the Koran and the example of the Prophet. “The only principled ground that the Islamic State’s opponents could take is to say that certain core texts and traditional teachings of Islam are no longer valid,” Bernard Haykel says. That really would be an act of apostasy.

So yeah, maybe it's time to look into invalidating certain core texts/teachings since the article's only solution for muslims is to become extremely conservative Salafi (which would still adhere to slavery/crucification at a later date) who is peaceful - for now.

This is just a portion of the long article which extensively discusses things like ISIS orgin, its bad relationship with AQ, and ISIS sympathizers who are visa-less in other countries and "stuck" with no way to travel to Syria that is mandated by the Koran to do if a caliphate has emerged.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
When reasons such as Poverty, Education, etc are proposed as reasons it is not addressing the motivations of the various Leaders of various movements. It addresses the motivations of those who find the Leaders/Organizations attractive and choose to support it.

Nazi Germany is the perfect example of that in action. The German people supported Hitler not because his spewing of hatred and bile was shared by them, but because they were in a shitty situation. Hitler fanned the flames and gave them something to throw blame on. The promise of solving their shitty situation caused Germans to enthusiastically follow Hitler and the Nazi Party to some better place, as they saw it.

That's not to say that there is nothing wrong with Islam. It clearly contains a very malleable message perfect for ISIS and other groups to formulate their BS around. In fact, these groups are likely inspired by it and not just using it as a tool to convince others.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,592
29,221
146
When reasons such as Poverty, Education, etc are proposed as reasons it is not addressing the motivations of the various Leaders of various movements. It addresses the motivations of those who find the Leaders/Organizations attractive and choose to support it.

Nazi Germany is the perfect example of that in action. The German people supported Hitler not because his spewing of hatred and bile was shared by them, but because they were in a shitty situation. Hitler fanned the flames and gave them something to throw blame on. The promise of solving their shitty situation caused Germans to enthusiastically follow Hitler and the Nazi Party to some better place, as they saw it.

That's not to say that there is nothing wrong with Islam. It clearly contains a very malleable message perfect for ISIS and other groups to formulate their BS around. In fact, these groups are likely inspired by it and not just using it as a tool to convince others.

This.

That's an older and very well-known article, especially around here. OP's interpretation that it ignores the issues of poverty and education is the first such interpretation of this article that I have seen--because it's not accurate.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
When reasons such as Poverty, Education, etc are proposed as reasons it is not addressing the motivations of the various Leaders of various movements. It addresses the motivations of those who find the Leaders/Organizations attractive and choose to support it.

Nazi Germany is the perfect example of that in action. The German people supported Hitler not because his spewing of hatred and bile was shared by them, but because they were in a shitty situation. Hitler fanned the flames and gave them something to throw blame on. The promise of solving their shitty situation caused Germans to enthusiastically follow Hitler and the Nazi Party to some better place, as they saw it.

That's not to say that there is nothing wrong with Islam. It clearly contains a very malleable message perfect for ISIS and other groups to formulate their BS around. In fact, these groups are likely inspired by it and not just using it as a tool to convince others.

I don't think it's about bettering their lifestyle situation though, because it isn't exactly "shitty". Many of these jihadists are coming from places where they are living in the lap of luxury with complete religious freedom and peace. E.g. did you see where Abbaaoud was living in France? So in fact, just the opposite is true (and the article touched on it) - Hitler invited them to actually suffer for a cause which was dangerous and exciting which ignited the appeal.

Sure, the ones in Syria are probably mentally and physically ready for that free healthcare/food and an actual purpose in life, but the ones from the West are buying into this cause of the caliphate. They are traveling to Syria because their scripture tells them to in preparation for some crazy imagined battle that is supposed to play out in Dabiq where they defeat an enemy (either western nation or Turkey), get killed by an antichrist down to only 5,000 of them left, and then Jesus is supposed to come down and stab the antichrist in the heart before they are all wiped out (according to the article) and save them. Sounds crazy, right? Where did this come from? The Koran.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
I don't think it's about bettering their lifestyle situation though, because it isn't exactly "shitty". Many of these jihadists are coming from places where they are living in the lap of luxury with complete religious freedom and peace. E.g. did you see where Abbaaoud was living in France? So in fact, just the opposite is true (and the article touched on it) - Hitler invited them to actually suffer for a cause which was dangerous and exciting which ignited the appeal.

Sure, the ones in Syria are probably mentally and physically ready for that free healthcare/food and an actual purpose in life, but the ones from the West are buying into this cause of the caliphate. They are traveling to Syria because their scripture tells them to in preparation for some crazy imagined battle that is supposed to play out in Dabiq where they defeat an enemy (either western nation or Turkey), get killed by an antichrist down to only 5,000 of them left, and then Jesus is supposed to come down and stab the antichrist in the heart before they are all wiped out (according to the article) and save them. Sounds crazy, right? Where did this come from? The Koran.

The various Western Terrorists are certainly more religiously motivated. I'll concede that much.

As for their crazy End Times belief, it's a variation of the Christian equivalent which is just as crazy.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
This.

That's an older and very well-known article, especially around here. OP's interpretation that it ignores the issues of poverty and education is the first such interpretation of this article that I have seen--because it's not accurate.

Poverty and education are the liberal answer to solving everything. You are about to find out that religion trumps all, even education. Look at the boston b0mbers - Dartmouth education. Jihadi john? Great student and educated in London. OBLaden? Well educated. 9/11 pilots? Educated. The French Nationals from last week? No poverty necessary - all lived in nice neighborhoods. All rejected the western way of democracy and peace for Islam.

The only thing education did was allow them to read so they could buy common ingredients in Western stores to make their belts of fun.

Here is your (and western liberals everywhere) fallacy - thinking that muslims will assimilate like good little boys and girls if we give them a nice way of life (abundant food, education, clothes, roof over their head, no persecution, money, electronics, etc). It's simply not true because the ideology permeates through anything we could ever offer. Muhammad is a greater authority than any authority in any western nation, just as God is the top authority for Christians.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
Poverty and education are the liberal answer to solving everything. You are about to find out that religion trumps all, even education. Look at the boston b0mbers - Dartmouth education. Jihadi john? Great student and educated in London. OBLaden? Well educated. 9/11 pilots? Educated. The French Nationals from last week? No poverty necessary - all lived in nice neighborhoods. All rejected the western way of democracy and peace for Islam.

The only thing education did was allow them to read so they could buy common ingredients in Western stores to make their belts of fun.

These are all very small groups or Individuals. By any definition, exceptions to the rule.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,592
29,221
146
Poverty and education are the liberal answer to solving everything. You are about to find out that religion trumps all, even education. Look at the boston b0mbers - Dartmouth education. Jihadi john? Great student and educated in London. OBLaden? Well educated. 9/11 pilots? Educated. The French Nationals from last week? No poverty necessary - all lived in nice neighborhoods. All rejected the western way of democracy and peace for Islam.

The only thing education did was allow them to read so they could buy common ingredients in Western stores to make their belts of fun.

Here is your (and western liberals everywhere) fallacy - thinking that muslims will assimilate like good little boys and girls if we give them a nice way of life (abundant food, education, clothes, roof over their head, no persecution, money, electronics, etc). It's simply not true because the ideology permeates through anything we could ever offer. Muhammad is a greater authority than any authority in any western nation, just as God is the top authority for Christians.

And it looks like your answer is to just not read. all you had to do was go back and actually bold one sentence that you quoted, and you might realize that what you were trying to argue this article is saying, is completely wrong:

Without acknowledgment of these factors, no explanation of the rise of the Islamic State could be complete. But focusing on them to the exclusion of ideology reflects another kind of Western bias: that if religious ideology doesn’t matter much in Washington or Berlin, surely it must be equally irrelevant in Raqqa or Mosul. When a masked executioner says Allahu akbar while beheading an apostate, sometimes he’s doing so for religious reasons.

See? This article never argues that the traditional and very real issues of poverty, education, failed systems of government aren't a problem. It merely says that you can't focus on those to the exclusion of ignoring what is a very specific problem with ISIS.

I've got news for you: Tossing around "liberals say this!" "what liberals fail" and "you liberals!" "HURRRRR!" Doesn't validate your argument.

It more or less informs nearly everyone that you are an idiot.

The article is a fantastic article and everyone should read it. It's quite true that ISIS is a different breed and appeals to a very base nature that much of the idealized West has failed to understand.

But you and your uninformed, intentionally-blinded pea-brained sector do this type of article no justice by misrepresenting it in such a way. I mean, it's funny that you try to make a claim that is boldly rejected in the very sample that you posted,

But well, such is to be expected. I'm honestly not sure if evil muslims or liberals are your worst enemy. You sure as shit have confused all your readers.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
And it looks like your answer is to just not read. all you had to do was go back and actually bold one sentence that you quoted, and you might realize that what you were trying to argue this article is saying, is completely wrong:



See? This article never argues that the traditional and very real issues of poverty, education, failed systems of government aren't a problem. It merely says that you can't focus on those to the exclusion of ignoring what is a very specific problem with ISIS.

I've got news for you: Tossing around "liberals say this!" "what liberals fail" and "you liberals!" "HURRRRR!" Doesn't validate your argument.

It more or less informs nearly everyone that you are an idiot.

The article is a fantastic article and everyone should read it. It's quite true that ISIS is a different breed and appeals to a very base nature that much of the idealized West has failed to understand.

But you and your uninformed, intentionally-blinded pea-brained sector do this type of article no justice by misrepresenting it in such a way. I mean, it's funny that you try to make a claim that is boldly rejected in the very sample that you posted,

But well, such is to be expected. I'm honestly not sure if evil muslims or liberals are your worst enemy. You sure as shit have confused all your readers.

I agree the article says that Poverty/education are part of the equation (which I disagree with) and that the ideology is the problem (I agree with this). Amazing that you cannot grasp that the main issue is ideology when you're not too busy hurling insults like a mental midget at an adult discussion. You brought up the tired liberal argument that "education and poverty will fix everything" and got called out on it and were provided the examples of specific AQ and ISIS foreign soil attackers. Next you'll probably start claiming we need to show them more love with "open borders". Liberal solutions are flawed and outdated. It's time to get tough with these assholes. Do you agree?

Furthermore - where is your evidence that education and non-poverty can defeat ISIS radicalization or even muslim radicalization in general? Where is your evidence of Koran scripture that is peaceful (e.g. that forbids warfare if their Allah is insulted)? Show me proof.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,443
8,109
136
Its a great article (I think I might have linked it here a few times myself).

What they want in the short term however is to engender an "us or them" attitude between Muslims and the West. Its the only way they can get the numbers they need.

Ironically enough the people most vocal about fighting the "Islamic threat" are keen on doing the exact same thing.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
ISIS literally thinks this is the end times, and any 'infidels' are devils walking the earth.

It's like an episode of the walking dead, we're the zombies, and ISIS cells are 'groups' each with their own Rick Grimes.
 

NAC4EV

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2015
1,882
754
136
attachment.php

Everyone seems to be wondering why Muslim Terrorists are so quick to commit suicide.
Lets have a look at the evidence:



- No Christmas
- No television
- No nude women
- No football
- No pork chops
- No hot dogs
- No burgers
- No beer
- No bacon
- Rags for clothes
- Towels for hats
- Constant wailing from some idiot in a tower
- More than one wife
- More than one mother in law
- You can't shave
- Your wife can't shave
- You can't wash off the smell of donkey
- and your wife smells worse than your donkey
- You cook over burning fire of camel shit
- Your wife is picked by someone else for you
- Women dress to look like garbage bags at the curb
- Your government is a dictatorship.

Then they tell you that "when you die, it all gets better"??

Well no shit Sherlock!....
It's not like it could get much worse

THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!

They're not happy in Gaza ....
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya ....
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran ...
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen ...
They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan ..
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon ..

SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in Canada ....
They're happy in England ....
They're happy in France .....
They're happy in Italy ...........
They're happy in Germany.
They're happy in Sweden ...
They're happy in the USA .
They're happy in Norway ....
They're happy in Holland ......
They're happy in Denmark .

Basically, they're happy in every country that is not Muslim
and unhappy in every country that is!

AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?
Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.

THEY BLAME US, THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN
AND THEN; They want to change those countries to be like....
THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY!
sSig_yeahright.gif

 
Last edited:

Bart*Simpson

Senior member
Jul 21, 2015
604
4
36
www.canadaka.net
The various Western Terrorists are certainly more religiously motivated. I'll concede that much.

I keep hearing about these Western terrorist organizations from you over the years. Who are they? Do you have a list? And, while you're at it, how about a list of all of their terror attacks?

As for their crazy End Times belief, it's a variation of the Christian equivalent which is just as crazy.

Nope. The Muslim belief is that they can force the Mahdi to start the end times by creating conditions that the Mahdi will have to respond to.

The core Christian belief is that the End Times are irrelevant and what matters is whether or not the individual is ready to meet God because that can happen at any time.

The crazy people like Pat Robertson obsess about the End Times and they really HOPE that it'll happen sometime soon. It's a loony belief and it is not supported by scripture.

To be fair to the Muslims the folks who go off about the end times the most are the Shia and the Sunni are less concerned with the end times.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
I keep hearing about these Western terrorist organizations from you over the years. Who are they? Do you have a list? And, while you're at it, how about a list of all of their terror attacks?



Nope. The Muslim belief is that they can force the Mahdi to start the end times by creating conditions that the Mahdi will have to respond to.

The core Christian belief is that the End Times are irrelevant and what matters is whether or not the individual is ready to meet God because that can happen at any time.

The crazy people like Pat Robertson obsess about the End Times and they really HOPE that it'll happen sometime soon. It's a loony belief and it is not supported by scripture.

To be fair to the Muslims the folks who go off about the end times the most are the Shia and the Sunni are less concerned with the end times.

Odd comment given that Daesh is a Sunni death cult.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
I keep hearing about these Western terrorist organizations from you over the years. Who are they? Do you have a list? And, while you're at it, how about a list of all of their terror attacks?



Nope. The Muslim belief is that they can force the Mahdi to start the end times by creating conditions that the Mahdi will have to respond to.

The core Christian belief is that the End Times are irrelevant and what matters is whether or not the individual is ready to meet God because that can happen at any time.

The crazy people like Pat Robertson obsess about the End Times and they really HOPE that it'll happen sometime soon. It's a loony belief and it is not supported by scripture.

To be fair to the Muslims the folks who go off about the end times the most are the Shia and the Sunni are less concerned with the end times.

What Western Terrorist organizations are you talking about? My post was dealing primarily with Muslim Terrorists in the West, such as the one that carried out the Paris attack.

That's where the word "variation" comes in. Both include Jesus slicing and dicing the Anti-Christ for eg, but certainly there are differences.

Biblically, Christians don't instigate the End Times, however there are some Christians who do in fact believe they can do just that by helping restore the whole territory of Israel. So like I said, the 2 End Times scenarios are similar and there are agents on both sides eager to see it play out.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,938
6,530
136
attachment.php

Everyone seems to be wondering why Muslim Terrorists are so quick to commit suicide.
Lets have a look at the evidence:



- No Christmas
- No television
- No nude women
- No football
- No pork chops
- No hot dogs
- No burgers
- No beer
- No bacon
- Rags for clothes
- Towels for hats
- Constant wailing from some idiot in a tower
- More than one wife
- More than one mother in law
- You can't shave
- Your wife can't shave
- You can't wash off the smell of donkey
- and your wife smells worse than your donkey
- You cook over burning fire of camel shit
- Your wife is picked by someone else for you
- Women dress to look like garbage bags at the curb
- Your government is a dictatorship.

Then they tell you that "when you die, it all gets better"??

Well no shit Sherlock!....
It's not like it could get much worse

THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!

They're not happy in Gaza ....
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya ....
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran ...
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen ...
They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan ..
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon ..

SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in Canada ....
They're happy in England ....
They're happy in France .....
They're happy in Italy ...........
They're happy in Germany.
They're happy in Sweden ...
They're happy in the USA .
They're happy in Norway ....
They're happy in Holland ......
They're happy in Denmark .

Basically, they're happy in every country that is not Muslim
and unhappy in every country that is!

AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?
Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.

THEY BLAME US, THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN
AND THEN; They want to change those countries to be like....
THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY!
sSig_yeahright.gif


I do appreciate good satire and this piece is brilliant.
 

Remobz

Platinum Member
Jun 9, 2005
2,563
37
91
attachment.php

Everyone seems to be wondering why Muslim Terrorists are so quick to commit suicide.
Lets have a look at the evidence:



- No Christmas
- No television
- No nude women
- No football
- No pork chops
- No hot dogs
- No burgers
- No beer
- No bacon
- Rags for clothes
- Towels for hats
- Constant wailing from some idiot in a tower
- More than one wife
- More than one mother in law
- You can't shave
- Your wife can't shave
- You can't wash off the smell of donkey
- and your wife smells worse than your donkey
- You cook over burning fire of camel shit
- Your wife is picked by someone else for you
- Women dress to look like garbage bags at the curb
- Your government is a dictatorship.

Then they tell you that "when you die, it all gets better"??

Well no shit Sherlock!....
It's not like it could get much worse

THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!

They're not happy in Gaza ....
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya ....
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran ...
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen ...
They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan ..
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon ..

SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in Canada ....
They're happy in England ....
They're happy in France .....
They're happy in Italy ...........
They're happy in Germany.
They're happy in Sweden ...
They're happy in the USA .
They're happy in Norway ....
They're happy in Holland ......
They're happy in Denmark .

Basically, they're happy in every country that is not Muslim
and unhappy in every country that is!

AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?
Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.

THEY BLAME US, THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN
AND THEN; They want to change those countries to be like....
THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY!
sSig_yeahright.gif


This is brilliant and funny.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
I believe ISIS is primarily a political group not religious. What they want is polarization. Conflict is life. They can't grow or recruit in stable regions.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,592
29,221
146
I agree the article says that Poverty/education are part of the equation (which I disagree with) and that the ideology is the problem (I agree with this). Amazing that you cannot grasp that the main issue is ideology when you're not too busy hurling insults like a mental midget at an adult discussion. You brought up the tired liberal argument that "education and poverty will fix everything" and got called out on it and were provided the examples of specific AQ and ISIS foreign soil attackers. Next you'll probably start claiming we need to show them more love with "open borders". Liberal solutions are flawed and outdated. It's time to get tough with these assholes. Do you agree?

Furthermore - where is your evidence that education and non-poverty can defeat ISIS radicalization or even muslim radicalization in general? Where is your evidence of Koran scripture that is peaceful (e.g. that forbids warfare if their Allah is insulted)? Show me proof.

never did I do that.

I also never suggested that it would fix everything. Again, you see what you want to see. You aren't very aware of the things around you, are you?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
I believe ISIS is primarily a political group not religious. What they want is polarization. Conflict is life. They can't grow or recruit in stable regions.

Sure they can. If I have time I can compile a list of recruits from Western countries who have been radicalized at their local mosque. Take away the violent ideology and the mosques have no leg to stand on. If the muslims really wanted to change their scripture from slavery/crucifixation/killing, they would. The problem with that is if they removed such things, then their religion would look very similar to the Bible's NT which preaches to love your enemy and help them (polar opposite of the Koran).