What if people actually sat down to read all those legal papers they sign?

[ShadowOfMyself]

Of course everyone in ATOT reads every document, just like everyone cleans the ice on their cars, etc etc

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: binister

Originally posted by: Tobolo
I wont sign a contract without signing. To do so would be completely asinine.

Are all you "I read everything I sign" folks really telling me you have read/would read the 1000+ pages of documentation you sign when buying a house?

I am sorry I wasn't more clear. I read 99.9% of everything I sign. The documents that I sign that are extremely significant I pay an attorney to read for me. Hell, I had my attorney review my home owners and flood insurance policies.

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Are you serious? I read every single scrap of paper that I am asked to sign. Who in their right mind signs a contract without actually reading it?

You own a house? That is some serious reading.

See above.

 

[Skacer]

Man, when I got my car loan there was a whole friggen stack of papers. I signed it all blind, the guy said "well it basically says this...". Signed. It made the process go smoothly but I can see how that might bother some people. Of course, buying a house is a whole different story. My loan on my car was only 10k.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: ZippyDan
wrong. generally contract law says that if a person doesnt really understand what they are agreeing to, then the contract is not valid. thats why a contract signed by a drunk is invalid. and that lack of understanding being important to the validity of a contract is the point the professor was trying to make

I disagree. Contract law is generally a state matter, and states will vary wildly; some are in fact extremely lenient in contract interpretation when the parties are not 'equals' - a regular Joe consumer vs. a major corporation with a whole team of lawyers. Nevertheless, many courts WILL hold an adult of sound mind (most of us) to the terms of a contract despite the volumes of 'legalese' within, and generally an 'ignorance' defense will not save you. I'd never sign a complicated contract without understanding the terms first, and just hope it'd never be enforceable in court.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: kranky
When we bought our house I told the agent that I would need to read over all the documents before I signed at the closing, so it would be best if he could get them to me in advance of the closing. He told me that was not possible.

So at the closing, I read through every paper before signing. I could see the people getting angry at how long it was taking, so I just mentioned to everyone that I was sorry for the delay but I had told the agent I wasn't going to sign anything I hadn't read. The attorney let out a big sigh to make sure I knew he wasn't happy. They had other closings scheduled and instead of an hour it took two. Not my fault. It's lucky that I'm a fast reader or it would have taken three hours.

You can't let those people intimidate you into rushing through a real estate deal, a loan, or anything else. The person who creates the documents is going to make sure their end is covered, right? Since you don't write them, you sure as hell better read them.

I see people spending more time trying to protect themselves on a $25 ebay deal than they do when buying a $100,000 house. Think about it.

Smart move. I did the same.

 

[Safeway]

I read everything on my leases, contracts, loan papers, etc.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: binister
Do you guys also read every EULA?

EULAs are nonsense. Won't hold up in court if seriously challenged.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: ZippyDan

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: Dirigible
My contracts professor in law school admitted he didn't read most of the stuff he signed. Then he started trying to read one and it was all a bunch of confusing crap. "If I, a contracts professor, have a hard time making heads or tails of this, then you know the average person is completely clueless. Conclusion: these contracts should be worthless and tossed out of court if a disagreement arises, since there is no meeting of the minds."

that is actually pretty intresting... you'd think a contracts prof would be fluent in bullshit.

What it shows is this professor has no real world experience.

All contracts are poorly written to protect a certain party. It is the duty of the the people signing it to understand these terms. If they don't, well...they get what they deserve.

wrong. generally contract law says that if a person doesnt really understand what they are agreeing to, then the contract is not valid. thats why a contract signed by a drunk is invalid. and that lack of understanding being important to the validity of a contract is the point the professor was trying to make

of course that is an oversimplification as there are degrees of understanding and degrees of validity, but contract disputes usually boil down to common sense and judges' sanity, not to whether you read every line...

So in essence, just claim you were drunk or high on smack when you signed a contract and you can get out of it.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: kranky
When we bought our house I told the agent that I would need to read over all the documents before I signed at the closing, so it would be best if he could get them to me in advance of the closing. He told me that was not possible.

So at the closing, I read through every paper before signing. I could see the people getting angry at how long it was taking, so I just mentioned to everyone that I was sorry for the delay but I had told the agent I wasn't going to sign anything I hadn't read. The attorney let out a big sigh to make sure I knew he wasn't happy. They had other closings scheduled and instead of an hour it took two. Not my fault. It's lucky that I'm a fast reader or it would have taken three hours.

You can't let those people intimidate you into rushing through a real estate deal, a loan, or anything else. The person who creates the documents is going to make sure their end is covered, right? Since you don't write them, you sure as hell better read them.

I see people spending more time trying to protect themselves on a $25 ebay deal than they do when buying a $100,000 house. Think about it.

Smart move. I did the same.

see i had a lawyer (extra $400) to read everything for me. To make sure everything was fair for me.

i can read everything all i want. that does not mean i will understand everything. I am willing to pay extra to be safe.

 

[torpid]

I read everything. I like legalese because I like trying to decipher it. But I don't think most people have that kind of mentality. I read supreme court decisions quite often as well. It's amazing how incredibly bastardized people's interpretations of the supreme court decisions are by the time they get to be word of mouth.

 

[markgm]

I read everything on documents that are important, such as my mortgage.

 

[ZippyDan]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: ZippyDan
wrong. generally contract law says that if a person doesnt really understand what they are agreeing to, then the contract is not valid. thats why a contract signed by a drunk is invalid. and that lack of understanding being important to the validity of a contract is the point the professor was trying to make

I disagree. Contract law is generally a state matter, and states will vary wildly; some are in fact extremely lenient in contract interpretation when the parties are not 'equals' - a regular Joe consumer vs. a major corporation with a whole team of lawyers. Nevertheless, many courts WILL hold an adult of sound mind (most of us) to the terms of a contract despite the volumes of 'legalese' within, and generally an 'ignorance' defense will not save you. I'd never sign a complicated contract without understanding the terms first, and just hope it'd never be enforceable in court.

firstly, a lot of contract code starts from a uniform position and then you are correct there are lots of variations from state to state but overall i stand by what i said. what is a reasonable contract article will vary from state to state and judge to judge. my point was an oversimplification - that you dont have to worry about getting royally screwed by something unreasonable when not reading a contract - but the degree to which you can get screwed is of course a risk you take by not reading.

So in essence, just claim you were drunk or high on smack when you signed a contract and you can get out of it.

this happens all the time, because of what i said above. the claiming part anyway... how often it works i know not. contract code generally allows for that as a valid defense (get-out-of-contract-card,) but determining whether the claim is valid is up to the judge and that is where the uncertainty lies

 

[MotionMan]

I don't understand any of that legal mumbo-jumbo.

I let my wife read it all and explain it to me.

MotionMan

 

[potato28]

I read them all.

 

[Slew Foot]

If people didnt read everything they signed then the government would force the ones that did to bail out the ones that didnt when they learned they couldn't afford the crap they bought.