What is and is not allowed concerning 9/11

[HeXploiT]

So I can get on the forums and discuss Kennedy assassination conspiracies, drug usage, UFO's and bigfoot but 9/11 conspiracy threads are always quickly killed by mods. Why exactly is this? If it's such a silly idea why can't people discuss this issue? UFO's are silly. Religious threads cause a ridiculous amount of debate and yet are more often than not left open. Is there some sort of guideline to follow concerning alternative theories of what happened on 9/11 or is each moderator free to close threads simply for feeling offended? I read the TOS very clearly and see no information on this.
Having been active at anandtech for some years I know there are a large percentage of people here who are interested in this sort of conversation.
Looking for some clarification of the specific guidelines on this issue.

 

[JJChicken]

It hasn't been 7 years yet. Give it some time as it still is emotional for some people.

 

[HeXploiT]

Bump.

 

[Fern]

Perry,

While I was not a Mod when the policy of *no more 911 threads* was implemented and can't comment at all about the *official* workings of it, I recall:

1. Yes, people who lost friends/loved ones etc have been offended by claims that our government did it (or whomever else some conspirists believe).

2. The topic has been done to death, and there are really no new developments about it.

3. Most threads about it ended up in flaming because it's been discussed a zillionty times and long-term regular posters seem tired of debunking the same claims over-n-over.

That's my recollection of it.

Fern

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: Fern
Perry,

While I was not a Mod when the policy of *no more 911 threads* was implemented and can't comment at all about the *official* workings of it, I recall:

1. Yes, people who lost friends/loved ones etc have been offended by claims that our government did it (or whomever else some conspirists believe).

2. The topic has been done to death, and there are really no new developments about it.

3. Most threads about it ended up in flaming because it's been discussed a zillionty times and long-term regular posters seem tired of debunking the same claims over-n-over.

That's my recollection of it.

Fern

Everything you just stated could equally be said for the war.
So what's the difference? There are 100x as many war threads.
So why fear such conversation?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Perry404
Everything you just stated could equally be said for the war.
So what's the difference? There are 100x as many war threads.
So why fear such conversation?

Maybe items #2 & 3. I haven't noticed much of #1 about the Iraq war issue (but have seen a few such sentiments expressed).

But the war is ongoing, there is *new* news to discuss etc.

I'd tend to agree with you about threads concerning the reasons/motivations etc of starting the war. While I haven't noticed new threads about that topic, it does pop up quite often. But I doubt you'll see a ban on that, I won't names but we have, umm, influential members who post on that topic often and with deep emotion. I don't see that issue being forbidden.

Fern

 

[HeXploiT]

I just think it seems rather immature to ban such a serious topic because one side can't handle the debate.
There is no other reason aside from a weak scientific argument. I can start a thread and argue that because of the color of my skin I believe I am superior to other races and that thread would go on for an extended period of time so long as the insults didn't get out of control. Nonetheless it would stay alive even though there is no scientific evidence whatsoever to support that argument. It just smells.
I would really like to see Anandtech be open to this discussion again.
For crying out loud I can have text sex in the L&R forum but I can't talk about this here? I'll bet you a dime to a dollar a poll would show that a large percentage of the people here would be open to this.
There are a thousand subjects discussed here that I don't like but I don't complain about them. Instead I do the mature thing and ignore the thread.
If you had a group of people here who thought the world was flat would you ban the discussion? Certainly not. Open discussion allows for education and learning. I am arguing for open discussion and have complete faith in the scientific method and the ability to learn.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Perry404
I just think it seems rather immature to ban such a serious topic because one side can't handle the debate.
There is no other reason aside from a weak scientific argument. I can start a thread and argue that because of the color of my skin I believe I am superior to other races and that thread would go on for an extended period of time so long as the insults didn't get out of control. Nonetheless it would stay alive even though there is no scientific evidence whatsoever to support that argument. It just smells.
I would really like to see Anandtech be open to this discussion again.
For crying out loud I can have text sex in the L&R forum but I can't talk about this here? I'll bet you a dime to a dollar a poll would show that a large percentage of the people here would be open to this.
There are a thousand subjects discussed here that I don't like but I don't complain about them. Instead I do the mature thing and ignore the thread.
If you had a group of people here who thought the world was flat would you ban the discussion? Certainly not. Open discussion allows for education and learning. I am arguing for open discussion and have complete faith in the scientific method and the ability to learn.

The problem is that "education and learning" seems to end up being absent from most 9/11 conspiracy type threads, it turns into pages and pages of rehashing the same ground over and over again and flames quickly follow. It's not so much that one side can't handle the debate is that the debate is rarely conducted in a way that fits with the general tone of P&N...which should say something.

That being said, rules can change with the times...myself and the other P&N and Senior mods will discuss this if you really feel strongly about it. We'll let you know...and for future reference, I'm not sure calling us immature is really the best way to get us to listen to your argument.

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Perry404
I just think it seems rather immature to ban such a serious topic because one side can't handle the debate.
There is no other reason aside from a weak scientific argument. I can start a thread and argue that because of the color of my skin I believe I am superior to other races and that thread would go on for an extended period of time so long as the insults didn't get out of control. Nonetheless it would stay alive even though there is no scientific evidence whatsoever to support that argument. It just smells.
I would really like to see Anandtech be open to this discussion again.
For crying out loud I can have text sex in the L&R forum but I can't talk about this here? I'll bet you a dime to a dollar a poll would show that a large percentage of the people here would be open to this.
There are a thousand subjects discussed here that I don't like but I don't complain about them. Instead I do the mature thing and ignore the thread.
If you had a group of people here who thought the world was flat would you ban the discussion? Certainly not. Open discussion allows for education and learning. I am arguing for open discussion and have complete faith in the scientific method and the ability to learn.

The problem is that "education and learning" seems to end up being absent from most 9/11 conspiracy type threads, it turns into pages and pages of rehashing the same ground over and over again and flames quickly follow. It's not so much that one side can't handle the debate is that the debate is rarely conducted in a way that fits with the general tone of P&N...which should say something.

That being said, rules can change with the times...myself and the other P&N and Senior mods will discuss this if you really feel strongly about it. We'll let you know...and for future reference, I'm not sure calling us immature is really the best way to get us to listen to your argument.

I do feel very strongly about it and so do many others.
If I lashed out with the word immature and offend some I do apologize yet I cannot deny this is partly how I feel. In my entire life I've never seen one single argument(outside of religion) that does not make progress through discussion. Wacky ideas that have no basis in science are always always weakened and only maintain the strength of their scientific & logical argument. The question begs to be asked, why do so many seemingly moderate people have this incredibly ridiculous belief?

I also have confidence that the new moderators of the P&N forum are more than capable of being fair and keeping things under control. And, as always, they have the power to close a thread if it goes up in flames. At least we would have the freedom to discuss the issue.

I do appreciate the consideration.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Perry


I am the Moderator that usually cracks down on the 9/11 threads.
However, no Moderator has ever requested for a review of my action.

The following are the criterea that I have used.

When they were a dime a dozen, I was locking them.

Then when they were going against laws of physics, and/or disproved by science, the same thing.
When taking words/phrases out of context to justify a theory, no go.
When built around the you-tube, the same opinion.

If they want to discuss it in terms of the US government planning/condoning as such, questionable (if actual evidence is available to support vs incompetence)

If they want to do it as pointing out government incompetence/political cover-up, fine.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Perry404
I just think it seems rather immature to ban such a serious topic because one side can't handle the debate.
There is no other reason aside from a weak scientific argument. I can start a thread and argue that because of the color of my skin I believe I am superior to other races and that thread would go on for an extended period of time so long as the insults didn't get out of control. Nonetheless it would stay alive even though there is no scientific evidence whatsoever to support that argument. It just smells.
I would really like to see Anandtech be open to this discussion again.
For crying out loud I can have text sex in the L&R forum but I can't talk about this here? I'll bet you a dime to a dollar a poll would show that a large percentage of the people here would be open to this.
There are a thousand subjects discussed here that I don't like but I don't complain about them. Instead I do the mature thing and ignore the thread.
If you had a group of people here who thought the world was flat would you ban the discussion? Certainly not. Open discussion allows for education and learning. I am arguing for open discussion and have complete faith in the scientific method and the ability to learn.

The problem is that "education and learning" seems to end up being absent from most 9/11 conspiracy type threads, it turns into pages and pages of rehashing the same ground over and over again and flames quickly follow. It's not so much that one side can't handle the debate is that the debate is rarely conducted in a way that fits with the general tone of P&N...which should say something.

That being said, rules can change with the times...myself and the other P&N and Senior mods will discuss this if you really feel strongly about it. We'll let you know...and for future reference, I'm not sure calling us immature is really the best way to get us to listen to your argument.

I do feel very strongly about it and so do many others.
If I lashed out with the word immature and offend some I do apologize yet I cannot deny this is partly how I feel. In my entire life I've never seen one single argument(outside of religion) that does not make progress through discussion. Wacky ideas that have no basis in science are always always weakened and only maintain the strength of their scientific & logical argument. The question begs to be asked, why do so many seemingly moderate people have this incredibly ridiculous belief?

I also have confidence that the new moderators of the P&N forum are more than capable of being fair and keeping things under control. And, as always, they have the power to close a thread if it goes up in flames. At least we would have the freedom to discuss the issue.

I do appreciate the consideration.

You have actually been in P&N and never seen an argument that hasn't made progress through discussion? Shens.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: thepd7
-snip-
You have actually been in P&N and never seen an argument that hasn't made progress through discussion? Shens.

Sorry to butt in here, but those would be threads on MMGW and evolution/creationism/ID.

They never go any where but flaming. However, some school board somewhere, or some Congressperson, tries to bring ID or cresationism into the schools - so it's news. It's in the MSM

Same with MMGW, always some new report or new measurement or new law proposed. It's news, it's in the mainstream media.

My educated guess on the matter of 911 conspiracies is that if something new was reported in the MSM, a thread would be allowed. It would be news.

Fern

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: thepd7
-snip-
You have actually been in P&N and never seen an argument that hasn't made progress through discussion? Shens.

Sorry to butt in here, but those would be threads on MMGW and evolution/creationism/ID.

They never go any where but flaming. However, some school board somewhere, or some Congressperson, tries to bring ID or cresationism into the schools - so it's news. It's in the MSM

Same with MMGW, always some new report or new measurement or new law proposed. It's news, it's in the mainstream media.

My educated guess on the matter of 911 conspiracies is that if something new was reported in the MSM, a thread would be allowed. It would be news.

Fern

oh yeah the threads about Bush doing this and that are always real productive, the ones about OBAMA SUCKS HILLARY RULES or HILLARY SUCKS OBAMA RULES always are calm and thoughtful as well.

 

[SickBeast]

IMO there is great creedence to the conspiracy theories involving the price of gold and 9/11. In terms of who profited, who knows, but it appears that someone most certainly did (greatly so) in a monetary sense.

The AT rules governing the topic seem decent enough to allow for some good discussion within respectful boundaries.

 

[HeXploiT]

For the record I have read this and everyones pm's on the subject.
I am being very patient with my response.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Perry404
For the record I have read this and everyones pm's on the subject.
I am being very patient with my response.

Thanks...and we are still discussing it.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
IMO there is great creedence to the conspiracy theories involving the price of gold and 9/11. In terms of who profited, who knows, but it appears that someone most certainly did (greatly so) in a monetary sense.

The AT rules governing the topic seem decent enough to allow for some good discussion within respectful boundaries.

Don't expect any respect from me if you want to link 9/11 to a plot to raise the price of gold. That is the problem with 9/11 threads. Anybody can makup their own conspiraxy and expect to be taken seriously.

Keep them locked up mods. Please.

 

[Rainsford]

After some moderator discussion, we've decided that it makes sense to allow one thread on the topic to start out. If that thread can exist without undue flames or rehashing the same basic argument (on both sides) over and over and over, then the topic will be opened up further.

 

[HeXploiT]

Thanks I appreciate it. Now I can reserve the passionate argument I was going to make for other things.
One note...I hope the MODS will pay close attention to exactly who is starting the flames in these threads.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Perry404
Thanks I appreciate it. Now I can reserve the passionate argument I was going to make for other things.
One note...I hope the MODS will pay close attention to exactly who is starting the flames in these threads.

We're keeping a close eye on the new thread.