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You are so full of shit it is pathetic.
Did you read the court case before you made the statements above??
The 7 of 9 line is utter BS. Most of the changes to testimony were worthless and had NO bearing on his guilt or innocence. One of the guys who changed his testimony was in the court the day of the hearing and Davis didn't call him to the stand. That speaks volumes about his change in testimony that Davis was afraid to let this guy stand in front of a judge and answer questions.
There WAS physical evidence too. Gun shells from the shooting matches gun shells from an earlier shooting by Davis on the same night. They also found bloody clothes at Davis' house, but they were not allowed into the trail due to lack of a search warrant.
Evidence of the three jurors who have changed their minds? Last I heard it was one and she was only saying he should get another trail so if it has jumped to three that is big news and I'd love to see the source.
When you are done parroting the lines of his defense attorney you should head over and read the actual ruling by the judge in the Supreme Court mandated review of the case and see for yourself just how guilty this guy was.
http://www.georgia.gov/vgn/images/portal/cit_79369762/1755325478.24.10 District Court Order.pdf
Here are the FACTS. And none of these facts are in question and none of them have been disproven by Davis or anyone else trying to defending him. (page 104 of the link)
1. Six people identified Davis was wearing a white shirt that night
2. Four people claimed that the guy in the white shirt killed the officer
3. Four different people directly identified Davis as the guy who killed the officer
4. Two people say that David admitted to them that he was the killer
That is EIGHT people who said said that Davis was the killer! How much more evidence do you want?
NONE of these eight people came out and said that they were wrong and that they picked the wrong guy. NONE!
JSt0rm
Lifer
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Dude don Vito all ready called you ignorant regarding this. Maybe you should listen to him and stop looking like the village idiot.
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The color of his skin is reverent because there is a history of the media circling the wagons around black cop killers.
Davis is just the latest, before him it was Mumia Abu-Jamal who has become a celebrity. In his case like this one there are people who SAW the murder happen and yet people proclaim him to be innocent.
You don't see this type of coverage for any other death penalty case. No one is making a celebrity of Scott Peterson for killing his wife (other than what was already there) they didn't make a big deal out of the racist in Texas that was killed a few days before Davis. Nor has was there this much cover of the other 10 people executed in Texas this year.
But for some reason Troy Davis is nearly a household name, why?
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I agree. There should never be an execution if there is just a little bit of doubt or serious questions about a trail.
But Davis wasn't innocent. And there is NO doubt about this.
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Ignorant of what?
I just posted a link to the court report.
Please educate me on what else I am missing, thanks.
Throckmorton
Lifer
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Read the link and get back to me.
The recanted witness thing is BS. Two of the people who recanted could have been called to testify during the appeal and neither of them was called. Why not?
If you are going to chair wouldn't you do everything you could to save your ass including calling people who are making claims that you were innocent?
And there is evidence, the shell casing match another shooting from the same night.
Seriously, read the link. Just the first few pages which include the eyewitness testimony of 21 people who say what happened that night. By time you finish the eyewitness testimony you will be convinced that he was guilty.
http://www.georgia.gov/vgn/images/portal/cit_79369762/1755325478.24.10 District Court Order.pdf
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JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
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The dude is a fucking lawyer who has dropped knowledge on these forums many time in the past. If he saying your ignorant on this issue I'm going to side with him. Sorry.
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Hey go for it... but I'll stick to what I have read myself instead of someone making a claim and not backing it up...
I lived locally during the Scott Peterson trial and hoopla. It was out of control media bonanza. Not sure about how it went down nationally but I suspect that he got lots of national attention considering how many women proposed to him on death row.
I think you're looking far too much into skin color though. 44% of death row inmates are black so statistically speaking if there is any media attention you have about a 50% chance of it being a black guy. Really not that remarkable as far as the media is concerned. Flip a coin and get back to me at how exciting heads is.
I think you're looking far too much into skin color though. 44% of death row inmates are black so statistically speaking if there is any media attention you have about a 50% chance of it being a black guy. Really not that remarkable as far as the media is concerned. Flip a coin and get back to me at how exciting heads is.
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Again!
It is not skin color it is skin color plus choice of victim.
For some strange reason if a black person kills a cop and claims they are innocent the media goes into overdrive.
It doesn't seem to happen on any other death penalty case.
This is just the latest example.
Mumia Abu-Jamal is other example.
It is not skin color it is skin color plus choice of victim.
For some strange reason if a black person kills a cop and claims they are innocent the media goes into overdrive.
It doesn't seem to happen on any other death penalty case.
This is just the latest example.
Mumia Abu-Jamal is other example.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
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PJ, you're trying to turn two cases into some kind of "trend" of media obsession with black alleged cop killers, when no such trend exists. The Davis case certainly has not generated any more publicity than the even-more-troubling case of Cameron Todd Willingham, who was executed despite being, in my view, probably innocent of any crime.
Mumia Abu-Jamal is, in my opinion, clearly guilty, and while the Mother Jones/Utne Reader types still carry a torch for that case, the mainstream media does not. 60 Minutes ran a piece on the case several years ago which was totally fair and helped convince me of Abu-Jamal's guilt, not his innocence.
The Davis case is something quite different. The case hinged principally on eyewitness identifications (which are notoriously unreliable, and which, in this case, had a number of specific problems, such as inaccurate lineup IDs and later recantations). The two people who claimed Davis had confessed to them later admitted they were lying. I don't believe anybody (with the exception of Davis himself, and perhaps Sylvester Coles) actually knows whether Davis is guilty, but I do believe there was reasonable doubt, and certainly sufficient doubt to give him a new trial and/or commute his death sentence.
This is exactly the kind of case that has led me to oppose the death penalty - the system is too fraught with human error and bias for me to support imposing an irreversible punishment like that. For me it's not so much an ethical issue - I don't care about the civil rights of, say, Gary Ridgway or Richard Ramirez - I am just not sufficiently confident in our system to support the death penalty. I frankly find it embarrassing that we are among the few nations on earth that still uses the death penalty. I don't relish the idea of being in the same club with Yemen, Iran, and North Korea.
Mumia Abu-Jamal is, in my opinion, clearly guilty, and while the Mother Jones/Utne Reader types still carry a torch for that case, the mainstream media does not. 60 Minutes ran a piece on the case several years ago which was totally fair and helped convince me of Abu-Jamal's guilt, not his innocence.
The Davis case is something quite different. The case hinged principally on eyewitness identifications (which are notoriously unreliable, and which, in this case, had a number of specific problems, such as inaccurate lineup IDs and later recantations). The two people who claimed Davis had confessed to them later admitted they were lying. I don't believe anybody (with the exception of Davis himself, and perhaps Sylvester Coles) actually knows whether Davis is guilty, but I do believe there was reasonable doubt, and certainly sufficient doubt to give him a new trial and/or commute his death sentence.
This is exactly the kind of case that has led me to oppose the death penalty - the system is too fraught with human error and bias for me to support imposing an irreversible punishment like that. For me it's not so much an ethical issue - I don't care about the civil rights of, say, Gary Ridgway or Richard Ramirez - I am just not sufficiently confident in our system to support the death penalty. I frankly find it embarrassing that we are among the few nations on earth that still uses the death penalty. I don't relish the idea of being in the same club with Yemen, Iran, and North Korea.
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From what I have read (which is 90% of the Supreme Court ordered review) there is little doubt to his guilt.
I don't believe that BOTH people who said that David took credit for the killing came out and said they lied.
If I recall correctly most of the recanted testimony had to do with stuff that was not related to whether he was guilty or not. And even without those statements there is tons of evidence that he was guilty.
The whole 7 of 9 thing is smoke and mirrors created to make you think that there is reason to doubt, but when you start reading into those 7 recantions you get a different story.
glenn1
Lifer
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I seem to remember those against capital punishment making a big deal about the Cameron Todd Willingham arson case in Texas, and he was a white guy. While I agree that those opposed to the death penalty show extremely poor judgment sometimes on persons they decide to champion, saying they prefer black cop-killers is ridiculous.
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The Texas thing was nothing compared to the love shown for Davis by the media.
A story about his funeral making it to the front of Yahoo.com?
Did you see that for the Texas guy? Or for any other executed person?
The anti-death penalty people really screwed up this time by picking someone so obviously guilty and then pouring out so much love and support for the guy.
Even the "I am Troy Davis" tee-shirts were BS with a picture of a middle aged Troy Davis on them instead of a picture of the 20 year old who killed a cop.
I understand wanting to stop the death penalty, but pick someone other than a low life like Davis to make your stand.
Since when is yahoo.com the top of the media food chain? You're using 2 cases and 1 website to draw a weird conclusion.
You can be anti-death penalty for a number of reasons. Mine is financial. I don't have a problem executing murderers but not at these extreme costs.
You can be anti-death penalty for a number of reasons. Mine is financial. I don't have a problem executing murderers but not at these extreme costs.
Onceler
Golden Member
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A bullet costs at most $2.50. Put that in the back of the head of the felon and fire. Damn liberals try to make these things as expensive as possible. They love to punish the American victums and glorify and reward those that attack innocent Americans because they hate us.
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HomerJS
Lifer
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For some strange reason if a white person goes missing the media goes into overdrive.
PJ, maybe you are asking the wrong question.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
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You are mistaken. Both Jeffrey Sapp and Kevin MacQueen, the two people he had supposedly confessed to, testified last year that he did no such thing, and that they had made their statements based on police coercion and/or for reduced sentences in their own felony cases.
http://savannahnow.com/troy-davis/2010-06-24/troy-davis-hearing-could-end-today#.TojpT-tpefM
What is the "tons of evidence" to which you refer? The evidence he was actually convicted on consisted of some exceptionally weak eyewitness testimony (even if you disregard the subsequent recantations, the cross-examination at trial cast great doubt on whether the IDs made by any of these witnesses could be relied upon), plus the false testimony about his admitting his guilt. There was some equivocal ballistics testimony tying the shooting to the one he was convicted of earlier in the day, but even the state's expert admitted the two shootings might not have been done by the same weapon. (A weapon which was never found, just like the one possessed by the other potential killer, Sylvester Coles, at the scene of the shooting.)
With all due respect you're not viewing this case with an open mind if you consider Troy Davis "obviously guilty." I am far from being a bleeding heart on these things - I have sent men to prison for life - but this was a weak case and it has gotten weaker over the past 20 years. It's certainly possible Davis was guilty but not beyond a reasonable doubt in my opinion. I think that is a lot of what strikes people about this case in particular - it appears that if Davis had had the benefit of a better defense team he'd have likely been acquitted.
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Ok, you cleared up the thing about the two guys claiming that Troy admitted to the murder.
Now how about the 4 people at the trial that pointed to Davis in court and said he did it?
Or the six people who said the guy in the white shirt did it? (several of which were Troy's friends)
As for all the recanted testimony. As the judge said these people had plenty of time to let the truth come out and it wasn't until years down the road and after lots of pressure from death penalty foes that people started to change stories.
If you haven't already I suggest you read the first few pages of the court order in this link
http://www.georgia.gov/vgn/images/p...55325478.24.10%20District Court Order.pdf
Read the witness statements for 21 people and notice how all their initial stories work together and make sense.
And then read some of the recanted testimony and claims made by the Davis people and see how they don't fit in with what was said by people right after the killing.
Davis admitted to be at the scene of the crime. It has well established that there were two people arguing with the homeless man over the beer.
One was in a yellow shirt and one was in a white shirt. The homeless man says that it was the one in white who hit him and it was the one in white that shot the cop.
Multiple other witnesses back up his statement. And when I say multiple we are talking about at least 9 people who either picked Davis out as the killer or said that the guy in the white shirt was the killer.
Most of those 9 have never changed their stories.
The ONLY way Davis is innocent is if the guy in the yellow shirt is the killer and NONE of the stories given on the day of the murder match up with the guy in yellow being the killer.
And when given a chance to present his case before a judge Davis barely made an effort to call the guy in yellow into court and instead presented hearsay from a couple of people who claim that yellow shirt guy admitted to the crime.
So it comes down to this:
either davis or the guy in yellow killed the cop. 9 people who saw the murder claim it was Davis. No one who was there the day of the murder claim it was the guy in yellow, not even Davis himself who says he didn't see who did it...
Based on that what makes you think Davis is innocent?
Everything above is factual and can be found right in the link I posted. Read it for yourself.
Now how about the 4 people at the trial that pointed to Davis in court and said he did it?
Or the six people who said the guy in the white shirt did it? (several of which were Troy's friends)
As for all the recanted testimony. As the judge said these people had plenty of time to let the truth come out and it wasn't until years down the road and after lots of pressure from death penalty foes that people started to change stories.
If you haven't already I suggest you read the first few pages of the court order in this link
http://www.georgia.gov/vgn/images/p...55325478.24.10%20District Court Order.pdf
Read the witness statements for 21 people and notice how all their initial stories work together and make sense.
And then read some of the recanted testimony and claims made by the Davis people and see how they don't fit in with what was said by people right after the killing.
Davis admitted to be at the scene of the crime. It has well established that there were two people arguing with the homeless man over the beer.
One was in a yellow shirt and one was in a white shirt. The homeless man says that it was the one in white who hit him and it was the one in white that shot the cop.
Multiple other witnesses back up his statement. And when I say multiple we are talking about at least 9 people who either picked Davis out as the killer or said that the guy in the white shirt was the killer.
Most of those 9 have never changed their stories.
The ONLY way Davis is innocent is if the guy in the yellow shirt is the killer and NONE of the stories given on the day of the murder match up with the guy in yellow being the killer.
And when given a chance to present his case before a judge Davis barely made an effort to call the guy in yellow into court and instead presented hearsay from a couple of people who claim that yellow shirt guy admitted to the crime.
So it comes down to this:
either davis or the guy in yellow killed the cop. 9 people who saw the murder claim it was Davis. No one who was there the day of the murder claim it was the guy in yellow, not even Davis himself who says he didn't see who did it...
Based on that what makes you think Davis is innocent?
Everything above is factual and can be found right in the link I posted. Read it for yourself.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
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I have read the entire opinion on the habeas petition. While your summary identifies some of the highlights, it ignores the numerous issues with the witness testimony, including but not limited to some witnesses identifying the wrong suspect during lineups and the limitations of what they actually observed (leaving aside the recantations of some witnesses). All of this is compounded by the intrinsic unreliability of eyewitness testimony. From my standpoint his "admissions of guilt" were by far the strongest pieces of evidence against him, and they were obtained only through overreaching conduct by the investigators. How can you be so confident they didn't do the same thing with respect to other witnesses? To the contrary it seems highly likely to me that they did.
As I said, I am not saying Davis was necessarily innocent. I just believe there are enough problems with the case and the way it was investigated that I find the death penalty a significant, and permanent, miscarriage of justice. Honestly, how is society served by this? I think it's despicable.
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