What is Obama waiting for? LET'S GET OUT!

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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The Left and the Right and everyone in between knows that Afghanistan is a cluster. We have no support from the government, little from the people and we're dying. Obama does manage to apologize for the burning of a Qur'an which prisoners had desecrated themselves and burned at the direction of an Imam.

We're hated more every day, there is no chance of "winning" now, we're dying instead.

What is the hold up? Stubbornness, stupidity, he doesn't want to upset the election? There is no good reason for being there now.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
What is Obama waiting for? LET'S GET OUT!

The Left and the Right and everyone in between knows that Afghanistan is a cluster. We have no support from the government, little from the people and we're dying. Obama does manage to apologize for the burning of a Qur'an which prisoners had desecrated themselves and burned at the direction of an Imam.

We're hated more every day, there is no chance of "winning" now, we're dying instead.

What is the hold up? Stubbornness, stupidity, he doesn't want to upset the election? There is no good reason for being there now.

He is just carrying on a tradition that the U.S. must always be engaged in a false war spending trillions in the middle east.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
-snip-
What is the hold up?

While these recent events naturally inspire calls for immediate pull-out, I suspect any decision to do so will require a lot of thought. And I mean practical decisions. So, were talking re-figuring strategy and goals, talking with the military, and talking/coordinating with allies involved.

Then there's the political calculations. If Obama is going to call a withdraw he'll be looking a graceful way, something to mute, as much as possible, the inevitable political criticism.

Fern
 

Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
1,081
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0
+1000 OP

President Obama should start pulling out the troops now. He should have done it a while ago as far as im concerned. Let those animals kill eachother till eternity if they want.
 

woodie1

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2000
5,947
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It does seem that all the money wasted on Afghanistan could be put to better use. Much of the money sent to the ME is for naught IMHO.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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So he's a neocon too eh?
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As I give a different answer than Jaslalas that I hope puts Obama in a no better light than a Necon.

As we can flash back to Donald Dumsfeld who maintained he was so smart, he need not follow the slam dunk military experiences of every war college on earth, that a military occupation of any country on earth always takes at least 1 trooper per 50 in population to have any chance of "sucess".

Which in Afghanistan would takes some 620,000 Nato troops and in Iraq would take some 500,000 troops. Watch Donald Dumsfeld fire General Sinseki for pointing out that truth. Which sent a chilling message to the US military, either say can do Mr. Defense sec, or end your military career. But still that other Donald was 50% correct, the US military is so damn good, as they won in Iraq in only two weeks even if chasing out the Taliban out of Afghanistan took longer.

But therein lies the rub, that first 50% is only the pushy tactics of any door to door salesman trying to get their foot into the door so they can make their sales pitch. And when the local people decide said US salesman is a lying sack of shit in trying to sell ice boxes to Eskimo's we in the USA are amazed that the people of Vietnam, the people of Iraq, and the people of Afghanistan won't buy our stuff because we brought no progress and only perpetual anarchy.

When the historical lesson of all past military occupations is go big or stay at home.

Tattoo, the Obama fantasy is that Obama can use GWB tactics and not get GWB results. When the entire track record of GWB and Obama in Afghanistan has been negative Kazan, as each and every years brings the USA further away from winning in Afghanistan. Its bad enough when the USA can't win a beauty contest with the Taliban, as we wait to grasp fifth place when we add in Al-Quida and thuggery of the Karzia government.

But cheer up, we have a new sec of defense, in Leon pinhead, who just like Robert MacNamera in Vietnam sees light at the end of the tunnel. At least the love boat fantasy has only two years left before its supposed to jump the shark, before someone in the USA finally admits its time to get out humiliated but has the genius to declare we have peace with honor again.

And on that basis we will forever fail to learn the lesson, that in any military occupation, one must go big or stay at home. Rinse and repeat for the USA until we finally succeed in bankrupting our economy. And no longer have the capacity to engage in stupidity.

Is that what it will take for our US economy to finally start recovering?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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While these recent events naturally inspire calls for immediate pull-out, I suspect any decision to do so will require a lot of thought. And I mean practical decisions. So, were talking re-figuring strategy and goals, talking with the military, and talking/coordinating with allies involved.

Then there's the political calculations. If Obama is going to call a withdraw he'll be looking a graceful way, something to mute, as much as possible, the inevitable political criticism.

Fern

Let's declare victory and withdraw. There ought to be movement now because the sooner we get out the better we'll be. Karzai cares about Karzai. He'll sell out to the Taliban if we stay a month or ten years. The difference? More dead the longer we stay. What won't change? Things fall apart no matter how many die. The chance to make a change was over when we went to Iraq.
 

ky54

Senior member
Mar 30, 2010
532
1
76
I'm still waiting for Obama to nuke Pakistan like he promised during the campaign. I see no valid reason to not tuck tail and run like Reagan did in Lebanon. That worked so well why not Obama do it too.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
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Don't the Catholics consider pulling out a sin? After the whole birth control thing he probably doesn't want to give them anymore ammo to say he is fighting a war against Christians.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pres...roop-withdrawal-afghanistan/story?id=13908291

Obama Orders Start to US Troop Withdrawal From Afghanistan

By JIM SCIUTTO (@jimsciuttoABC) , MARY BRUCE (@marykbruce) and DEVIN DWYER (@devindwyer)
June 22, 2011
President Obama has ordered the U.S. military to withdraw 10,000 troops from Afghanistan by the end of the year and pull out another 23,000 by the summer of 2012, part of what he called "the beginning, but not the end, of our effort to wind down this war."

"After this initial reduction, our troops will continue coming home at a steady pace as Afghan security forces move into the lead," Obama said in a primetime address to the nation Wednesday night from the East Room of the White House. "By 2014, this process of transition will be complete, and the Afghan people will be responsible for their own security."

The president said his announcement was a fulfillment of a commitment he made in December 2009 when he authorized a surge of 30,000 U.S. forces into Afghanistan. At the time, he also promised to begin a drawdown in July 2011.

The withdrawal of 33,000 troops by next summer effectively brings home all the "surge" troops he deployed leaving roughly 70,000 behind.

Obama argued that the U.S. has made progress on many goals: disrupting and dismantling al Qaeda and inflicting "serious losses" on the Taliban.

"We have put al Qaeda on a path to defeat, and we will not relent until the job is done," he said.

Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP PhotoPresident Barack Obama delivers a televised... View Full Size Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP PhotoPresident Barack Obama delivers a televised address from the East Room of the White House in Washington on June 22, 2011 on his plan to withdraw U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
Afghanistan Troop Withdrawal: Obama Outlines Plan Watch Video
'Starting Drawdown From Position of Strength' Watch Video
'Time to Focus on Nation Building Here at Home' Watch Video
The president said the U.S. goal in Afghanistan was not to "try to make Afghanistan a perfect place," but to ensure it will never be a safe haven for terrorists -- a goal that he stopped short from declaring achieved.

Still, in a nod to the war-weary public and his congressional critics, Obama said it is now "time to focus on national building here at home."

"Over the last decade, we have spent $1 trillion on war at a time of rising debt and hard economic times," he said. "Now, we must invest in America's greatest resource -- our people."

All told, the war in Afghanistan has cost taxpayers more than an estimated $443 billion, according to the Congressional Research Service, and the lives of at least 1,523 U.S. military service members.

According to the latest ABC News polling, 73 percent of Americans say the United States should withdraw a substantial number of U.S. combat forces from Afghanistan this summer. Yet far fewer, 43 percent, think that will happen.

Americans also question the long-term impact of America's presence in Afghanistan. Fifty-seven percent say the war has contributed to the long-term security of the United States. But far fewer, 25 percent, say it has contributed "a great deal," which is the kind of payback many want to see, given the war's steep price tag. The United States has spent roughly $112 billion in Afghanistan this year alone.

The pace and scope of Obama's withdrawal strategy has put him at odds with the recommendation of the military and some Republicans.

Sen. John McCain, a leading supporter of the war effort, said earlier this week he would be "very reluctant to reduce the surge troops capability" in Afghanistan and that they should remain for at least one more fighting season in order to "get this thing pretty much wrapped up."

Even Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who is set to retire at the end of the month, said earlier this week that he was concerned the gains in Afghanistan were "very fragile" and subject to reverse.

Tonight, however, Gates endorsed the president's strategy, saying it will work.

"Over the past 18 months, our troops have made tremendous progress degrading the capability of the Taliban while enhancing the Afghan security forces. It is critical that we continue to aggressively prosecute that strategy," he said. "I support the president's decision because it provides our commanders with enough resources, time and, perhaps most importantly, flexibility to bring the surge to a successful conclusion."

Afghanistan Troop Withdrawal: Obama Outlines Plan Watch Video
'Starting Drawdown From Position of Strength' Watch Video
'Time to Focus on Nation Building Here at Home' Watch Video
On the front lines, many U.S. service members contacted by ABC News said they remain determined towards the same goal.

"We're here to do one thing: We're here to win, and that's what we did, we won," said Sgt. Mendez of the No Slack Battalion, 101st Airborne Division, who did not want to give his first name. "It's going on a decade we've been fighting this war. ... I don't see us getting out of here anytime soon. But we are making a difference, we are taking it to the enemy now."
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Don't the Catholics consider pulling out a sin? After the whole birth control thing he probably doesn't want to give them anymore ammo to say he is fighting a war against Christians.
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Well I see the humor in the Darwin contention, what do we call Catholics who believe in pull out birth control methods other than parents. But God loves so many more children to save and also more military quagmires to try our souls
That inspire the peoples faith in the end times and the rapture. Keep it up boys and girls, stay stuck on stupid, and we too can inspire the end times the second coming of Jesus.

But what happens to neocons and Israel if ole JC decides to side with the Palestinians instead? After all the Jewish religious authorities condemned Jesus to death the first time, why should Jesus side with them now in his second coming. As the religious parables of Jesus included the tale of the good Samartin, a modern tale of universal love that might equate an ancient Semartin to a present day Palestinian.

As we lose sight of the two Jesus Christ missions, universal love of all people and driving the money changers out of the temple.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
He's holding out until after the election, to avoid being called a sell-out, an appeaser, a terrarist-coddler, and a sekrit mooslim collaborator with Al Qaeda...

Repubs are desperate for talking points & "issues", so they'd fling their own poo if that was all they had...

He's not giving them any ammunition.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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He's holding out until after the election, to avoid being called a sell-out, an appeaser, a terrarist-coddler, and a sekrit mooslim collaborator with Al Qaeda...

Repubs are desperate for talking points & "issues", so they'd fling their own poo if that was all they had...

He's not giving them any ammunition.

So it's your opinion that he's going to let people get killed so he can get reelected.
 

DrewSG3

Senior member
Feb 7, 2005
366
48
91
If Obama were to pull out the troops after the election, I'd forgive him for everything he's done
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
So it's your opinion that he's going to let people get killed so he can get reelected.

Not at all. There's been a timetable in effect for some while, and he's sticking to it.

He wouldn't want to be a flipflopper either, huh?

It's not like he invaded Afghanistan, or that he botched the occupation & reconstruction from the get-go, either. That dubious honor belongs to somebody else.

Or is this All Obama's Fault! like everything else?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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Not at all. There's been a timetable in effect for some while, and he's sticking to it.

He wouldn't want to be a flipflopper either, huh?

It's not like he invaded Afghanistan, or that he botched the occupation & reconstruction from the get-go, either. That dubious honor belongs to somebody else.

Or is this All Obama's Fault! like everything else?

If he's delaying because of political considerations then that is his fault and his alone. Now is that acceptable to you?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,763
10,066
136
Jhhnn, some men live to serve their nation and not themselves. Obama could take a lesson from our military. He could start by saving their lives, and should have done it the day he was sworn in. He can still do it today.

That he won't is self serving at the cost of blood and coin.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
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We can (and probably should) get out, but if they sponsor terrorists again, we're just going to have to bomb the beejeezus out of them. I wonder if it might make sense to maintain a heavily guarded and secured base and to have no interaction with the people. That way we can quickly bomb he Taliban and Al Quada or whoever we need to bomb from it.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
136
Well you can bash Obama all you want about getting out, when and how.
But if any of the republicans running get in, we will all be up to our crappers in war and new war.
U can take that to the bank!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Well you can bash Obama all you want about getting out, when and how.
But if any of the republicans running get in, we will all be up to our crappers in war and new war.
U can take that to the bank!

Well, yeh, of course. We should get out of Afghanistan so we can go to war someplace else, like Iran. The purpose of war isn't to defend ourselves, or even to win, but rather to wage war perpetually as a means of domestic political control... and to dispose of excess production while creating scarcity. That reinforces the social & political order.