What is the deal with Intel's X38 and SLI Support?

[bamacre]

The article on Anandtech seems to say that they will not support SLI via drivers.

But then, I was looking over Dell's new Precision T3400 Workstation, running on the new X38 chipset, and they are offering SLI with Quadro cards.

Is this just something they have worked out with Dell?

It is worth mentioning that Dell also offers SLI Quadro cards on their Precision 690 which has an Intel 5000X chipset.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Dell is using a custom build BIOS (they always do), and that is the reason they support SLI. The only reason Intel does not have SLI is because they do not want to support the BIOS settings that are needed to make it work. Dell decided that they wanted to support SLI on the Intel motherboards because they could get a better deal (i.e. more profit) on the Intel motherboard, and since they already always put their own custom BIOS on every motherboard, it was not that much more difficult for them to add in the SLI support.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Fallen Kell
Dell is using a custom build BIOS (they always do), and that is the reason they support SLI. The only reason Intel does not have SLI is because they do not want to support the BIOS settings that are needed to make it work. Dell decided that they wanted to support SLI on the Intel motherboards because they could get a better deal (i.e. more profit) on the Intel motherboard, and since they already always put their own custom BIOS on every motherboard, it was not that much more difficult for them to add in the SLI support.

I see, I think.

So, could other motherboard makers do the same thing Dell is doing?

 

[xocoatl]

Read the information about INtel's v8 project known as Skulltrail and Bonetrail. From what I have read, Intel is supposed to add MCP chips from Nvidia to get SLI working on this system.

Skull trail @ Wikipedia

Skulltrail here on AT.

 

[JAG87]

Originally posted by: Fallen Kell
Dell is using a custom build BIOS (they always do), and that is the reason they support SLI. The only reason Intel does not have SLI is because they do not want to support the BIOS settings that are needed to make it work. Dell decided that they wanted to support SLI on the Intel motherboards because they could get a better deal (i.e. more profit) on the Intel motherboard, and since they already always put their own custom BIOS on every motherboard, it was not that much more difficult for them to add in the SLI support.

You couldn't be more wrong. It has nothing to do with bios and all to do with drivers. There is a database of supported motherboards in the drivers, and if your motherboard matches SLI is possible, otherwise you cannot enable it. Thats pretty much it.

By putting the MCP100 on Skulltrail boards, the drivers recognize the motherboard within their database of approved SLI boards, and enable SLI in the control panel. Its that simple, nothing to do with bios. X38 is not within the databse, and so aren't all other intel chipsets. While all nforce chipsets and MCP100 are. Thats how SLI works, and how nvidia makes money, until someone gets pissed off enough and hacks their drivers again, like it already happened.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: JAG87

Originally posted by: Fallen Kell
Dell is using a custom build BIOS (they always do), and that is the reason they support SLI. The only reason Intel does not have SLI is because they do not want to support the BIOS settings that are needed to make it work. Dell decided that they wanted to support SLI on the Intel motherboards because they could get a better deal (i.e. more profit) on the Intel motherboard, and since they already always put their own custom BIOS on every motherboard, it was not that much more difficult for them to add in the SLI support.

You couldn't be more wrong. It has nothing to do with bios and all to do with drivers. There is a database of supported motherboards in the drivers, and if your motherboard matches SLI is possible, otherwise you cannot enable it. Thats pretty much it.

By putting the MCP100 on Skulltrail boards, the drivers recognize the motherboard within their database of approved SLI boards, and enable SLI in the control panel. Its that simple, nothing to do with bios. X38 is not within the databse, and so aren't all other intel chipsets. While all nforce chipsets and MCP100 are. Thats how SLI works, and how nvidia makes money, until someone gets pissed off enough and hacks their drivers again, like it already happened.

So, Nvidia's SLI drivers will read that it is a Dell T3400 and will support it even though it is an X38 motherboard?

 

[JAG87]

I dont know who told you what but the Dell T3400 does not support GeForce SLI.

Yes it supports Quadro SLI, but there is no platform limitation on Quadro SLI, you can run Quadro SLI on any platform. GeForce SLI is platform limited.

People have to stop getting confused between Quadro SLI and GeForce SLI, its two completely different things, and thats why there are Quadro drivers and GeForce drivers.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: JAG87
I dont know who told you what but the Dell T3400 does not support GeForce SLI.

Yes it supports Quadro SLI, but there is no platform limitation on Quadro SLI, you can run Quadro SLI on any platform. GeForce SLI is platform limited.

People have to stop getting confused between Quadro SLI and GeForce SLI, its two completely different things, and thats why there are Quadro drivers and GeForce drivers.

Oh I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

I guess since their profit margin is so freakin' high on quadro cards, they don't want to make Quadro SLI platform limited.

 

[BernardP]

To try to reply to the original question.

From what I have read and AFAIK, the problem lies with NVidia who doesn't want the Intel chipset to support SLI. NVidia wants SLI users to buy a motherboard with NVidia chipset.

The funny thing is that the Intel chipset does support Crossfire, as AMD/ATI doesn't impose the same limitations on Crossfire as NVidia does on SLI.

The net result is that the Intel platform favors its competitor AMD.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: BernardP
To try to reply to the original question.

From what I have read and AFAIK, the problem lies with NVidia who doesn't want the Intel chipset to support SLI. NVidia wants SLI users to buy a motherboard with NVidia chipset.

The funny thing is that the Intel chipset does support Crossfire, as AMD/ATI doesn't impose the same limitations on Crossfire as NVidia does on SLI.

The net result is that the Intel platform favors its competitor AMD.

Exactly, ironic, huh?

Maybe Intel should make a deal with Nvidia. Drop support for CF, which hurts AMD, and get support for SLI.

But I think a deal like that won't happen until AMD/ATI actually has something that can compete with Nvidia's high-end GPU's.

Nvidia doesn't have problems selling GPU's at the moment. But the 965P and now P35/X38 chipsets certainly compete well against Nvidia's 680i. I guess without a monopoly on SLI, 680i is just a bad choice.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: BernardP
To try to reply to the original question.

From what I have read and AFAIK, the problem lies with NVidia who doesn't want the Intel chipset to support SLI. NVidia wants SLI users to buy a motherboard with NVidia chipset.

The funny thing is that the Intel chipset does support Crossfire, as AMD/ATI doesn't impose the same limitations on Crossfire as NVidia does on SLI.

The net result is that the Intel platform favors its competitor AMD.

Doesn't it also steal a possible sale away from AMD's CPU line though. It's not like AM2 CPUs are going to work with an Intel chipset.

 

[JAG87]

It doesn't steal anything, because Intel does not "support" Crossfire. Crossfire works on Intel chipsets like it works on nvidia chipsets because there is no driver limitation. SLI would work too, but nvidia has to save its chipset market somehow right?

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: JAG87
It doesn't steal anything, because Intel does not "support" Crossfire. Crossfire works on Intel chipsets like it works on nvidia chipsets because there is no driver limitation. SLI would work too, but nvidia has to save its chipset market somehow right?

Seriously, like I'm going to choose an i680 board over a P35 or X38. If nVidia wants to keep playing this game (no SLI on anything but their boards), then they'll just be losing out on potential nVidia card sales, at least as far as I'm concerned.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: JAG87
It doesn't steal anything, because Intel does not "support" Crossfire. Crossfire works on Intel chipsets like it works on nvidia chipsets because there is no driver limitation. SLI would work too, but nvidia has to save its chipset market somehow right?

Seriously, like I'm going to choose an i680 board over a P35 or X38. If nVidia wants to keep playing this game (no SLI on anything but their boards), then they'll just be losing out on potential nVidia card sales, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, but if P35 and X38 supported SLI, who in their right mind would buy a 680i board?

They are not having any problems selling their 8800 cards right now because AMD/ATI's cards stink.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: JAG87
It doesn't steal anything, because Intel does not "support" Crossfire. Crossfire works on Intel chipsets like it works on nvidia chipsets because there is no driver limitation.

True. That's what I should have said. Thus we should say that NVidia is actively keeping SLI from working on Intel chipsets. How many $300 cards are not going to be sold by NVidia because they want to sell more of their own $50 chipset? I am not sure this makes sense financially. Unless NVidia figures they are going to take a huge chunk of the chipset market for Intel platforms.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: JAG87
It doesn't steal anything, because Intel does not "support" Crossfire. Crossfire works on Intel chipsets like it works on nvidia chipsets because there is no driver limitation. SLI would work too, but nvidia has to save its chipset market somehow right?

Seriously, like I'm going to choose an i680 board over a P35 or X38. If nVidia wants to keep playing this game (no SLI on anything but their boards), then they'll just be losing out on potential nVidia card sales, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, but if P35 and X38 supported SLI, who in their right mind would buy a 680i board?

They are not having any problems selling their 8800 cards right now because AMD/ATI's cards stink.

True.

 

[nitromullet]

This whole thing with X38 not being SLI compatible really is disappointing... No reason to buy an X38 board over a P35 board now, unless you want to run Crossfire.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: BernardP

Originally posted by: JAG87
It doesn't steal anything, because Intel does not "support" Crossfire. Crossfire works on Intel chipsets like it works on nvidia chipsets because there is no driver limitation.

True. That's what I should have said. Thus we should say that NVidia is actively keeping SLI from working on Intel chipsets. How many $300 cards are not going to be sold by NVidia because they want to sell more of their own $50 chipset? I am not sure this makes sense financially. Unless NVidia figures they are going to take a huge chunk of the chipset market for Intel platforms.

nVidia chipset business is expanding something like 200% a year. It doesn't make as much $$$ as the gpu side but (oh, The Horror!) the world is not beating down their door to buy 8800gtx's . . .

ATI has (temporarily, let's hope) given nVidia the high end and decided to fight on price on the lower end - just not enough money to be made on the high end . . . .

AMD will (hopefully soon) be fighting nVidia on the chipset side , too, with performance platforms . . .

 

[JackBurton]

The best of both worlds is, X38 chipset using hacked SLI drivers.

 

[McCartney]

problem is jack those hacks don't support 8 series, only 7(for hte x38)\

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: McCartney
problem is jack those hacks don't support 8 series, only 7(for hte x38)\

Well that definitely does suck.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: BernardP

Originally posted by: JAG87
It doesn't steal anything, because Intel does not "support" Crossfire. Crossfire works on Intel chipsets like it works on nvidia chipsets because there is no driver limitation.

True. That's what I should have said. Thus we should say that NVidia is actively keeping SLI from working on Intel chipsets. How many $300 cards are not going to be sold by NVidia because they want to sell more of their own $50 chipset? I am not sure this makes sense financially. Unless NVidia figures they are going to take a huge chunk of the chipset market for Intel platforms.

Nvidia doesn't sell the actual cards, so I bet the profit difference between a GPU and a chipset is somewhat less than you think.