What is so morally wrong about a state lottery here in NC?

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AvesPKS

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
4,729
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Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Gambling takes advantage of the poor and those whose don't understand mathematics (stupid) the most. Sure it's Voluntary but if your addicted it's hard.

So is getting addicted to alcohol and cigarettes. Don't see them being banned around here...especially cigarettes (being that we're the tobacco state). Self control should come into play at some point IMHO.

Hmm? I guess you haven't been to Maryland lately...the governer's trying to turn us into the "Smoke-Free State". It's a little ridiculous, considering we've been growing tobacco here for 400 years.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
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Originally posted by: Tominator
When we got a lottery in Illinois it was claimed to be the way to get out of our budget crunch. As usual all it did was give the politicians more money to squander.

We need to encourage people to save their money and work had to get it and NOT to spend it on a get-rich-quik scheme!
Depends on how the proceeds from the lottery are earmarked. Here in GA, the state lottery funds HOPE scholarships for the children of state residents. Eligible students can attend state schools (UGA and GA Tech among them) almost for free. I think it's great.



Georgia's HOPE Scholarship
In September 1993, Georgia instituted a lottery-funded college scholarship for the purpose of "Helping Outstanding Pupils Educationally" (HOPE). Since then, over $1.4 billion has been distributed to almost 600,000 students through the HOPE Scholarship, making it the largest state-financed, merit-based aid program in the US. President Clinton designated it as the model for the federal HOPE tuition tax credit, and over a dozen states have established similar versions of the scholarship program.

There are two separate components of the HOPE program, the merit-based scholarship and the HOPE Grant. Eligibility for the former depends on a student's high-school grade-point average, while the latter applies to non-degree programs at 2-year and less-than-2-year schools and has no merit requirements. An income cap of $66,000 was imposed in the first year of the program. The cap was raised to $100,000 the following year and eliminated entirely thereafter.

To qualify for the scholarship, an entering freshman must have graduated from an eligible Georgia high school since 1993 with at least a "B" (3.0 grade-point) average and be a Georgia resident. For HOPE Scholars in degree-granting public institutions, the program covers tuition, HOPE-approved mandatory fees and a book allowance. The value of the award is about $3500 for the 2000-01 academic year. HOPE Scholars in private, degree-granting institutions receive a standard award of $3000 per academic year toward tuition. To retain their scholarships, students must maintain a 3.0 grade-point average while in college.

In contrast, the HOPE Grant is essentially an entitlement. Qualification does not depend on high-school grade-point average. There are no restrictions based on when a student graduated from high school. Even students who graduated before 1993 are eligible as long as they meet the Georgia residency requirements. The grant covers tuition and HOPE-approved mandatory fees and students may receive it for all coursework required by the institution for a program of study leading to a certificate or diploma. Continued support under the grant is contingent on a student's satisfactory academic performance, which is determined by the individual institution.

The HOPE Scholarship is funded entirely by revenue from the Georgia lottery, administered by the Georgia Lottery Corporation. This corporation is legally required to allocate 51 percent of its revenues to players in winnings and 35 percent of its revenue to education. The remaining 14 percent is split between retailers and operating expenses.





 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
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Hey faust. Do you think this hope scholarship puts heavy parental and external pressure on teachers to pass students with a B or better? Grade inflation is already a problem IMO.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
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Actually if you consider the lottery as a voluntary tax it's not a bad idea is it? And it's a way for the poor to contribute their fair share. You see it's just a matter of perspective.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Hey faust. Do you think this hope scholarship puts heavy parental and external pressure on teachers to pass students with a B or better? Grade inflation is already a problem IMO.
Maybe to some degree, but I wouldn't say that it's all that big an issue here in GA since the state of education is pretty much in the crapper already(last in the nation in SAT scores as you may recall). If anything, the HOPE scholarships entice kids who are well beyond the minimum qualifications to stay in state when they would have otherwise gone elsewhere. As for the rest of them, I think it's almost a bigger issue just to get them to even finish high school....much less go on to college, so I just don't see there being that much pressure on the teacher to inflate grades.

One article I found on the subject.

Another one

A opposing view on the matter (PDF, sorry)

If you do a google search for "hope grade inflation georgia", you'll find innumerable articles and opinions.

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
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i loved it when i walked into a class on the first day and the professor announced that he was fighting the good fight against grade inflation
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
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Originally posted by: Tominator
When we got a lottery in Illinois it was claimed to be the way to get out of our budget crunch. As usual all it did was give the politicians more money to squander.

We need to encourage people to save their money and work had to get it and NOT to spend it on a get-rich-quik scheme!

i got an idea, why dont you mind your own business when it comes to people spending their own disposable income.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Hey faust. Do you think this hope scholarship puts heavy parental and external pressure on teachers to pass students with a B or better? Grade inflation is already a problem IMO.
Maybe to some degree, but I wouldn't say that it's all that big an issue here in GA since the state of education is pretty much in the crapper already(last in the nation in SAT scores as you may recall). If anything, the HOPE scholarships entice kids who are well beyond the minimum qualifications to stay in state when they would have otherwise gone elsewhere. As for the rest of them, I think it's almost a bigger issue just to get them to even finish high school....much less go on to college, so I just don't see there being that much pressure on the teacher to inflate grades.

One article I found on the subject.

Another one

A opposing view on the matter (PDF, sorry)

If you do a google search for "hope grade inflation georgia", you'll find innumerable articles and opinions.


Interesting links. I've always liked the bell curve system. I got a 40 once on a Pchem final and it was an A :)

Some say that's grade inflation too. Everyone in that class should hae failed then:)
 

Dudd

Platinum Member
Aug 3, 2001
2,865
0
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Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: Tominator
When we got a lottery in Illinois it was claimed to be the way to get out of our budget crunch. As usual all it did was give the politicians more money to squander.

We need to encourage people to save their money and work had to get it and NOT to spend it on a get-rich-quik scheme!

i got an idea, why dont you mind your own business when it comes to people spending their own disposable income.

The government doesn't need to be in the business of taking people's money. Nowhere in the constitution does it say that people have a right to a government sponsered lottery. Now, if you want to argue that the government shouldn't restrict any form of gambling, that's a whole nother topic.

 

Maetryx

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
4,849
1
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I wonder if these faceless poor folks appreciate all the concern some of you guys have for them. I wonder if the witless want someone else to be an activist on their behalf and protect them from "wrong life lessons" that they may otherwise unwittingly learn from the existence of various government tax programs. I wonder who gets to decide who's smart enough to be the protector.

What self righteous elitist bullsh!t.

Lottery revenues can be used efficiently or not by politicians, just like any other tax. Only this one is voluntary. And I'm in favor of that.
 

Dudd

Platinum Member
Aug 3, 2001
2,865
0
0
Originally posted by: Maetryx

WTF do you think a tax is?

Hehe, I stepped right into that one. What I meant to say was that the government doesn't need to be in the business of taking money from those too stupid to realize that their chances of winning the lottery are very close to zero. Taxes are fair, you make this amount of money, you pay this percentage. The lottery, on the other hand, preys upon those with the least to lose. I'm all for personal responsibilty, but the state does not need to be in the business of duping people into handing over their money when, in most cases, they receive nothing in return.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: Maetryx
I wonder if these faceless poor folks appreciate all the concern some of you guys have for them. I wonder if the witless want someone else to be an activist on their behalf and protect them from "wrong life lessons" that they may otherwise unwittingly learn from the existence of various government tax programs. I wonder who gets to decide who's smart enough to be the protector.

What self righteous elitist bullsh!t.

Lottery revenues can be used efficiently or not by politicians, just like any other tax. Only this one is voluntary. And I'm in favor of that.
'

Read the thread title. MORALLY it's wrong to us.

 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
Originally posted by: Dudd
Originally posted by: Maetryx

WTF do you think a tax is?

Hehe, I stepped right into that one. What I meant to say was that the government doesn't need to be in the business of taking money from those too stupid to realize that their chances of winning the lottery are very close to zero. Taxes are fair, you make this amount of money, you pay this percentage. The lottery, on the other hand, preys upon those with the least to lose. I'm all for personal responsibilty, but the state does not need to be in the business of duping people into handing over their money when, in most cases, they receive nothing in return.

What about the high tax people stupid enough to buy cigarettes endure?? The government takes their money, then all they receive in return is lung cancer, bad breath, and yellow teeth. How fair is that? :D


**No offense to you smokers out there** :p:p
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Dudd
Originally posted by: Maetryx

WTF do you think a tax is?

Hehe, I stepped right into that one. What I meant to say was that the government doesn't need to be in the business of taking money from those too stupid to realize that their chances of winning the lottery are very close to zero. Taxes are fair, you make this amount of money, you pay this percentage. The lottery, on the other hand, preys upon those with the least to lose. I'm all for personal responsibilty, but the state does not need to be in the business of duping people into handing over their money when, in most cases, they receive nothing in return.

What about the high tax people stupid enough to buy cigarettes endure?? The government takes their money, then all they receive in return is lung cancer, bad breath, and yellow teeth. How fair is that? :D


**No offense to you smokers out there** :p:p


On top ofthat, since they die about 5-7 years soon, they also get cheated out of big chunk of SS benefits.