What is happening in Libia and Egypt ?

May 11, 2008
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I do not want to be cruel and minimize the indeed horrible events in Japan, but the people against nuclear energy will need their natural gas and oil. I have to admit that i am stretching reality a bit, but since people are not okay with clean nuclear energy, they are okay with natural gas and oil from countries where there is no negative attitude against suppression of people. It seems to me a lot of people are forgetting what nuclear (especially thorium reactors) does to solve problems. It does not mean that nuclear generated electricity suddenly removes the need for oil or natural gas, i mean we still need our oils and plastics. But it would reduce the need for oil and natural gas. Have the green people who want to have peace as well all around the globe ever thought of that ? Of course, a more sophisticated nuclear power plant will need exotic materials as well, but i think that people will understand what i am getting at. That the so called green people (pro bio fuels etcetera)think they have a clean conscience because they are against nuclear energy. Well, it is time to wake up and hear the cries...
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
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Libya's oil exports have stopped causing world supplies to tighten, but the fall of the Japanese market has shifted investors away from commodities. Gaddafi appears to be kicking butt causing many to breath a sigh of relief that the oil will resume flowing soon without their having to intervene and before prices can skyrocket again.

Egypt is debating constitutional reforms amidst reassurances it will remain an ally of the US and the occasional bit of scuffling among fringe groups.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
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The people who want democracy in Libya is getting crushed because Obama is sitting on his hands instead of instituting a no fly zone and making it a fair fight.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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The people who want democracy in Libya is getting crushed because Obama is sitting on his hands instead of instituting a no fly zone and making it a fair fight.

Why is it our duty to make a civil war a "fair" fight?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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The people who want democracy in Libya is getting crushed because Obama is sitting on his hands instead of instituting a no fly zone and making it a fair fight.

If the US took any action at all, then even if the rebels win it's still a government propped up by the US. Who's to say the rebels wouldn't put someone in place worse than Qaddafi? And then it would be our fault.

No. Fuck the rest of the world. Let them solve their own problems.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I agree, Qaddafi appears to be winning, while the world is not willing to intervene. And what has largely amounted to the Qaddafi win is his wholesale hiring of foreign mercenaries. And if those foreign mercenaries do not take kindly to being laid off, ole Qaddafi may be hated and hunted from to the foreseeable future. Qaddafi woes will never be over now.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
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If the US took any action at all, then even if the rebels win it's still a government propped up by the US. Who's to say the rebels wouldn't put someone in place worse than Qaddafi? And then it would be our fault.

No. Fuck the rest of the world. Let them solve their own problems.

What if the French said the same thing during the revolutionary war?

Fuck those colonists, let them solve their own problems.
 

amyklai

Senior member
Nov 11, 2008
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Quaddafi has oil money. He can always hire mercenaries. He can even hire mercenaries to hunt other mercenaries, if he wants to.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
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What if the French said the same thing during the revolutionary war?

Fuck those colonists, let them solve their own problems.



The French had no interest in us other than punching their hated English enemy in the nose.

Look at our history of helping out people in this part of the world, it isn't good. Hell we helped the Afghans push out the Soviets and look where that got us...

The US will always be blamed whether we help or don't. So might as well stay out of it since we're neck deep in two other wars anyways.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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What if the French said the same thing during the revolutionary war?

Fuck those colonists, let them solve their own problems.

I certainly wouldn't have blamed them.

However, if you think the French had any interest in the colonies because of some grandiose notion of freedom rather than a purely selfish motivation, you're sadly mistaken.

Edit: I see Nintendesert covered it.
 
May 11, 2008
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Although i seem like evil now to some people, let's turn back to the poor people who are suffering from the earthquake and the tsunami.

:(:(:(
Although some receive good news, a lot of people are not so fortunate :thumbsdown:.


Luckily we have some good news here : :thumbsup:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/03/15/california.student.japan/index.html

Riverside, California (CNN) -- Akiko Kosaka, a student from Japan attending the University of California at Riverside, had lost all hope for her family in Minamisanriku, the fishing village where more than half of the 17,000 residents are missing and feared dead in the aftermath of last week's tsunami.

For three days, she scoured the Internet. She received one e-mail that her youngest sister, Yukako, 13, was likely safe in her middle school's shelter. But what about her parents, paternal grandparents and older sister, who all lived under the same roof?

When the mayor was quoted in the media as saying he barely survived the tsunami, Kosaka thought the worst, because her father's pharmacy was located near the town hall.

"I didn't think they survived," Kosaka, 20, told CNN during a tearful interview Tuesday. "I cried for three days -- Friday, Saturday, Sunday."

Then she received word Sunday night from a friend in Japan of the existence of a 45-second YouTube video showing her family home as the only one standing amid the rubble. The video highlighted her older sister holding a sign to a TV news crew saying in Japanese "we are all safe."
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Kosaka expressed relief upon hearing of the video, but became distraught after she couldn't find it online, despite staying up all night looking for it.

Then a contact through a Japanese social network e-mailed her the link Monday morning.

When seeing the video for the first time inside the home of her host family, Kosaka's reaction surprised everyone in the household.

"I screamed, and my host parents woke up and they thought it was really bad," Kosaka said. "They asked what happened. And I said, 'They survived!'"

In the video, her 24-year-old sister, Shoko, is standing on the family home's balcony, off Kosaka's bedroom, and is asking the TV crew to pass along word to her sister in America that she's safe.

Now Kosaka is trying to respond by using the media and the Internet to inform her relatives she's aware of their message -- though she's still concerned about them in the obliterated coastal village, which media accounts liken to a ghost town.

Kosaka has yet to see her father, Katsumi; mother, Noriko; or paternal grandparents on any video -- or receive any word from them.

Though she speaks English, Kosaka extended a message to them, in Japanese, through a CNN news crew: "My older sister, Shoko, I saw your video. Thank you very much for being alive. It made me really happy that you are worried about me even in this tough situation.

"Grandpa and grandma, how is your health? Dad and mom, I know that everything is tough right now with your job and everything but I am so glad that you are alive. I really look forward to seeing you guys again."

In the offices of the University of California at Riverside Extension program, where she began a year-long study of English last September, Kosaka provided a personal narrative to the stark footage of her hometown street now in ruins.

Kosaka's family home is the only one left standing on a hill because her father reconstructed the two-story house with a basement five years ago, Kosaka said. The other houses in the neighborhood were aging, she said.
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Kosaka expressed shock that the earthquake or the tsunami demolished the block because she thought the area would be safe on high ground, she said. Her family's house has a scenic view of the ocean, just a five-minute walk away, she said.

In the video, a news crew approaches the family house, and Kosaka's older sister is wearing a white helmet and holds up one sign saying, "Kosaka Family," and then another saying, "We are all safe."

At another point in the video, the older sister indicates she's holding up the signs to the camera crew "because my younger sister is in America. We are all okay."

When Kosaka heard of the video's existence, she thought to herself, "I couldn't believe it. It's a miracle," she said.

Since seeing the video, she watched it over and over again -- at least "50 or something" times within about 24 hours, she said, offering a wild guess.

As she reviewed the video again Tuesday morning, Kosaka was still incredulous.

"This is my house," she said, viewing the video on a university office computer. "When I saw this video, I was very shocked by it. I thought (the hillside community) was safe. There were houses next to my house, but they were destroyed. That means the tsunami came up to the house."

She was moved to see her sister shouting to the news crew from the balcony. "It makes me very happy," Kosaka said. "It's the only way to hear her voice."

Her sister's voice, though, struck Kosaka as "tired and depressed."

"Maybe she tries to stay strong for my family. So I'm very proud of her," Kosaka said.

She believes her parents are likely OK, but her grandfather, Yoshio, is 85 and grandmother, Soyoko, is 80.

"My grandparents are old, so I'm worried about their health," Kosaka said, adding no one in her hometown probably has water, and the winter weather is still cold, with snow.

She's also worried about the family pharmacy, where her father, 52, is a pharmacist and her mother assists. The family opened it 10 years ago.

"I think it was his dream," Kosaka added.

Since Kosaka saw the video, she has been sharing her story with classmates. "I cried in front of them too much," she said Tuesday.

The University of California at Riverside Extension is the continuing education branch of the university and has an enrollment of 4,000 students from 60 countries who participate in English-language study or certificate programs, said Bronwyn Jenkins-Deas, associate dean and head of international programs.

Of the 4,000 students, 109 of them are from Japan, and five of them had families affected by the quake or tsunami or both, Jenkins-Deas said.

It is only Kosaka, though, who has yet to have direct contact with her family, Jenkins-Deas said.

"The story is quite amazing," Jenkins-Deas added.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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the military is going around beating up people sitting in for copts' rights in egypt, libya i'm not sure what to think as the libyan freedom twitter feeds and the international press are at odds with each other.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
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the military is going around beating up people sitting in for copts' rights in egypt, libya i'm not sure what to think as the libyan freedom twitter feeds and the international press are at odds with each other.

Hard to get more than a play-by-play. Both sides claim total victory up until one is whipped into total defeat.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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The people who want democracy in Libya is getting crushed because Obama is sitting on his hands instead of instituting a no fly zone and making it a fair fight.

To be fair at least he's not pretending to be someone he's not. Nothing good can come out of interfering in Libya. In general I think we have a responsibility to protect the weak, but in that part of the world it's clear that it's a catch-22. Do the right thing and help defeat Qaddafi only to have a country in perpetual chaos, or let him kill people wholesale. We tried option A with Iraq, Obama is trying option B.

Fortunately, history books will show him as a pussy that filled out NCAA brackets and took a vacation to Brazil while people were getting slaughtered by a dictator.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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To be fair at least he's not pretending to be someone he's not. Nothing good can come out of interfering in Libya. In general I think we have a responsibility to protect the weak, but in that part of the world it's clear that it's a catch-22. Do the right thing and help defeat Qaddafi only to have a country in perpetual chaos, or let him kill people wholesale. We tried option A with Iraq, Obama is trying option B.

Fortunately, history books will show him as a pussy that filled out NCAA brackets and took a vacation to Brazil while people were getting slaughtered by a dictator.

Meh, people are getting slaughtered all over the world. The rape crisis in southern Africa alone practically merits martial law, doesn't make it our responsibility.

I can see the UN or NATO going in, but as a unilateral power the United States has no role in Libya beyond protecting our affected citizens and diplomats.
 
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Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Why is it our duty to make a civil war a "fair" fight?

Whether it's our duty or not it's in our long term interest. it isn't a civil war, it's one rich family versus a people.

And we're partly responsible for Kaddafi's military, whether he got it from us or from the Soviets, I dont know, but we were part of the era of arming everyone.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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Meh, people are getting slaughtered all over the world. The rape crisis in southern Africa alone practically merits martial law, doesn't make it our responsibility.

I can see the UN or NATO going in, but as a unilateral power the United States has no role in Libya short of protecting our affect citizens and diplomats.

Yea but it's on the news.

As for Africa, no one cares about them.

The question is why Obama is showing zero leadership with the UN/NATO and is just avoiding it altogether. Even his minions at the press conferences are getting frustrated.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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Yea but it's on the news.

As for Africa, no one cares about them.

The question is why Obama is showing zero leadership with the UN/NATO and is just avoiding it altogether. Even his minions at the press conferences are getting frustrated.

Because it's not really our concern. UN and NATO are supposed to be multinational no? Why is the US supposed to lead everything? We're the world superpower, not the world leader, and the few times we've tried to assume the role post-Soviet collapse have been disastrous. We have little interest in Libya. Let other countries who have more interest lead the charge. Britain and France are already going before NATO IIRC.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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Libya has gone from the tipping point of successful popular revolt to violent oppression while the world could have stepped in but didn't.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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Because it's not really our concern. UN and NATO are supposed to be multinational no? Why is the US supposed to lead everything? We're the world superpower, not the world leader, and the few times we've tried to assume the role post-Soviet collapse have been disastrous. We have little interest in Libya. Let other countries who have more interest lead the charge. Britain and France are already going before NATO IIRC.

To whom much is given, much will be required.
 

Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
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The people who want democracy in Libya is getting crushed because Obama is sitting on his hands instead of instituting a no fly zone and making it a fair fight.

im normally pretty hawkish on matters of national security and defense. However, in this situation, id like to see NATO or someone else step up for a change. Basically feels like they're all sitting arund waiting for the U.S. to do something. Why should U.S. commit significant air power to protect the free flow of oil to Red China? The Saudis and Egyptians have a significant number of F-16s themselves.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
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Yea but it's on the news.

As for Africa, no one cares about them.

The question is why Obama is showing zero leadership with the UN/NATO and is just avoiding it altogether. Even his minions at the press conferences are getting frustrated.


Maybe because he knows something we don't. Like just how badly outclassed the rebels might be, and just how unpopular the idea really is with NATO members despite any rhetoric they might be spouting.
 

colonel

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
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The people who want democracy in Libya is getting crushed because Obama is sitting on his hands instead of instituting a no fly zone and making it a fair fight.
what happens if a pilot goes down? Somalia =Black hawk down
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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-snip-
The question is why Obama is showing zero leadership with the UN/NATO and is just avoiding it altogether. Even his minions at the press conferences are getting frustrated.

Because it's not really our concern. UN and NATO are supposed to be multinational no? Why is the US supposed to lead everything? We're the world superpower, not the world leader, and the few times we've tried to assume the role post-Soviet collapse have been disastrous. We have little interest in Libya. Let other countries who have more interest lead the charge. Britain and France are already going before NATO IIRC.

There are arguments both for-and-against taking such action as a no fly zone.

However, this missses the point when discussing leadership. 'Leadership' can be excercised/demonstrated both by standing for some action to be taken, or standing against it being taken.

It seems to me he's getting pressure from some of our Western allies, along with some in the US, to pursue the no fly zone. So, he could show some leadership and stand up and say why he opposes it. Make the case for the US and his admin not supporting the zone. Instead he's acting indecisive, can't make up his mind and come to a decision, turns his attention from the issue and becomes heavily involved banquets, golf and the like.

I've heard someone characterize his (in)actions from events like Iran/Egypt/Libya/Japan/fed budget as 'strategic disengagement'. I think they have a point. It's as if after apologising for the USA, he's put us on a 'time out' where we as a nation sit in the back of the room and aren't allowed to have an opinion any more. Foreign policy is his Constitutiona area of responsibility, he's supposed to be our voice in the world. He doesn't seem to want to be that voice, or maybe he thinks we shouldn't have one.

Fern