What if the left gets its way?

[Riprorin]

The left is doing everything it can to undermine that effort in Iraq from claiming that it's a hopeless quagmire, to accusing the president of lying to justfy the war, to publishing false charges against our soldiers.

What if the left is successful and we leave Iraq with our tail between our legs like the terrorists and terrorist states desire?

Do you think that would improve the stability of the Middle East and our homeland security or hurt it?

 

[Steeplerot]

america and israel not meddling in the mideasts affairs (not just ceasing to blow them up anymore) is what the ME demands.

Let the muslims be and watch this all become a non-issue. Best way to progress a opressive regime with outdated human rights is to offer them a chance at freedom of their own making.

People know how to take care of their own opressive governments if they are not manipulated into distractions of uniting with there common local enemies to fight a foreign enemy.

Same thing goes for here, look at how many people let the corruption slide because bush has them scared of terrorists. Democracy is stifled fro moving forward and the corrupt status quo reigns in the name of national pride.

 

[rickn]

if we leave, our good friends in Iran can handle it. Saddam would have been swinging from a crane 2yrs ago

 

[Steeplerot]

and if iran overran iraq when we are finally forced to leave they will get overthrown also by the people, that is as long as we are out of the picture, if not I could see the arab world uniting to stop the western agression, it's already begun.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
and if iran overran iraq when we are finally forced to leave they will get overthrown also by the people, that is as long as we are out of the picture, if not I could see the arab world uniting to stop the western agression, it's already begun.

unlike americans, the iranians have legitimate business to be around there, afterall it is their neighborhood.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The left is doing everything it can to undermine that effort in Iraq ...

I stopped reading right there. This is yet another troll in Rip's campaign of lies and hate.

The Book of Life awaits Rip. How are you going to justify to God the hurt you've done in His name?

 

[BBond]

What if the left get's its way?
Will it be a good thing or a bad thing?

It is always a good thing whenever justice is done

No matter who demands that justice. Whether you label them left, right, or center.

Listen to Amnesty International's Executive Director, William Schultz, HERE

I pray that some nation has the courage to seize the honor of demanding that the criminal enterprise known as the Bush administration is brought to justice. This is OUR only hope and the only hope for the world.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Bush did lie to start and to justify the war. Your point being? That people should not question the president and not think for themselves? There is a different word for a government like that, it's called 'dictatorship'.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Bush did lie to start and to justify the war. Your point being? That people should not question the president and not think for themselves? There is a different word for a government like that, it's called 'dictatorship'.

Please don't forget their use of torture, justified by Gonzales at Bush's request, as well as their use of surrogates through "extraordinary rendition".

Surrogates like Bush's good friend and fellow criminal, President Karimov of Uzbekistan.

 

[BBond]

PS RIP

This seems to be what happens then the right gets their way.

 

[Riprorin]

If the leftist had their way, and we hadn't "meddled", the Taliban and Saddam would still be in power. Do you think that would be a good thing?

Let's look at all of the successes:

Pluarilstic democratically elected gov'ts are in power in Iraq and Afghansistan.

Popular resistance is increasing in Iran

Pakistan has become an ally in the war on terror

The American military is leaving Saudi Arabia as they are no longer needed to protect against Saddam

Yemen, who was useless after the attack on the USS Cole, is starting to cooperate

Syria has pulled out of Lebanon

Jordan and Kuwait are more secure

There's new hope for a Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement

And the list goes on and on.

 

[0marTheZealot]

If the "left" had its way from the '50s, those governments wouldn't be in place in the first place.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
If the leftist had their way, and we hadn't "meddled", the Taliaban and Saddam would still be in power. Do you think that would be a good thing?

(snipped irrelevant fluff)

Who was against removing the Taliban from power? At the time, I don't remember mass protests from either side. The protests have been over Iraq. Of course, now that a bit of closure has come to Afghanistan, it turns out that we didn't do such a good job there, but I don't think many people were opposed to military action there. Don't try to lump those two together.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
If the leftist had their way, and we hadn't "meddled", the Taliaban and Saddam would still be in power. Do you think that would be a good thing?

Let's look at all of the successes:

Pluarilstic democratically elected gov'ts are in power in Iraq and Afghansistan.

Popular resistance is increasing in Iran

Pakistan has become an ally in the war on terror

The American military is leaving Saudi Arabia as they are no longer needed to protect against Saddam

Yemen, who was useless after the attack on the USS Cole, is starting to cooperate

Syria has pulled out of Lebanon

Jordan and Kuwait are more secure

There's new hope for Palestinian peace agreement

And the list goes on and on.

You're living in a fantasy world brought on by reading too much administration propaganda disguised as "news".

Read on -- if you aren't too lazy to read, like most Americans.

Stripping Rumsfeld and Bush of Impunity

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Ah yes, Saudi Arabia, the country with more Al Qaida members than the rest of the world combined, and an ultra rich elite which keeps the dictatorship intact by use of force (and by torturing opponents)

The perfect example of the world as Bush wants it to be.

There is still no evidence that Saddam had WMDs, nor that he was harboring or helping terrorists. There is plenty of evidence though that Iraq had oil.

There is evidence that the Sudan government is killing hundreds of thousands of people. They don't have WMDs either, and also don't seem to be helping terrorists.
But... They also do not have oil, so Bush couldn't care less about the genocide taking place there.

Bush has nothing to do with Syria pulling out of Lebanon.

Only reason the resistance against the regime is rising in Iran is because they had a democratically chosen government which was quite liberal, but while Bush was in power the conservatives there kicked out the liberal government and turned it back into a dictatorship. And Bush didn't do a thing.

The current leader of Pakistan has always been a US ally, and uses serious force against anyone opposing him in his country. And there is a huge support for Al-Qaida and the Taliban in Pakistan. When he dies the Taliban will have another country.

The Taliban are gaining more and more power again in Afghanistan, and have killed a lot of pro-democracy people in the past months.

Kuwait has always been quite liberal, and has not changed much recently.

Jordan is facing more and more extremists again.


Let's look at Bush' successes: His die-hard followers like Riprorin swallow so many of his lies they can now act as spermbanks.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

What if the left is successful and we leave Iraq with our tail between our legs like the terrorists and terrorist states desire?

Nice loaded question dope. If the left was in charge we wouldn't be in Iraq. If they were in charge now, we'd see more international support OR a slow withdrawal (making best out of a bad situation).

Do you think that would improve the stability of the Middle East and our homeland security or hurt it?

It would help it all.

 

[krcat1]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
If the "left" had its way from the '50s, those governments wouldn't be in place in the first place.

Let's see. When Carter was Pres, The Soviet brutally invaded Afghansistan, religious fanatics gained control of Iran, and Marxist took part of Central American. In all cases, people were free and had full civil rights, right?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: krcat1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
If the "left" had its way from the '50s, those governments wouldn't be in place in the first place.

Let's see. When Carter was Pres, The Soviet brutally invaded Afghansistan, religious fanatics gained control of Iran, and Marxist took part of Central American. In all cases, people were free and had full civil rights, right?

Don't forget to mention that the US trained and equipped the future Taliban, while at that point they already voiced more hate towards the US than even towards the USSR. But they weren't near the US, so that was ok.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The left is doing everything it can to undermine that effort in Iraq from claiming that it's a hopeless quagmire, to accusing the president of lying to justfy the war, to publishing false charges against our soldiers.

What if the left is successful and we leave Iraq with our tail between our legs like the terrorists and terrorist states desire?

Do you think that would improve the stability of the Middle East and our homeland security or hurt it?

Stop lying.

The left doesn't want to pull out of Iraq. We want stability. So take your thread and eat it.

 

[totalcommand]

What if the Right got its way and the government only taxed the poor?

What if the Right got its way and judges were killed for their rulings?

What if the Right got its way and destroyed every part of the environment in this country?

What if the Right got its way and destroyed Social Security?

What if the Right got its way and Health Care was given only to the rich?

....


I'm waiting Riprorin.

 

[arsbanned]

"The Left". Heh. wtf is this guy on about.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Who drew the line in Europe and Korea with respect to the communists?

The Dems were in power at the start of the WWII appeasement.

Both sides can claim credit and problems.

More has to do with the internal situation of the country than who is in control/power when a crisis develops.

Usually delaying the confrontation ends up being more costly in the long run. Allows the opponents to strengthen their forces and detect/exploit weakness in the offense.

 

[Pandaren]

From a Libertarian standpoint, here is what I have to say about your post, Rip.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
If the leftist had their way, and we hadn't "meddled", the Taliban and Saddam would still be in power. Do you think that would be a good thing?

Nice straw man. Nobody denied that the Taliban harbored Al Queda terrorists and deserved to be run out of Kabul. As for Saddam, he had nothing to do with 9-11, his nuclear program was in pieces, and no chem/bioweapons are anywhere to be found.

Let's look at all of the successes:

Pluarilstic democratically elected gov'ts are in power in Iraq and Afghansistan.

No quarels with Afghanistan's government - things are rough but at least the government there is seen as legit. In Iraq, the government doesn't have good control over the country. I think it is more than a stretch to say they are "in power."

Popular resistance is increasing in Iran

But all the saber rattling over the Nuclear issue is making Iranians resistant to negotiation with the West. Young Iranians might not like Ayatollahs telling them what to do, but they sure as hell don't want people like YOU telling them what they can and cannot build.

Pakistan has become an ally in the war on terror

And if Pervez Musharaf gets assassinated, Pakistan's status as a 'friendly' nation becomes extremely tenuous. Why we support this dictatorship more than we support Democratic India is beyond me. It seems hypocritical that we preach 'democratically elected' govt's yet support Pakistan's government.

The American military is leaving Saudi Arabia as they are no longer needed to protect against Saddam

Good.

Yemen, who was useless after the attack on the USS Cole, is starting to cooperate

Starting?

Syria has pulled out of Lebanon

This has little to do with the current Adminstration IMO. Many of the Arab nations were pressuring Syria to leave.

There's new hope for a Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement

And the list goes on and on.

Because Arafat, the useless terrorist, is now dead. Not because of anything else.

It's people like you, with their arrogant meddling ways, who end up causing a lot of the animosity against the United States. I don't want big government politicians interfering in my life as a US citizen, and I think that people abroad don't want our big government politicians meddling in their affairs either.

 

[Rainsford]

Ignoring Rip's truly silly characterization of the left, what if we DID pull out? Surely people in the Middle East now have a taste for choosing their own fate. If nothing else, the Iraqis have certainly shown they are interested in Democracy. Do we really lack enough respect for the Iraqis that we think they would just lay down for those who wish to rule them if we left? I certainly don't.

This is why people dislike the US, our national attitude towards everyone else is that they are little children who can't do anything without our help. I think we underestimate the Iraqi's desire to choose their own fate, and they would probably keep trying to do it even without us.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pandaren
From a Libertarian standpoint, here is what I have to say about your post, Rip.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
If the leftist had their way, and we hadn't "meddled", the Taliban and Saddam would still be in power. Do you think that would be a good thing?

Nice straw man. Nobody denied that the Taliban harbored Al Queda terrorists and deserved to be run out of Kabul. As for Saddam, he had nothing to do with 9-11, his nuclear program was in pieces, and no chem/bioweapons are anywhere to be found.

Let's look at all of the successes:

Pluarilstic democratically elected gov'ts are in power in Iraq and Afghansistan.

No quarels with Afghanistan's government - things are rough but at least the government there is seen as legit. In Iraq, the government doesn't have good control over the country. I think it is more than a stretch to say they are "in power."

Popular resistance is increasing in Iran

But all the saber rattling over the Nuclear issue is making Iranians resistant to negotiation with the West. Young Iranians might not like Ayatollahs telling them what to do, but they sure as hell don't want people like YOU telling them what they can and cannot build.

Pakistan has become an ally in the war on terror

And if Pervez Musharaf gets assassinated, Pakistan's status as a 'friendly' nation becomes extremely tenuous. Why we support this dictatorship more than we support Democratic India is beyond me. It seems hypocritical that we preach 'democratically elected' govt's yet support Pakistan's government.

The American military is leaving Saudi Arabia as they are no longer needed to protect against Saddam

Good.

Yemen, who was useless after the attack on the USS Cole, is starting to cooperate

Starting?

Syria has pulled out of Lebanon

This has little to do with the current Adminstration IMO. Many of the Arab nations were pressuring Syria to leave.

There's new hope for a Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement

And the list goes on and on.

Because Arafat, the useless terrorist, is now dead. Not because of anything else.

It's people like you, with their arrogant meddling ways, who end up causing a lot of the animosity against the United States. I don't want big government politicians interfering in my life as a US citizen, and I think that people abroad don't want our big government politicians meddling in their affairs either.

:thumbsup: