What is more annoying: 8 dead pixels on a 17" LCD or 2 horizontal lines on a 19" ApertureGrill CRT?
- Thread starter Samsonid
- Start date
Dead pixels are the worst, because they are more than just black - sometimes they are green or red, as on my friend's LCD. The two lines are almost invisible on white and are definitely not visible on any dark background or in games.
I was able to fix all 2 dead pixels on my laptop's LCD by gently massaging the area of the dead pixel. I don't know what happened, but dead pixels became first very vague, then completely disappeared.
dead pixels unless they are all at or near the very outside...are you going to rma it??? I would think that is way beyond their tolerances...
Thanks to all in this thread for casting your vote!
In responce to the people that mentioned about the horizontal lines being "normal" on AG displays.
Please allow me to ponder the definition of the word "normal" as it applies to this particular issue:
Apperture Grill "Normal" = The CRT manufacturers have encountered a technical limitation that cannot be surpassed in a satisfactory manner and thus it was necessary to plea for an aggreement with the world's consumer population to accept the apperture grill technology dispite the unavoidable technological limitation.
Since the consumer base has aggreed, and is aware, of this flaw well before the point of purchase there is a reasonable level of tolerance (understanding) so that the two horizontal lines can safely be refered to as "Normal".
However, as far as I am concearned, both horizontal lines and dead pixels are "obstructions" (blemises) to the purity of an ideally spotless monitor screen.
In responce to the people that mentioned about the horizontal lines being "normal" on AG displays.
Please allow me to ponder the definition of the word "normal" as it applies to this particular issue:
Apperture Grill "Normal" = The CRT manufacturers have encountered a technical limitation that cannot be surpassed in a satisfactory manner and thus it was necessary to plea for an aggreement with the world's consumer population to accept the apperture grill technology dispite the unavoidable technological limitation.
Since the consumer base has aggreed, and is aware, of this flaw well before the point of purchase there is a reasonable level of tolerance (understanding) so that the two horizontal lines can safely be refered to as "Normal".
However, as far as I am concearned, both horizontal lines and dead pixels are "obstructions" (blemises) to the purity of an ideally spotless monitor screen.
I beleive I read back awhile ago these manufacturers have devised what they felt was a statisfactory or exceptable number of dead pixels before it was considered defective...Check on that...I heard the up to 3 dead pixels on lcd of dig cameras was considered within specs by a few makers...So who knows with these monitors...MOre pixels more exceptable to be dead, or since the lcd on camera is not always intended to be sole visual use to see pcitures its purpose it somewhat lessened then a monitor you view all the time...
Also if it came with that many or if it has been adding them over a brief period may also be a factor
Also if it came with that many or if it has been adding them over a brief period may also be a factor
Mem
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2000
- 21,476
- 13
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<< However, as far as I am concearned, both horizontal lines and dead pixels are "obstructions" (blemises) to the purity of an ideally spotless monitor screen. >>
That`s why I went and brought a LG Flatron 915FT plus monitor(no wires) ,I don`t like the AG wires on AG tubes.
As a matter of fact I have neither an LCD nor a AG CRT monitor.
But I do have to purchase a high quality monitor (for CAD/CAM illustration) within the next week.
The problem is that my eyes are more sensitive to a flickering display than most people. Even at 80Hz I will develop CVS (computer vision syndrome) symptoms, such as headache within 2-3hours of use. All other possible causes of eyestrain have been addressed, such as ambient illumination, position of monitor, proper settings of monitor etc...
The only options for me are a very fast, high end, CRT or an LCD.
The LCD option seams a little more attractive because it eliminates the flickering issue all together.
Ok, here is the "meat".
After being on the phone today for several hours, I contacted the Technical support of a few LCD manufacturers (PHILIPS, NEC/MITSUBISHI, APPLE and VIEWSONIC) and asked them to explain their policy for Dead Pixels.
-On a side note, Philips technical support was the easiest to get a hold of and the technician was the most informative. Second was Apple, then NEC and last was the Viewsonic. (With Viewsonic I had to wait 30min to talk to someone)
1. Philips will replace the LCD if a)there are more than 10 Bright Pixels, b) there are 3pairs of dead pixels, c)3 dead pixels stuck next to each other, d)2 pairs of dead pixels within 8mm from each other, e)more than 4 dead pixels within a 20mm circle
2. Viewsonic was brief about this issue, all they said was they will replace the LCD if there are 10 or more Dead pixels.
3. Apple was a little less clear. The technician suggested that I should look online, since the dead pixel issue is "standardized" throughout the industry and all manufacturers are required to observe the same minimum standards. However, he did mention something to the sort that Apple would replace an LCD when there are 2 dead pixels within a 25mm from each other and if there is one instance of 2 adjacent dead pixels.
4.NEC was also brief about this issue. They will replace an LCD if there are 11 or more scattered dead pixels, or 3 dead pixels stuck next to each other.
I was going to call a few more companies but I postponed it for Monday.
Now, in regards to a CRT. Any candidate would have to be able to do no less than 100hz at 1152 X 864, which is my resolution of choice for a 19" CRT, (1280 X 1024 is pushing it and I can't pull through a 12hour day without headaches).
The problem is that the high-end, high-refresh CRT models of most manufacturers are Apperture Grills and that's where my dilema comes in (being forced to chose between AG-CRTs or LCDs).
But I do have to purchase a high quality monitor (for CAD/CAM illustration) within the next week.
The problem is that my eyes are more sensitive to a flickering display than most people. Even at 80Hz I will develop CVS (computer vision syndrome) symptoms, such as headache within 2-3hours of use. All other possible causes of eyestrain have been addressed, such as ambient illumination, position of monitor, proper settings of monitor etc...
The only options for me are a very fast, high end, CRT or an LCD.
The LCD option seams a little more attractive because it eliminates the flickering issue all together.
Ok, here is the "meat".
After being on the phone today for several hours, I contacted the Technical support of a few LCD manufacturers (PHILIPS, NEC/MITSUBISHI, APPLE and VIEWSONIC) and asked them to explain their policy for Dead Pixels.
-On a side note, Philips technical support was the easiest to get a hold of and the technician was the most informative. Second was Apple, then NEC and last was the Viewsonic. (With Viewsonic I had to wait 30min to talk to someone)
1. Philips will replace the LCD if a)there are more than 10 Bright Pixels, b) there are 3pairs of dead pixels, c)3 dead pixels stuck next to each other, d)2 pairs of dead pixels within 8mm from each other, e)more than 4 dead pixels within a 20mm circle
2. Viewsonic was brief about this issue, all they said was they will replace the LCD if there are 10 or more Dead pixels.
3. Apple was a little less clear. The technician suggested that I should look online, since the dead pixel issue is "standardized" throughout the industry and all manufacturers are required to observe the same minimum standards. However, he did mention something to the sort that Apple would replace an LCD when there are 2 dead pixels within a 25mm from each other and if there is one instance of 2 adjacent dead pixels.
4.NEC was also brief about this issue. They will replace an LCD if there are 11 or more scattered dead pixels, or 3 dead pixels stuck next to each other.
I was going to call a few more companies but I postponed it for Monday.
Now, in regards to a CRT. Any candidate would have to be able to do no less than 100hz at 1152 X 864, which is my resolution of choice for a 19" CRT, (1280 X 1024 is pushing it and I can't pull through a 12hour day without headaches).
The problem is that the high-end, high-refresh CRT models of most manufacturers are Apperture Grills and that's where my dilema comes in (being forced to chose between AG-CRTs or LCDs).
I hadn't remembered my 700NF's lines for years until I read about them just now. Even then, it took me about 5 seconds to find them.
Even then, it took me about 5 seconds to find them.
Adul
Elite Member
Hey Mem,
Just finished looking at the specs for the LG Flatron 915FT.
It looks very promising. Its one sweet display.
I am confused about one thing though. On one hand it says "No annoying horizontal lines", on the other hand the dot pitch is "0.24mm stripe". If it is a "stripe" it must be an AG, but if so, how come there are no lines? (confused).
Just finished looking at the specs for the LG Flatron 915FT.
It looks very promising. Its one sweet display.
I am confused about one thing though. On one hand it says "No annoying horizontal lines", on the other hand the dot pitch is "0.24mm stripe". If it is a "stripe" it must be an AG, but if so, how come there are no lines? (confused).
You'll find a third scheme in NEC's CromaClear® CRT, Panasonic's PureFlat® CRT, and most TV tubes. These displays use a slot mask--a shadow mask with elongated slots and their phosphors run in vertical stripes, as in a Trinitron® tube. This design yields individual elongated ovals for dots on the screen, which makes the image brighter than a standard dot mask does. Because the mask is a single piece, it doesn't need horizontal wires to hold a grille in place as does the Trinitron®.
Slot-mask CRTs typically measure pitch as stripe pitch--though NEC sometimes calls it mask pitch, which suggests it's being measured at the mask instead of the screen. Note that the slot mask is a little closer to the electron guns than the screen is, which means the slots will be a tad closer together than two phosphor stripes of the same color will. Finally, Hitachi's 19-inch CRT uses an asymmetrical dot mask. The dots on the screen are arranged so that, unlike in a standard dot mask, vertical and diagonal dot pitches are different. The triangle formed by any given dot with the two closest dots of the same color in the line above and below forms an isosceles triangle (with only two equal sides), rather than an equilateral triangle.
http://www.proview.net/dotpitch.htm
Slot-mask CRTs typically measure pitch as stripe pitch--though NEC sometimes calls it mask pitch, which suggests it's being measured at the mask instead of the screen. Note that the slot mask is a little closer to the electron guns than the screen is, which means the slots will be a tad closer together than two phosphor stripes of the same color will. Finally, Hitachi's 19-inch CRT uses an asymmetrical dot mask. The dots on the screen are arranged so that, unlike in a standard dot mask, vertical and diagonal dot pitches are different. The triangle formed by any given dot with the two closest dots of the same color in the line above and below forms an isosceles triangle (with only two equal sides), rather than an equilateral triangle.
http://www.proview.net/dotpitch.htm
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