What is a "backup" of your data?

[Zap]

Too many people don't understand what a "backup" is.

RAID of any flavor is NOT a backup.

External HDDs are NOT a backup.

A backup is MULTIPLE COPIES of your data that are SEPARATE from each other.

It doesn't matter what kind of media they are on (blank DVDs, external HDDs, USB flash drives, RAIDed HDDs, cloud storage). If there is not a physically separate copy of the data, the data is not backed up and the drive/media is not "a backup."

Knowledge is power. Use it wisely.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Good post. The biggest issue is having at least one copy that is off site. If that means in your detached garage, that can do, but if it's actually off your property, even better.

I have multiple hard drives I rotate around. Two of them go to the post office maybe once a month, and the rest in another room. I also have a weekly offsite backup job that puts the very most important stuff on an offsite server. Due to my lack of bandwidth I can only pick and choose or the backup would last several months. As I retire hard drives they usually get added to the pool.

One good exercise to do once in a while is go through some of your data, and pretend that entire storage device suddenly failed completely and the data was gone. Then mentally go through the steps you would take to get that data back. Then load up one of those backups and make sure all the files are actually there. Backups are useless if they're not tested once in a while, or at least look at the logs to make sure the files are getting copied. I was looking at my backup logs the other day and noticed lot of I/O errors saying the disk was full. When I renamed some of the folders it started creating them with the new names leaving the old ones behind. So it ran out of space. Had I not caught that the backup would have been useless should I ever need it.

Also when making a backup budget, imagine that you lost all your data. Ask yourself how much money you would be willing to pay to get all that data back, right now. That's your backup budget.

 

[Zap]

The biggest issue is having at least one copy that is off site.

Well, depends on how important the data is. If it is "I will lose my job" critical, then be as paranoid as it takes. If it is "well golly, I will have to go through the inconvenience of re-ripping my 20 CD collection into MP3, and scanning our hard-copy wedding photo album from 20 years ago," then maybe extreme measures are not needed.

What I meant by saying "MULTIPLE COPIES of your data that are SEPARATE from each other" I meant don't just make a copy on the same computer. I've actually encountered people "backing up" by making copies of their important data ONTO THE SAME HARD DRIVE that is their only HDD in the system. D:

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah stuff like movies is not so critical because you can get it back, but documents, code, art and other stuff that took a long time to make and cannot be gotten back should probably be off site or at least out of the house (in case it floods, burns down, etc).

Even a simple document like a resume. Not something you need often, but if you were to lose it, that would royaly suck when you do need it. And code is a big one. If there's something you've been working on for years, losing it would be disastrous and could pretty much shut down whatever that project is.

Pretty much have to decide how important certain data is and back it up accordingly.

 

[KillerBee]

You can always try to sue somebody for your own stupidity

http://www.popphoto.com/news/2012/06/lawyer-sues-apple-dead-time-capsule-lost-photos

 

[mv2devnull]

Pretty much have to decide how important certain data is and back it up accordingly.

This. Furthermore, files that you do change frequently warrant a different backup routine than files that are accessed only once in a blue moon and for which read-only access is sufficient.

On selecting offsite storage locations methods, extremely confidential data and publishable data are different.


There is no 'R' in rAID 0.

 

[talion83]

External HDDs can be a perfectly fine backup - as long as you note the plural 's' on it. To a degree I would also say that a mirrored RAID should always be part of a disk based backup - if you are backing up to a disk (be it local, USB, NAS, SAN...) that unit should be using a mirrored RAID. I don't know if they still do but I recall WD used to make two drive USB/NAS devices that you could put in a mirrored raid.

Using that method helps with the 'you should have multiple copies of...' as it in itself means you have 2 copies of all the backups (I understand your were indicating that a mirrored RAID itself shouldn't be considered a backup...I just want to indicate that a mirrored RAID does have its place in back ups). Now of course that doesn't cover physical destruction/theft of the device - it is simply to cover mechanical failures.

My Dad is a big fan of the 'multiple external' - that guy has about 10 externals floating around between his house, car, and office. The amusing part, for me, is that he doesn't really have a rotation of any sort - it is just a question of what unit is around when he uses it. So he has 10 copies of some data and 1 copy of others.

 

[Zachboy]

Yeah...I sort of learned my lesson with my 3TB "dedicated" movie drive....only one there was....I guess I'll start buying some "external" ones....the more the better....

Hm, speaking of "backup", would it still work if I had more than two drives in one computer that has the exact same copy of everything as the other drives?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Hm, speaking of "backup", would it still work if I had more than two drives in one computer that has the exact same copy of everything as the other drives?

Protects against some risks, but not others.

What if someone makes off with your computer?

 

[Zachboy]

Protects against some risks, but not others.

What if someone makes off with your computer?

Relax, who's gonna make off with my computer? It's like an old ass comp - who's gonna steal that?? Besides - I bet they're more interested in cash/credit cards and the likes and precious *valuable* items.

Heck - I doubt anyone will want to steal a what? - 8 year old computer? Of course...if they check under the hood...I guess they might....but who brings screw drivers into a "burglary"? I don't if I was gonna commit one. Well actually, I might - coz the first thing I'll steal would be the computer(s), I don't care about any of the other *valuable* stuff...

However, most thieves are targeting *valuable* items, and I unless the computer looks good, they won't take it....

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Relax, who's gonna make off with my computer?

I'm relaxed.. it's not my data. You asked, I answered.

Really, do you think the average thief has any idea how old your computer is? Or even what's in it? They break in and they grab whatever looks valuable or interesting, and sort it out later. And electronics of any sort are always near the top of the grab list.

 

[Zachboy]

I'm relaxed.. it's not my data. You asked, I answered.

Really, do you think the average thief has any idea how old your computer is? Or even what's in it? They break in and they grab whatever looks valuable or interesting, and sort it out later. And electronics of any sort are always near the top of the grab list.

Well, if they see the comp still using a CRT monitor, I am sure they'll perceive it as old.

I always thought jewelry was the top priority to grab first....

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Jewelry if they break into a woman's room with a lot of it on display. Depends on the layout of the house and the entry point. Generally speaking, they'll get in, grab the first luggable thing they can find that looks expensive, and get out.

If there's no alarm system and they think they have time (nobody's home) they might root around or check out all your rooms. Tower PCs are lower on the list than, say, laptops, but they'll steal one if there's not much else.

 

[Zachboy]

Jewelry if they break into a woman's room with a lot of it on display. Depends on the layout of the house and the entry point. Generally speaking, they'll get in, grab the first luggable thing they can find that looks expensive, and get out.

If there's no alarm system and they think they have time (nobody's home) they might root around or check out all your rooms. Tower PCs are lower on the list than, say, laptops, but they'll steal one if there's not much else.

I'll always be at home...unless my parents kick me out for a good reason or I get a job....or I have something that requires me out the house. Of course when Uni semester starts, I'll be out the house. ...or a combination of those; but I am usually at home either tinkering with computer things or playing games on the computer. ...hehehe, so much for a social life....

Hahah - my first defense system against intruders would be electric fences. + security camera all around the house and that makes it thief proof!

 

[Jeff7]

Um....well, my USB thumbdrive, maybe?
I always carry it with me, and it's got all my financial documents, passwords, and various important things on it.


In a Truecrypt volume. Thoroughly encrypted. With a long password.

Doesn't do much if I happen to be home at the time though.

I was thinking about privacy concerns with backing up data remotely, but I guess you could always just use a Truecrypt volume for that as well.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

All my HDDs with media (music and films) are backed up (1:1 copy) on identical, separate HDDs, which are kept in static bags, in a shielded storage cabinet. Overkill? Perhaps. But definitely safe.

 

[Railgun]

ISo I'll play devil's advocate.

I'll say a good six years of various R(edundant)AID setups as my ONLY backup/storage/copy/whatever solution and not a single file lost, array corrupted, or otherwise including the occurrence of a disk failure or two.

If it's a proper setup, it's fine.

While I agree fire, flood, what have you is not protected against, I proudly and naively put those in the low risk category.

Scoff if you will, but there's nothing wrong with that setup.

I'll come back with my tail between my legs if I lose it all.

 

[Zachboy]

...sadly, no matter how and where you back it up, something bad will happen to it eventually...

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Um....well, my USB thumbdrive, maybe?

Problem with those is the very small chance that they'll erase themselves if some schmuck unplugs them from the computer without properly ejecting them first.

Or getting left in the pants pocket on a cycle through the wash.

There are worse solutions, but imho they're too small and too easy to kill.

Heh... listen to me lecturing like my only "backup" isn't a RAID-1 NAS sitting next to my PC.

 

[rsutoratosu]

I'm still on lto3 tapes at home.. 400/800 un/comp.. Stack of tapes for historical backups

 

[KingFatty]

External HDDs are NOT a backup.

A backup is MULTIPLE COPIES of your data that are SEPARATE from each other.

To clarify, shouldn't that say "A single copy of your data on an External HDD only without being anywhere else is not a backup."

I mean, if you use External HDDs to create multiple copies of your data, isn't that OK? The original post seems contradictory on its face unless the reader can infer the actual meaning that is not contained in the words themselves.

 

[master_shake_]

you could make 100 copies of anything if they're all in the same place that burns down whats the backup??

several online backups is that enough?

several indestructible dvd's in a safe deposit box???

where do you stop and say "wow i sure have enough backups now"

i have a 20tb raid 6 array i guess i could build another but if my house burns down what do i do ??

 

[dma0991]

i have a 20tb raid 6 array i guess i could build another but if my house burns down what do i do ??

Cave painting, they will even outlast you.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

you could make 100 copies of anything if they're all in the same place that burns down whats the backup??

several online backups is that enough?

several indestructible dvd's in a safe deposit box???

where do you stop and say "wow i sure have enough backups now"

i have a 20tb raid 6 array i guess i could build another but if my house burns down what do i do ??

You build another 20TB array and store it in your friend's house. In another state.

Daily syncs, probably at night.

Building an internally redundant, maximum-possible-uptime storage server is... not necessarily my area of expertise though.

 

[Zap]

Hm, speaking of "backup", would it still work if I had more than two drives in one computer that has the exact same copy of everything as the other drives?

That is better than everything on one drive, but not as good as something external to your computer that can be unplugged and put in a safe place.

Way back in the early Kazaa days, a friend of mine got his computer infected with something that turned all his MP3 files into 1k sizes. Yeah, good luck with having all your extra copies on the same computer.

I'll say a good six years of various R(edundant)AID setups as my ONLY backup/storage/copy/whatever solution and not a single file lost, array corrupted, or otherwise including the occurrence of a disk failure or two.

If it's a proper setup, it's fine.
...
Scoff if you will, but there's nothing wrong with that setup.

I'll come back with my tail between my legs if I lose it all.

If the partition gets corrupted or disappears, RAID won't help. Ask Zachboy how that works. :sneaky:

RAID1/5/6/10 helps with not losing data due to physical drive failures (to a point) since the most recent backup. For instance if you do backups every evening, what if you do a lot of important work during the day and one HDD fails after you are done, but before you can do the backup? RAID1/5/6/10 to the rescue!

To clarify, shouldn't that say "A single copy of your data on an External HDD only without being anywhere else is not a backup."

While an external HDD can be used for backing up, the external HDD by and of itself is not a backup.