What is it about PC P&C PSUs that makes them so 'great'?

[Ken90630]

Hey, All,

So I've been reading that other thread about modular PSUs and the interview with PC Power & Cooling's founder. Rather than hijack that thread with my sorta-related question, I thought I'd post it here as a new thread.

I read here awhile back that PC P&C simply buys Forton PSUs, modifies/improves them somehow, then rebadges them. As a result, I have the following questions:

1) Is that true, and are all of their PSUs modified/rebadged Fortrons? If someone says, "yes," mind if I ask where you got that info? I'm not skeptical of this -- I simply would like to know the source (something more than, "I heard from some guy that ....").

2) What exactly is it about PC P&C's PSUs that has resulted in their reputation as some of the best PSUs out there? I mean exactly: Is it higher quality capacitors, or better wiring, bigger or better quality internal heatsinks, or some other superior internal components, better QC, better overall build quality/construction (be specific), more truthful/accurate power ratings, proven long-term reliability, or what? They certainly don't have a lot of 'bling,' so we know it's not that.

3) What specifically does PC P&C do to the PSUs they modify and then rebadge? Anyone know?

I actually called PC P&C a few weeks ago to ask them something else (unrelated). While on the phone with one of their guys, I asked how they were able to make the Silencer series models so quiet. He gave me some technical talk that kinda went over my head (I'm definitely not an electrical engineer), but the gist was that they use certain components that have higher temperature tolerances than most other PSUs. He said this enables the Silencer PSUs to run hotter, and thus PC P&C can get away with using a slower, quieter fan (and only one fan at that) to cool them. Made sense to me, and I didn't feel like I was being fed some marketing hype.

They obviously have more models than just the Silencer series, so my questions above apply to PC P&C's PSUs in general. Anyone have any thoughts/answers? I'd guess I'm prolly not the only person wondering about this.

PS: These PSU threads sometimes descend into flame wars. It would be nice if this one could stay civil. 🙂 If you can't or won't participate in a constructive exchange of ideas without spewing unprovoked hostility or reacting in a hypersensitive way to others' comments, I respectfully ask you to sit this one out. Thank you. 😀

 

[xtknight]

2. Supposedly bigger capacitors, but the Antec NeoPower 480 was just as good in MaximumPC's PSU roundup. I'd say it's all hype and they're overpriced for what they are. Nobody can tell me my opinion is wrong.

 

[Corporate Thug]

1. i do believe PC P and C makes their own PSU
2. apparently bigger caps help in maximizing efficency?

personally, i would take an enermanx liberty over PC P and C any day

much cheaper
99% efficent according to the review i read :shock;
cleaner modular design

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817194003

 

[EatSpam]

I'd take a Zippy/EMACs over a PC&C... significantly cheaper, with equivalent power output and quality.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
1. i do believe PC P and C makes their own PSU
2. apparently bigger caps help in maximizing efficency?

personally, i would take an enermanx liberty over PC P and C any day

much cheaper
99% efficent according to the review i read :shock;
cleaner modular design

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817194003

Ummm 99% efficency....I dont think thats quite possible at room temps...and check your link it even says in the link 80% efficency....

On topic however, have you looked at the Tagan U22 that I have in my room...I've never actually heard the fans on my PSU fire up....ever...it's *that* quiet probably just as powerful as that 510 PCP&C

 

[evilharp]

As I understand it, PC Power and Cooling makes their own PSUs. They started in the mid-80's, and have been working hard ever since.

They earned a really good reputation when overclocking became big. OC demands stable power, and high heat tolerances which is PC P&C's speciality. As most reviews indicate (including the Tom's torture test) the PSUs deliver solid power, with good efficiency and reliability.

One area that PC P&C is big on, is accurate ratings at high operating temperatures (50c). Most PSUs are rated in ideal conditions (outside the case) and their performance degrades as the temps go up. PC P&C is also very honest about the business of PSUs, see: http://www.pcpowercooling.com/technology/

For most users a PC P&C unit may be overkill, but the quality is undisputed. Considering the number of PSU companies (sorry brands, most are built be the same companies) out there, it is surprising that so few are "overbuilt".

 

[Pariah]

1) Is that true, and are all of their PSUs modified/rebadged Fortrons? If someone says, "yes," mind if I ask where you got that info? I'm not skeptical of this -- I simply would like to know the source (something more than, "I heard from some guy that ....").

No, I don't know who the OEM is, but their entry level "Silencer" series appear to be very similar to a line of Seasonic PSU's. The highend Turbo-Cool line is built by them.

2) What exactly is it about PC P&C's PSUs that has resulted in their reputation as some of the best PSUs out there? I mean exactly: Is it higher quality capacitors, or better wiring, bigger or better quality internal heatsinks, or some other superior internal components, better QC, better overall build quality/construction (be specific), more truthful/accurate power ratings, proven long-term reliability, or what?

Pretty much all of those, literally. If you've ever handled a PP&C PSU you will instantly notice how heavy they are compared to more typical PSU's. More weight doesn't necessarily guarantee higher quality, but assuming there isn't just a lead weight in their, it generally means more components as well as larger/higher quality components which usually translates into a higher quality PSU. They are also very conservative, (or maybe honest, depending on your perspective) with their ratings and specs. Comparing them to speaker specs, while many PSU manufaturers use "burst wattage" to rate their PSU's, PP&C uses RMS wattage to rate theirs, meaning their PSU will run at the claimed specs under normal operating conditions and usually even in slightly unfavorable conditions, while other PSU's only hit their specs during ideal (read: pretty much never) conditions. Every test I have seen of them has shown very stable and accurate voltages even when fully loaded.

They also back their Turbo-Cool line with a 5 year warranty which I believe is unique in the PSU market.

3) What specifically does PC P&C do to the PSUs they modify and then rebadge? Anyone know?

I don't know what, if anything, they do to the Silencer line. The component layout looks pretty much identical to whatever Seasonic line it was, I don't remember offhand, though that doesn't mean they are actually identical.

To be honest, PP&C is overkill for the majority of users. They are every bit as good as their reputation says, but unless you are running mission critical servers or the like, the extra money it costs to buy one, is better spent else where. No one needs the ruggedness of a Hummer to commute to the office every day, but some people just get a kick out of spending gobs of money on "status symbol" trinkets.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: Pariah

To be honest, PP&C is overkill for the majority of users. They are every bit as good as their reputation says, but unless you are running mission critical servers or the like, the extra money it costs to buy one, is better spent else where. No one needs the ruggedness of a Hummer to commute to the office every day, but some people just get a kick out of spending gobs of money on "status symbol" trinkets.

I agree.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
1. i do believe PC P and C makes their own PSU
2. apparently bigger caps help in maximizing efficency?

personally, i would take an enermanx liberty over PC P and C any day

much cheaper
99% efficent according to the review i read :shock;
cleaner modular design

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817194003

Ummm 99% efficency....I dont think thats quite possible at room temps...and check your link it even says in the link 80% efficency....

On topic however, have you looked at the Tagan U22 that I have in my room...I've never actually heard the fans on my PSU fire up....ever...it's *that* quiet probably just as powerful as that 510 PCP&C

yes, i understand its says 80% efficent but the review says otherwise

http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/enermax_liberty/index3.shtml

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
1. i do believe PC P and C makes their own PSU
2. apparently bigger caps help in maximizing efficency?

personally, i would take an enermanx liberty over PC P and C any day

much cheaper
99% efficent according to the review i read :shock;
cleaner modular design

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817194003

Ummm 99% efficency....I dont think thats quite possible at room temps...and check your link it even says in the link 80% efficency....

On topic however, have you looked at the Tagan U22 that I have in my room...I've never actually heard the fans on my PSU fire up....ever...it's *that* quiet probably just as powerful as that 510 PCP&C

yes, i understand its says 80% efficent but the review says otherwise

http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/enermax_liberty/index3.shtml

That's obviously an erroneous reading. If the manufacturer is bragging about 80% efficiency on their website, there is absolutely no way in hell that it is actually 99% efficient. I highly, HIGHLY doubt it is even technically feasible to build a PSU much over 90% efficient today, let alone 99%. That's comical.

Here are THG's efficiency measurements for a number of currect PSU's. None even hit 85%:

Live Stress Test - Power Supplies Under Full Load

Should be added, that the Seasonic on the same page they are claiming gets 98% efficiency, is made by the same company that has a page on their website bragging about how their PSU's are up to 80% efficient, not 98%.

Seasonic

"Seaonic has achieved efficiency rates of up to 78% at 120VAC input in the Super series, and up to 80% in the S12 series. This is substantially higher than any other commercially available PC power supply."

Yes, that is a quote from their page, where they happened to misspell their own name.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: Pariah

To be honest, PP&C is overkill for the majority of users. They are every bit as good as their reputation says, but unless you are running mission critical servers or the like, the extra money it costs to buy one, is better spent else where. No one needs the ruggedness of a Hummer to commute to the office every day, but some people just get a kick out of spending gobs of money on "status symbol" trinkets.

I agree.

Agree that it's an overkill for *majority* of users. But I acknowledge its quality. I myself had one and only thing that distracted me from it was noise. The rails were rock solid on whatever load I put through my system. For overclockers who don't care about noise, it can't get better than PC P&C.

Here is an episode of mine. When I built my first A64 system, I encountered a strange problem - missing hard disks. I couldn't figure out what's going on because all the stability tests just went fine, but the hard disks kept missing. I eventually replaced my Enermax 701AX with PC P&C Turbo 510, and the problem went away.

Since then, even though I switched to Seasonic S12 due to noise of Turbo 510, Ididn't return the PC P&C PSU. Reason? As a computer hobbiest, I upgrade my hardware often, and build/fix computers for my family and friends. When a given system's causing an issue, I check if it's the PSU by swapping it with the PC P&C. If the machine still causes the problem, at least I know it's not the PSU. If the problem goes away, then the given PSU has a problem. Ask Wesley Fink @AT and he'll tell you.

So yes, PC P&C PSUs are an overkill for average users. But it surely has its use and if you don't mind the noise it's the best of the best. Keep in mind a PSU is usually a long-term investment which doesn't require a frequent upgrade.

lop

 

[Ken90630]

Thanks, all, for the info and feedback. 🙂

Ken