• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

What is going on? Im reading WAY too many people with idle freeze problems with 1st gen Ryzens

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
3,858
3,852
136
I said that in the specific case of using an 8 core 16 thread CPU with a cheap motherboard was the only thing in common with Shivansps's problems. I think that could also be true of others. Yes, the 1700 may now be $160, but I paid $400, what is was when it come out. To use that on a $54 motherboard makes no sense, those inexpensive motherboard were not made for 8 cores, maybe 4, or even 6.
Those inexpensive motherboards have their place. Some people use them with success. Let's not forget the 1700 is a 65W TDP CPU, hardly a challenge for a modern motherboard. It's only when considering overclocking that VRMs become a factor to keep track of.

I agree, but to be fair, maybe mobo makers should not list support with 8 cores or high TDP ones at least if they lack the VRM capability to make it work.
The OP talks about R7 1700, a 65W TDP CPU.
 

Jan Olšan

Senior member
Jan 12, 2017
265
253
106
I saw crash/reboot with a Ryzen 3 2200G that was likely caused by mobo having "low current idle" set on while being fed by an old pre-Haswell (and not very good) PSU.
Likely what happened was that the load on 12V was too low (no external GPU either) and that made the voltages unstable.

At least I think that was the cause because it happened soon after installing that PC, but after I disabled that setting in BIOS, there was no further trouble anymore (I also updated to agesa 1.0.0.6/january BIOS, in theory could be that too, but I suspect the wrong PSU setting).
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
20,605
8,463
136
I agree, but to be fair, maybe mobo makers should not list support with 8 cores or high TDP ones at least if they lack the VRM capability to make it work.
They work, but need a good PSU, memory, settings, etc to not be problematic. As I said the user needs to us a little common sense when getting a motherboard. Matching a $54 motherboard with a $400 CPU is not good (when they came out).

Actually, not that I think about it, when they came out, only the 370 chipset motherboards were available, thats all there was. I got a $89 motherboard to go with my $400 CPU on day one, becuase the Taichi was not available yet. Its still working every day AS A WORK COMPUTER FOR MY SON WITH NO PROBLEMS !

So, my takeaway is that if you have a 1200 or bottom tier chip, get a bottom tier motherboard to match. If you go top tier, get a top tier motherboard. Its like putting a blown hemi in a Volkswagon Beatle, its not going to work.
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,512
1,374
136
Those inexpensive motherboards have their place. Some people use them with success. Let's not forget the 1700 is a 65W TDP CPU, hardly a challenge for a modern motherboard. It's only when considering overclocking that VRMs become a factor to keep track of.

Yea, that's what I kind of caught myself and said "or high TDP ones at least". Maybe the el cheapo models should only include 65W TDP models.


The OP talks about R7 1700, a 65W TDP CPU.
They work, but need a good PSU, memory, settings, etc to not be problematic. As I said the user needs to us a little common sense when getting a motherboard. Matching a $54 motherboard with a $400 CPU is not good (when they came out).

Actually, not that I think about it, when they came out, only the 370 chipset motherboards were available, thats all there was. I got a $89 motherboard to go with my $400 CPU on day one, becuase the Taichi was not available yet. Its still working every day AS A WORK COMPUTER FOR MY SON WITH NO PROBLEMS !

So, my takeaway is that if you have a 1200 or bottom tier chip, get a bottom tier motherboard to match. If you go top tier, get a top tier motherboard. Its like putting a blown hemi in a Volkswagon Beatle, its not going to work.
Parts should be put together in a way that makes sense, yes, but you will always find people trying to cut corners. One lesson I was taught a long time ago was to always use a quality PSU. I always have and have never had any problems as a result. I have seen plenty of adequate to cheap models that fail and sometimes take parts with it. It's not worth the risk.

I have a quality PSU behind a quality UPS. There is no way I should ever have a weird power related problem or disaster. I wouldn't have it any other way.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
20,605
8,463
136
Parts should be put together in a way that makes sense, yes, but you will always find people trying to cut corners. One lesson I was taught a long time ago was to always use a quality PSU. I always have and have never had any problems as a result. I have seen plenty of adequate to cheap models that fail and sometimes take parts with it. It's not worth the risk.

I have a quality PSU behind a quality UPS. There is no way I should ever have a weird power related problem or disaster. I wouldn't have it any other way.
I never mentioned the PSU, as I am with you. Even with the least expensive build, I use gold rated and above PSU's and from Corsair, Seasonic, EVGA, only the best. I mean, you can get an EVGA 650 watt gold rated PSU for $75 or less. Thats like $20 more than the cheap crap. Why take a chance ???
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,327
1,525
136
My opinion has always been stability first, performance second, anesthetics last. A fast or great looking system is near useless if its always down because you have to troubleshoot a new issue. PSU/MB/Memory choice matters more than whatever you end up deciding CPU/GPU.
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,512
1,374
136
I never mentioned the PSU, as I am with you. Even with the least expensive build, I use gold rated and above PSU's and from Corsair, Seasonic, EVGA, only the best. I mean, you can get an EVGA 650 watt gold rated PSU for $75 or less. Thats like $20 more than the cheap crap. Why take a chance ???
I would take money out of my GPU or CPU budget for a PSU, never the other way around. But some people either don't know, or worse, have been warned but think they know better. You may get lucky, but it will likely come back to bite you in the ass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IEC and Markfw

chrisjames61

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
629
350
136
Well i sold my 1700 a few weeks ago for economics reasons, but i was having that problem that MANY people seen to be having lately and i got a 2200G as replacement and i dint got that problem since.

It happens like this: When the pc is on idle or very low load, it just freezes whiout blue screens or anything, you may be web browsing, hearing music or just starting up the computer. But it dosent happen with load, ever, that was the problem i was having with my 1700, i could leave a game open 10 hours, close it, go to te bathroom and when i return the pc dosent respond anymore and i had to reset.

What has me worried that is problem is awfully similar to what happens when you are trying OC with Ryzen Master and the vcore is just a bit low. I know of 3 other people outside this forum with this issue, and ive read a few others over the internet, they all have a 1st gen Ryzen, a few people on this forum mentioned instability in another thread as well.

Some people are blaming Windows 10 Updates but why is affecting 1st gen Ryzen this much? The best i can think off right now is to recomend change power plan to high performance to avoid CPU going intro the low states, im awaiting results.

Sounds like a pretty small sample size. Anectdotal tbh. 9 out of 10 postings in forums are because people have problems. It isn't representative of most enthusiasts who aren't having issues so they just don't go on forums asking for help. Ryzen has brought AMD back from the grave. If the first generation was plagued with issues they would have been buried which is hardly the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gikaseixas

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,014
681
136
What power mode is windows set to?
When haswell first came out you heard this at least a few times and that's no 30 years ago,intel changed the power draw for sleep mode and some PSUs just considered that low load as no system being connected anymore,someone came up with the solution of putting a small constant load on the PSU like a little fan or something that would always draw enough power to keep the PSU from shutting down.
yes i think that was the time, i never said it was 30 years ago.
 

.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
1,131
1,266
136
1700 + C6H, no issues since ~August 2017. My 1700's batch is 1708SUS, that's ~March 2017, launch batch, and qualifies for the segfault bug which I'd thankfully never experienced.

Whatever rough edges were at the beginning, have been solved by newer AGESA versions.

It happens like this: When the pc is on idle or very low load, it just freezes whiout blue screens or anything, you may be web browsing, hearing music or just starting up the computer. But it dosent happen with load, ever, that was the problem i was having with my 1700, i could leave a game open 10 hours, close it, go to te bathroom and when i return the pc dosent respond anymore and i had to reset.
Ryzen idle power is very low at least on the cores domain, I'd bet people having these issues have crappy power supplies. If you have the "Power Supply Idle Control" setting available in the AMD CBS menu, then I'd try the options available there to see if it helps. Some people have had success with this.

That setting was added with Pinnacle Ridge AGESA IIRC.

The best i can think off right now is to recomend change power plan to high performance to avoid CPU going intro the low states, im awaiting results.
You should then go the extra mile by disabling C6 idle states in the AMD CBS menu.

-------------------------------

You could also try setting a higher vSOC voltage, stock is around ~0.9v. When overclocking memory and by extension the fabric, getting it up to ~1.05-1.1v is crucial on 1xxx parts for >3000MHz RAM / 1.5GHz fabric speed. Otherwise it's a crash fest.

I know you're not overclocking and just trying to fix the idle freezing. Try bumping it to 1v, it's a nice middle ground for the officially supported speeds.

One of AMD's recommendations when diagnosing the segfault bug was to set vSOC to 1.1v then see if it went away. If that's not proof that stock vSOC on 1xxx parts (at least for early batches before 1730) may not be enough for proper operation under load or stability overall...
 
Last edited:

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,014
681
136
Well, there is one thing in common, all Gigabyte boards, and NO 370's, all the lower tier boards. I don't use those. Also, what PSU's ? But the fact that it "just started happening points to cheap motherboards. I have not touched Gigabyte for years due to the problems I have had with them, since my DQ6 (it was good, the last of them)
Whats wrong on the AB350-Gaming for a 1700 stock? It has the same VRMs as the AX370-gaming and most of other B350 motherboards out there. Minus the useless leds.
It could be motherboard VRM degradation at least in my case, ill find out in the future because im not thinking about replacing it any time soon. But 2 of the other cases (that i know and i can say it is the same issue) are using newer motherboards and cpus like the 1200-1400... Im more inclined to belive it is a Windows issue because all this started to happen out of a sudden a few months ago, but it only seem to affect 1st gen Ryzens, and a small minority.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,014
681
136
1700 + C6H, no issues since ~August 2017. My 1700's batch is 1708SUS, that's ~March 2017, launch batch, and qualifies for the segfault bug which I'd thankfully never experienced.

Whatever rough edges were at the beginning, have been solved by newer AGESA versions.



Ryzen idle power is very low at least on the cores domain, I'd bet people having these issues have crappy power supplies. If you have the "Power Supply Idle Control" setting available in the AMD CBS menu, then I'd try the options available there to see if it helps. Some people have had success with this.

That setting was added with Pinnacle Ridge AGESA IIRC.



You should then go the extra mile by disabling C6 idle states in the AMD CBS menu.

-------------------------------

You could also try setting a higher vSOC voltage, stock is around ~0.9v. When overclocking memory and by extension the fabric, getting it up to ~1.05-1.1v is crucial on 1xxx parts for >3000MHz RAM / 1.5GHz fabric speed. Otherwise it's a crash fest.

I know you're not overclocking and just trying to fix the idle freezing. Try bumping it to 1v, it's a nice middle ground for the officially supported speeds.
Ill try that on the pcs that are coming back for support that i mentioned, i not longer have the 1700. Im running a 2200G now.

Sounds like a pretty small sample size. Anectdotal tbh. 9 out of 10 postings in forums are because people have problems. It isn't representative of most enthusiasts who aren't having issues so they just don't go on forums asking for help. Ryzen has brought AMD back from the grave. If the first generation was plagued with issues they would have been buried which is hardly the case.
Well if my case is any example i dint even started to look into it until i saw the "1700 instability" thread on this forum, i belive it was a Windows problem and since it only happened on idle it was annoying and not much more. Then i found more people with similar issues and now im i have support tickets on my job about it as well. Im not sure it is a CPU problem, to me is Windows Power Management since this thing started to happen a few months ago having some problem with a agesa version.
To be a CPU problem it means it has to be degraded really, really fast and thats unlikely as well.
 
Last edited:

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
20,605
8,463
136
Whats wrong on the AB350-Gaming for a 1700 stock? It has the same VRMs as the AX370-gaming and most of other B350 motherboards out there. Minus the useless leds.
It could be motherboard VRM degradation at least in my case, ill find out in the future because im not thinking about replacing it any time soon. But 2 of the other cases (that i know and i can say it is the same issue) are using newer motherboards and cpus like the 1200-1400... Im more inclined to belive it is a Windows issue because all this started to happen out of a sudden a few months ago, but it only seem to affect 1st gen Ryzens, and a small minority.
I am not going to try and debug your problem, you have not even given all your system specs, especially the PSU. The problem with this entire thread, is you accuse the CPU with no proof, and say it happens to "way too many people" yet no evidence. And yet now you say "and a small minority"
 
Last edited:

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,054
92
91
Using 1st Gen Ryzen here since October 2017, no issues ever. Not in Idle, not in Load. Not with stock speeds (which I used for more than a year), and not with a proper OC (which I'm using right now and it's been stable since a solid 3 months or so).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gikaseixas

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,597
958
136
I would take money out of my GPU or CPU budget for a PSU, never the other way around. But some people either don't know, or worse, have been warned but think they know better. You may get lucky, but it will likely come back to bite you in the ass.
On my way outdated PC the only thing that ever failed was the very expensive PSU. While it still was in warranty (5 year warranty) sending it for RMA cost me half of what a new one would have cost (prices came down quick, this was one of the first gold rated psus). To be fair it has been working fine since getting fixed but my point is even expensive PSUs will fail.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
3,858
3,852
136
It could be motherboard VRM degradation at least in my case, ill find out in the future because im not thinking about replacing it any time soon.
You can probe for VRM degradation in a very simple manner. Just give Vcore a small positive offset of say +20-30mV. If the problem goes away for now, let it work that way and enjoy your stable system. If it persists, go back to stock and look for another cause.


Im more inclined to belive it is a Windows issue because all this started to happen out of a sudden a few months ago, but it only seem to affect 1st gen Ryzens, and a small minority.
i belive it was a Windows problem and since it only happened on idle it was annoying and not much more. Then i found more people with similar issues and now im i have support tickets on my job about it as well. Im not sure it is a CPU problem, to me is Windows Power Management since this thing started to happen a few months ago having some problem with a agesa version.
A Windows problem is unlikely due to Ryzen having sold very well, hence a buggy OS - CPU interaction would affect lots of users at once. It would also likely leave a diagnostic trace, bluescreen or event log.

If you want to further investigate this, the first step is to try disabling C state support in BIOS.
 

Val_

Member
Nov 24, 2012
29
0
66
Just to throw some data in. Ordered a 1700 within 2 weeks of release. Running on a X370 Taichi. This is everything from a game system, encoding station, streaming station, and VM test bed. It is on 24/7 outside a month it was down due to construction at home and 2 days during a move. This is over the course of now 2 years. It spends a ridiculously large part of it's day idling (Windows is set to not to go to sleep). It has been a rock and has had zero lockup issues once I got to a stable bios memory wise in late April '17.
Hi ! Please could you tell me what PSU you have ? I have a 1700X and a X370 Taichi and I have the freeze on idle/low load problem at stock settings ! My PSU is a Corsair RM650x

I would say that yes, a fair number of people have this issue. Especially with Linux (both Linux and Windows for me), although as I told on another thread here, there seems to be other problems going on. My CPU also has the "Ryzen segfault bug" and I’m waiting for a RMA

The problem isn’t limited to first gen Ryzens as the thread title suggests, by the way
 
Last edited:

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,327
1,525
136
Hi ! Please could you tell me what PSU you have ? I have a 1700X and a X370 Taichi and I have the freeze on idle/low load problem at stock settings ! My PSU is a Corsair RM650x

I would say that yes, a fair number of people have this issue. Especially with Linux (both Linux and Windows for me), although as I told on another thread here, there seems to be other problems going on. My CPU also has the "Ryzen segfault bug" and I’m waiting for a RMA

The problem isn’t limited to first gen Ryzens as the thread title suggests, by the way
Using a RMi850 power supply. When I get home I can look up the BIOS version.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
20,605
8,463
136
Hi ! Please could you tell me what PSU you have ? I have a 1700X and a X370 Taichi and I have the freeze on idle/low load problem at stock settings ! My PSU is a Corsair RM650x

I would say that yes, a fair number of people have this issue. Especially with Linux (both Linux and Windows for me), although as I told on another thread here, there seems to be other problems going on. My CPU also has the "Ryzen segfault bug" and I’m waiting for a RMA

The problem isn’t limited to first gen Ryzens as the thread title suggests, by the way
What I find odd, is that I, and several others I trust on Anandtech have built many Ryzen systems in the last 2 years (I own quite a few personally as well), and none of us have every had this problem. In addition, for the last 2 years, this is the first I have even heard of this problem , just a few days ago.

Really odd.....
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,014
681
136
I am not going to try and debug your problem, you have not even given all your system specs, especially the PSU.
I would have told you if you would have ask instead of jumping on the defensive and claiming it is all sensationalism for no reason. I said on the first post that i not longer have the 1700 so why do you think im trying to diagnose MY system? Im trying to find out what could be the root case of this and C-states is what im trying right now.


----

In case anyone wonders, my system was:
-Ryzen 7 1700
-Gigabyte AB350-Gaming with F23 Bios (Agesa 1.0.0.4)
-4x8GB DDR4-3200 Corsair LPX
-MSI RX580 Gaming X
-EVGA 650GQ

Here is the last time i had my 1700 last Saturday, i ran a Cinebench R20 And i had this random idle freezes, it happened like once a day since december-january, altrought in some days did not happen.

Now i have:
-Ryzen 3 2200G
-Gigabyte AB350-Gaming with F23 Bios (Agesa 1.0.0.4) (the exact same motherboard)
-4x8GB DDR4-3200 Corsair LPX
-MSI RX580 Gaming X
-EVGA 650GQ

No freezes for a few days until i got to get rid of the RX580 and 16GB of ram on wednesday. Now i have the 2200g, the same motherboard and PSU, it is still running fine with no freezes but is not longer the same.

The 2 system that im waiting to get here for support are:

-Ryzen 1200
-Gigabyte A320-S2H
-1x8GB DDR4-2400 Crucial
-Zotac GTX1050 2GB
-XFX 400W

And

-Ryzen 5 1400
-Gigabyte AB350-DS3H
-2x8GB DDR4-2400 Crucial
-RX570 4GB (i think it is Gigabyte, not sure)
-TT Smart 650W

Both reporting the same issue that i was having.

Y
A Windows problem is unlikely due to Ryzen having sold very well, hence a buggy OS - CPU interaction would affect lots of users at once. It would also likely leave a diagnostic trace, bluescreen or event log.

If you want to further investigate this, the first step is to try disabling C state support in BIOS.
i will next week on the two systems im looking into.

I said that about Windows Power Management because i saw people investigating lower Ryzen performance on Windows due to recent updates, that is likely to be caused by something wrong in handling C-States.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CHADBOGA

Rudy Toody

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2006
4,126
334
126
When I first setup my 1700X, Taichi x370, on Linux, it would do the same thing. It turned out the original chips had a seg fault defect. AMD replaced it, and it is producing 195K per day on Rake search distributed computing site. So, the production date might be the problem.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,014
681
136
When I first setup my 1700X, Taichi x370, on Linux, it would do the same thing. It turned out the original chips had a seg fault defect. AMD replaced it, and it is producing 195K per day on Rake search distributed computing site. So, the production date might be the problem.
Yeah, my Ryzen was one of the first Ryzens produced, i pretty much got it right away, never checked if it had the segfault problem, but it is possible. The other ill have to check but it is possible as well, i could check if they have the segfaults as well.

Mine 1700 at least never had any problems until these last few months, thats for sure.
 

HisEvilness

Member
Mar 23, 2019
34
2
16
www.hisevilness.com
First gen ryzen only use Hynix A-die and Samsung B-die up to 3200mhz, and make sure it is single rank and not dual rank.
My 1600, 1600X both have issue's with the RAM i had to shop for a proper kit took me a while to find something that is actually working with Ryzen 1st gen.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY