What is this about Minneapolis "defunding" its PD?

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Yes, and they have the votes on the City Council to do it right now, and intend to do it. It's what they mean to do which is vague. They are clearly saying they want to do more than just reduce PD funding to use it for other things. More than that I cannot deduce. Direct quotes from City Council members do little to clarify their meaning:

"The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," Bender said.
"We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department. And when we're done, we're not simply gonna glue it back together. We are going to dramatically rethink how we approach public safety and emergency response."
"Yes. We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department and replace it with a transformative new model of public safety."
No details have been given as to what that means.

So, are they literally talking about having no police, such that if you call 911 to report an axe wielding psycho breaking into your house, there will be no help available? Or people can drive drunk throughout the city and no one is there to stop them?

Or is this really just them using very strident language to describe something not nearly as radical as what the language suggests? In which case, they are taking advance of the politics of the moment and the rage against police to posture in a very dishonest way.
 
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DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
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What's so hard to understand that the police does require a complete dismantling and rebuilding from the ground up with new training procedures, the amount of training cadets receive, the type of training cadets receive? Also, complete oversight on police actions and a major reduction in police funding so they're not like the military?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
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Yes, and they have the votes on the City Council to do it right now, and intend to do it. It's what they mean to do which is vague. They are clearly saying they want to do more than just reduce PD funding to use it for other things. More than that I cannot deduce. Direct quotes from City Council members do little to clarify their meaning:







No details have been given as to what that means.

So, are they literally talking about having no police, such that if you call 911 to report an axe wielding psycho breaking into your house, there will be no help available? Or people can drive drunk throughout the city and no one is there to stop them?

Or is this really just them using very strident language to describe something not nearly as radical as what the language suggests? In which case, they are taking advance of the politics of the moment and the rage against police to posture in a very dishonest way.
A huge shift in attitude from “law enforcement” to public safety. An example I would imagine would be a focus on harm reduction and treatment for drug offenders as opposed to focusing on locking people up.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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What's so hard to understand that the police does require a complete dismantling and rebuilding from the ground up with new training procedures, the amount of training cadets receive, the type of training cadets receive? Also, complete oversight on police actions and a major reduction in police funding so they're not like the military?
They never said "rebuilding from the ground up."

Oh sure, that may be what they meant, but is not what they said. In fact, the first quote directly implies that they mean to have no police department at some point in the future.

Read it again:

"The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," Bender said.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,982
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A huge shift in attitude from “law enforcement” to public safety. An example I would imagine would be a focus on harm reduction and treatment for drug offenders as opposed to focusing on locking people up.
Then that's what they should be saying. But the quotes I'm reading are suggesting something far more radical than that. They are making it sound quite sensationalistic, likely to score political points. In the meantime, they are leaving the citizens of Minneapolis with little to go on as to the specific plans.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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Simply defunding any police overtime would help curtail the current spat of police violence. As things stand, the more the officers keep the shit stirred, the more money they pocket. Every time an officer commits an outrage on camera it’s good for tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in overtime to the other officers.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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Yes, and they have the votes on the City Council to do it right now, and intend to do it. It's what they mean to do which is vague. They are clearly saying they want to do more than just reduce PD funding to use it for other things. More than that I cannot deduce. Direct quotes from City Council members do little to clarify their meaning:







No details have been given as to what that means.

So, are they literally talking about having no police, such that if you call 911 to report an axe wielding psycho breaking into your house, there will be no help available? Or people can drive drunk throughout the city and no one is there to stop them?

Or is this really just them using very strident language to describe something not nearly as radical as what the language suggests? In which case, they are taking advance of the politics of the moment and the rage against police to posture in a very dishonest way.
Per CNN the term "de-fund" is not exactly accurate, sounded like they wanted to tear it down and rebuild something more efficient and monies going to other agencies as in the Police don't show up to mental crisis or child problems at school but they were sort of vague about what the Police role would be.
I heard a de-fund the Police guy on the radio this afternoon and they sound a lot like Libertarians. Basically there would be minimal organized Police and most stuff would be handled by neighbors and local groups. Assuming everyone worked together that sounds great however I know that will NEVER happen and there will simply be areas with money that pay a bunch of George Zimmerman yahoos to act like idiots and other places without much money will have citizen groups or in other words "gangs" that want payment to keep the property safe.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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This is an idea being considered in many cities, not just in the US. I really don't know any details either.

That said, recently a City, I think it was actually Minneapolis even, had mandated that the Police cease the type of Training that included the type of action that lead to this recent Death. The Police chose to teach those tactics despite it though. Destroying the whole Department, under these circumstances, would seem to be the only way the City could fix their problem.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Per CNN the term "de-fund" is not exactly accurate, sounded like they wanted to tear it down and rebuild something more efficient and monies going to other agencies as in the Police don't show up to mental crisis or child problems at school but they were sort of vague about what the Police role would be.
I heard a de-fund the Police guy on the radio this afternoon and they sound a lot like Libertarians. Basically there would be minimal organized Police and most stuff would be handled by neighbors and local groups. Assuming everyone worked together that sounds great however I know that will NEVER happen and there will simply be areas with money that pay a bunch of George Zimmerman yahoos to act like idiots and other places without much money will have citizen groups or in other words "gangs" that want payment to keep the property safe.
In six months they may start to have something but I wouldn't go there.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
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Defund the police, and then what?

Everybody gets along happily and nobody commits crime?

Good luck with that.

When they say "defund". Does that mean nothing to replace them? The idea that you get better policing by spending less money is kinda crazy to me. Would you defund hospitals and expect healthcare to improve?

I would think the problem isn’t spending, it’s education and proper training.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Defund the police, and then what?

Everybody gets along happily and nobody commits crime?

Good luck with that.

When they say "defund". Does that mean nothing to replace them? The idea that you get better policing by spending less money is kinda crazy to me. Would you defund hospitals and expect healthcare to improve?

I would think the problem isn’t spending, it’s education and proper training.
You cannot re-educate or retrain a bad cop! It doesn`t work!
 
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feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
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Yes, and they have the votes on the City Council to do it right now, and intend to do it. It's what they mean to do which is vague. They are clearly saying they want to do more than just reduce PD funding to use it for other things. More than that I cannot deduce. Direct quotes from City Council members do little to clarify their meaning:







No details have been given as to what that means.

So, are they literally talking about having no police, such that if you call 911 to report an axe wielding psycho breaking into your house, there will be no help available? Or people can drive drunk throughout the city and no one is there to stop them?

Or is this really just them using very strident language to describe something not nearly as radical as what the language suggests? In which case, they are taking advance of the politics of the moment and the rage against police to posture in a very dishonest way.

It seems like you didn't bother to read or simply could not comprehend what you posted.
Read this again:



Members of the Minneapolis City Council previously said they would take steps to dismantle the police department, including Bender, who tweeted earlier this week, "Yes. We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department and replace it with a transformative new model of public safety."

Jeremiah Ellison, city councilman for Ward 5, tweeted a similar message Thursday, writing, "We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department. And when we're done, we're not simply gonna glue it back together. We are going to dramatically rethink how we approach public safety and emergency response."




How in the world did you get the impression of having no police whatsoever out of that?

Release those pearls, dude.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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The PD seems completely irredeemable and systemically racist, and unwilling to reform. Just look at their union president Bob Kroll. He is a racist on a power trip who has been threatening to pull enforcement from city districts whose councilmembers complain about police brutality. If the police keep electing these union leaders, won't change from within, it should be disbanded and reconstituted with all new officers. Ukraine fired all their cops after the unrest in 2014, and hired new ones, because of the corruption and brutality against protesters. Previous to that, former Soviet republic of Georgia did something similar. Both did fine. Police needs to submit to reforms or face the consequences.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Since the break-up of the Soviet Union, Georgia had been known for its levels of corruption, especially in its police force. As a result of the ‘Rose Revolution’ of 2003, the government began a process of reform by sacking all the existing police and creating a smaller force of new recruits, with the help of the international community. The reformed police force became one of the most well-regarded institutions in the country.
Police is a service provider, not our masters, if they become too arrogant provide bad service, or are too expensive, they can and should be replaced. I recommend Minneapolis hire former Georgia president who conducted this transformative reform, Mikhail Saakashvili as an advisor.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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The Camden NJ city police were disbanded several years ago & reorganized under the County. The union, the contract & past practice went right out the window. They've since re-unionized, but things aren't the same. They're actually better. Maybe a hard reset is what it will take for Minneapolis.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
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The Camden NJ city police were disbanded several years ago & reorganized under the County. The union, the contract & past practice went right out the window. They've since re-unionized, but things aren't the same. They're actually better. Maybe a hard reset is what it will take for Minneapolis.
Loads of evidence to suggest Hennepin County is also racist.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,499
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OK OK, Relax. woolfe isn't an idiot. What question do you think springs to mind when you hear "defund and dismantle the police department"? I think he started the post to discuss what I personally assume would be most people's reactions to it. I think the human brain is wired to scan for danger which is why I said 'Squirt Guns'.
 

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