What is wrong with building an SLI sytem?

[figfiddle]

Sample System 1:

Dimension XPS Gen4
Date & Time: December 24, 2004 11:47:52 PM

SYSTEM COMPONENTS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dell Dimension XPS Series - Gen 4 Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Tech Extreme Edition (3.46GHz, 1066 FSB) ME341H [221-7046] 1
Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional WPXP [313-7222][462-4610][412-0688][420-4838][420-4927] 11
Memory 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x512M) 1GB5 [311-3766] 3
Video Card 256MB PCI Express? x16 Nvidia® GeForce 6800 GTO Graphics Card 256GT68 [320-4077] 6
Hard Drive FREE UPGRADE! 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) 160SP [463-0994] 8
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices 3.5 in Floppy Drive FD [340-1927] 10
Network Interface Integrated Gigabit Ethernet IN [430-0742] 13
CD or DVD Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD + FREE UPGRADE! 16x DVD+/-RW w/dbl layer write DV16DVP [463-4686][420-5079] 16
Sound Cards Sound Blaster Audigy? 2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, IEEE 1394 capability SBA2X [313-3114] 17
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 1Yr Ltd Warranty, 1Yr At-Home Service, and 1Yr Technical Support S111OS [950-1260][950-3337][950-9797][412-0360][960-2800] 29
XPS Specialized Support Dimension XPS, Specialized Support XPSSUPP [960-2697] 31
Tracer Skus Award Winning Service and Support XPS3SAP [463-5453] 82

ACCESSORIES

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Dell 720 Color Printer Qty 1
Free Dell Color Printer 720 Unit Price $0.00
Catalog Number: 29
Sort
Module Description Product Code Sku Id
Dell Color Printer 720 Free Dell Color Printer 720 FREE720 [255-0071] 1
Hardware Support Services 1Yr Ltd. Warranty , 1 yrTechnical Support , 1 yr Advance Exchange AE1YR [902-7040][960-4638][960-2840] 29


TOTAL: $2,998.00
Lets assume you get a delff coupon for 20% off which would make it $2998.00-$599.60=$2398.40



Sample System 2:

Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS $86.00 (After $25.00 rebate)
Gamer Limited Edition Retail

CoolerMaster PAC-T01-EK Praetorian $115.99
Aluminium Mid Tower Case (Black) Retail

NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, $67.00
Black, Model ND-3500A BK, OEM

Lite-On 16X DVD-ROM, Model SOHD-167T $29.00
Black, RETAIL

NEC 1.44MB Black Internal Floppy Drive, OEM $9.99

OCZ PowerStream 520W Power Supply $139.00
OCZ520ADJ - 520W

Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 ST3160827AS $112.00
160GB Serial ATA 7200RPM Hard Drive
w/8MB Buffer

Asus A8N-SLI DELUXE Socket 939/nForce4/ $213.66
PCI-Express/RAID/2GBE/ATX Motherboard


Corsair Value Select (Dual Pack) 184 Pin $144.96
512MBx2 DDR PC-3200

AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 2.2 GHz, 512KB L2 $317.00
Cache 64-bit Socket 939 Processor - Retail

BFG 6800GT PCIE X2 $800.00

Windows XP PRO OEM W/SP2 $143.00


TOTAL: $2177.60 (includes tax and shipping)
(Over $200.00 less than Dell)

Which system would you rather have? BTW the second system is the one I am currently building.

I purchase a brand new system every 4-5 years and between new systems I will do upgrades (i.e. video card, sound card, monitor, speaker, etc.). I usually spend about $2k.

The point I am trying to make here is that I don't understand why people are trying to shoot down the idea of buiding an SLI system by saying it costs too much because the technology is too new. Any high-end system that you build at any given time will cost you money regardless of the current techonology available. The reason I used the 2 sytems above as an example is to show you that if I were to go to Dell to build my high-end system not only would I pay more, I wouldn't even get SLI.

SLI tecnology currently costs a little more but for a guy like me that will keep a computer for 5 years and upgrade components along the way it is well worth the money.

 

[Chaotic42]

I think that most people are afraid of spending $800 on video.

I remember people justifying two $400 Voodoo 2 cards just the way you are. This was 6 years ago. In 5 years I don't think that your dual 6800s are going to be worth much of anything.

 

[ssvegeta1010]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
I think that most people are afraid of spending $800 on video.

I remember people justifying two $400 Voodoo 2 cards just the way you are. This was 6 years ago. In 5 years I don't think that your dual 6800s are going to be worth much of anything.

Its also the current inflation on all s939 A64s and SLI mobos (Wasnt monarch charging like $325 for the Asus?)

 

[figfiddle]

Yeah but in 5 years I will probably have upgraded to dual gafibulators. I guess the point I am trying to make is what high-end system are you currently going to build which isn't going to cost you alot of money?

 

[NinjaGnome]

I myself will not go with SLI because the performance from what I have seen just isnt there. I will probably be upgrading to an 800XL along with a new A64 3200 and Nforce 4 motherboard with no SLI. By the time a new game comes out that wont run at 1280x1024 I will be able to buy just another one card and itll run better than your 2 much older cards.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: figfiddle
Yeah but in 5 years I will probably have upgraded to dual gafibulators. I guess the point I am trying to make is what high-end system are you currently going to build which isn't going to cost you alot of money?

That's why I never build high-end systems. Back in the Socket 7 days you could keep the same board and whatnot and just upgrade your processor. This isn't really the case anymore.

I wouldn't spend more than $1200 or so on a system.

Remember though, this is just me. Your system there will really kick ass, and I don't think you'll be dissapointed with it. :beer:

 

[figfiddle]

About a month ago when I set out to buy a new computer I was strongly leaning towards a Dell. After doing some research and reading up on new technologies I discovered I could build a better sytem for about the same if not even less money than a Dell. So for me given the circumstances it couldn't have worked out better. I set out to spend about $2k and I did. The sweet part is I am getting alot more for the money than I originally thought I would with the Dell.

 

[Lonyo]

With SLI, the only decent option is the 6800GT.
Negativity (from me at least) comes when people suggest buying 6600GT's to SLI, it's worthless.
6800Ultras are waaay too much as well, so 6800GT is the old realy SLI solution worth considering, IMO.

 

[jlambvo]

Dual 6600GTs are comparable to an Ultra from what I've seen, and its still like half the cost. Myself, I'm doing a single 6800GT for now and adding a second one when it becomes appropriate. This will be a much cheaper way of getting to the next-gen level of performance, since by then th 6800GT will be far cheaper but still almost double perfomance. Also, when those next gen cards come out, why not get a pair of those? SLI will always provide a greater performance ceiling, and while its more expensive initially you can save money in the upgrade path.

It's more important to me because I'm getting into game development and want to really push using real time 3d engines as an art medium, so my performance requirements will be higher than the average end user. Also Doom 3 and HL2 don't make much use of SLI excpet at insane resolutions with full AA, but this is because the games are meant to support relatively old machines. If you remember the videos showing off Source's high-definition lighting and texture effects... well, there's a lot more graphic potential to that engine than is reflected in current benchmarks. If you really made use of the unused features in these engines, I'm guessing that it would start to stress even the Ultras today but SLI makes it feasible to work with.

 

[obeseotron]

A real working system with dual 6600gt's is nowhere near half the cost of a single 6800 ultra, considering the $200 premium on the motherboard and power supply considerations it's probably even more. 6800 ultras are basically pointless anyway, they are not even 10% faster than a 6800gt, and the VAST majority of 6800gt's work fine at and above ultra clocks anyway. SLI is pointless with 6600GT's because you could get almost the same performance for much less (considering SLI motherboards are so expensive) from a 6800gt. Even finiding 2 6800 ultras to SLI would be hard enough forget about remotely affordable. 6800gt sli is the only viable solution unless you're just rich.

 

[shinotenshi]

I must admit these threads are pointless. I'm building an SLI sysyem for the same reason my mom keeps buying shoes, my brother buys sneakers and others put $50,000 dollars in cars that cost $5,000, because we can. life for the most part has to be pratical, but you can't say you have really lived life without there being at least some part of it thats a touch impratical, just for the sake of it, for no other reason than you can.

 

[figfiddle]

Are all computer geeks poor? I have never heard so many people complain about money. Computers are not exactly the most expensive hobby out there. I know people who will spend $5k to upgrade a turbo in their car or fishermen that spend $3k-$5k per season on equipment, boat fuel, and travel. Or even skiers that spend $1k on equipment then $50-$150 per week to go skiing.

We are talking about spending a couple of grand every 4-5 years for a new rig and maybe $400-$500 a year thereafter for upgrades. Not really a bank breaker guys!

There is also a difference between the enthusiast and the person that has a need. I may be the guy who likes investing in cutting edge technology but have no real need for it. Meaning I could conduct business with much less on a daily basis. Or I could be the person that has a real need for a basic computer in order to make it through college for example.

I am an enthusiast. I get a thrill out of having the latest and greatest and upgading it on a regular basis. I am by no means wealthy but I like spending money on things I enjoy.

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: shinotenshi
I must admit these threads are pointless. I'm building an SLI sysyem for the same reason my mom keeps buying shoes, my brother buys sneakers and others put $50,000 dollars in cars that cost $5,000, because we can. life for the most part has to be pratical, but you can't say you have really lived life of there is at least some part of it thats a touch impratical, just for the sake of it, for no other reason than you can.

Amen shinotenshi!

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: figfiddle
Are all computer geeks poor?

Not really anymore, but I remember being poor. Eating cabbage four nights per week. No power. No job. No car.

I make a decent amount of money now ($23K), but paying for school takes a nice chunk out of that.

My past experinces make me avoid things like $50000 cars, $3000 computers...

I don't know what you do for a living, but there's no way I could spend the money you're talking about.

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: figfiddle
Are all computer geeks poor?

Not really anymore, but I remember being poor. Eating cabbage four nights per week. No power. No job. No car.

I make a decent amount of money now ($23K), but paying for school takes a nice chunk out of that.

My past experinces make me avoid things like $50000 cars, $3000 computers...

I don't know what you do for a living, but there's no way I could spend the money you're talking about.

I make a comfortable living and once again I like spending money on things I enjoy.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: figfiddle
I make a comfortable living and once again I like spending money on things I enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I'm all for people buying what they want. I'm a capitalist.

I'm just saying that's a lot of money to a lot of people here.

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: figfiddle
I make a comfortable living and once again I like spending money on things I enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I'm all for people buying what they want. I'm a capitalist.

I'm just saying that's a lot of money to a lot of people here.

I'm with you brother. I understand that. My only beef is that these people are criticizing these new technologies because they can't afford to buy them. They also put us down for choosing to buy them.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: figfiddle
I'm with you brother. I understand that. My only beef is that these people are criticizing these new technologies because they can't afford to buy them. They also put us down for choosing to buy them.

Ah, well I hope I don't come off like that.

:beer:

 

[beatle]

Many people see the point of diminishing returns as being a smaller dollar figure.
Someone might say, "Well, hell, if I gotta spend 2x more to get 30% more juice out of it, that's a ripoff!" Another might say "30% for only a few hundred more, that's a bargain!" I think it's a cool technology, but my pockets aren't explored by Jacques Cousteau, either, so I'll stick with my ol' AGP card.

 

[KayKay]

Toms Hardware video charts, which im sure most of you have seen before, has its latest installment, of pci-e cards

http://www20.graphics.tomshard...222/vga_charts-09.html

The results are surprising.

1 6800 GT beats 6800GT SLI. 1 6800 Ultra beats 6800 Ultra SLI, some times. and otherwise its not by much
Basically I don't think they have it working to a level most people are expecting.

But this is not saying NF4 is a bad thing, since it does provide PCI-e on AMD which is good

 

[rpmcrash]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: figfiddle
I make a comfortable living and once again I like spending money on things I enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I'm all for people buying what they want. I'm a capitalist.

I'm just saying that's a lot of money to a lot of people here.

chaotic 42 give this guy a link to go buy a AW rig. real world is o.k with me im always looking to
save a buck .

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: figfiddle
I'm with you brother. I understand that. My only beef is that these people are criticizing these new technologies because they can't afford to buy them. They also put us down for choosing to buy them.

Ah, well I hope I don't come off like that.

:beer:

No man its all good. I just think guys like you and me belong to this forum because we love computers and technology. I also think anyone here would be lying if they said they wouldn't build a kickass system if money wasn't an issue.

 

[0roo0roo]

meh.. pointless to argue really. if one can afford it, why not if you have the monitor with resolution high enough to justify it.. then its perfect. its like argueing that a camry is good enough... well sure it is, but many would rather buy a lexus or better. whether its cost is justified depends on your finances

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
meh.. pointless to argue really. if one can afford it, why not if you have the monitor with resolution high enough to justify it.. then its perfect. its like argueing that a camry is good enough... well sure it is, but many would rather buy a lexus or better. whether its cost is justified depends on your finances

Wise man 0roo0roo.

 

[jlambvo]

Originally posted by: KayKay
Toms Hardware video charts, which im sure most of you have seen before, has its latest installment, of pci-e cards

http://www20.graphics.tomshard...222/vga_charts-09.html

The results are surprising.

1 6800 GT beats 6800GT SLI. 1 6800 Ultra beats 6800 Ultra SLI, some times. and otherwise its not by much
Basically I don't think they have it working to a level most people are expecting.

But this is not saying NF4 is a bad thing, since it does provide PCI-e on AMD which is good

The single card will beat an SLI setup at resolutions where performance is CPU limited, because of the tiny amount of overhead. Look at the 1600x1200 resolutions and you start to see pretty significant differences. The benchmarked games are also only the very first generation examples of these engines which have a lot of headroom technically speaking. If they made more use of the pixel/vertex shaders you would see even more of a difference at lower resolutions. This is why I personally find use in an SLI setup, because I want to be designing at the next level of detail.

Also, I still think that although the initial premium you pay on the mobo negates the savings on the video cards themselves, it is a one-time extra cost that can save money with later upgrades. When the next series of video cards is released that is significantly faster than a single 6800GT, instead of paying a premium on that card I can get a second GT for much cheaper and still have a competitive setup.

I would have a harder time justifying the investment if it were strictly a gaming machine, but as it was pointed out that is hardly the concern of any enthusiast regardless of field.