What if it was the whitey's fault all the time when crimes are done by minorities?

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Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
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so a caste system removes a portion of human capital from achieving its highest potential.

This shows clearly that you know nothing about the caste system. Caste-based abuse did keep people down however caste system in its true form makes everyone realize their full potential. Quite the opposite from what you've stated.
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,989
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I'm not sure if I like you or not. I can see your point about India but your past ramblings about Hindu Superiority bothers me as any individual stating that their religion is superior would bother me.

I suppose you'd be "bothered" by someone stating that his Ferrari Enzo is superior to another's Hyundai Accent as well? This is analogous to that.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
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First, I don't use the word "untouchable" sarcastically. Idiots like Infohawk, JohnofSheffield etc. are indeed untouchables. Of that, there is no doubt. It is not politically correct to call them out on it but so what? I guess the "troof hurfs"!

And, are you seriously a Hindu? What sect are you? I have yet to meet a real Hindu, and one who thinks of himself as a nationalist as well, think caste is "cruel". Don't you realize that caste and caste-based abuse are two totally separate things? You're feeding into the hands of untouchables like Infohawk et. al by stating what you have.

The caste system is the only reason India is still Hindu majority. This is exactly why the anti-Hindus and anti-Indians want to destroy caste system is to weaken Hindus' collective conscience further. The reason every group remained with themselves and maintained order is the reason that the Vedas and other scriptures are still with us to this day.

No Hindu nationalist thinks "caste" by itself is 'bad' or 'cruel'. Caste-based abuse is cruel and that needs to go.

If you doubt that, think of it in these terms: birth according to Hindu Dharma is NOT accidental. How can you explain the various situations in which people around the world are born into? Karma. This karma is determined by the actions and character of that individual in the previous/past life/lives. The combination of those three qualities (action, character, and lineage) is what forms VARNA or caste. Don't confuse that with vocations which were determined at birth, called JATI.

Please read up on it some more before you state something completely antipodal to what the philosophy states.

And, if you doubt VARNA still, think of svadharma. How is that a Brahmin's upanayana is done at the age of 3-5 if ONLY his character/action come into play? Birth is not the only thing, but it is also a factor.

At least read the Gita in which Sri Krishna describes the nature of the three gunas and their permutations that give rise to the various VARNA.

I'm just clearing up some erroneous things you've stated. Not trying to attack you.

Wow, what a jackass. I suppose it's a good thing proclaiming yourself a Ferrari doesn't actually make you a Ferrari. And spitting on other people by calling them untouchables doesn't really further your cause.

Revel in your perceived superiority, I will go back to playing with my untouchable kids who have untouchable western healthcare, and untouchable western life expectancy. I will relax in my large untouchable western house, on a street that has traffic lights, laws and no dirty ass cows wandering around unfettered.

Let me know when your "superior" culture and religion gets out of it's own way.

I will go back to my desert cult (Judaism) and continue to actually have positive impact on the world.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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This shows clearly that you know nothing about the caste system. Caste-based abuse did keep people down however caste system in its true form makes everyone realize their full potential. Quite the opposite from what you've stated.
Believe that everyone's true potential is preordained based on the circumstances of their birth is in large part what keeps India wallowing in its own feces rather than rising up to its potential. Proclaiming your country's and people's superiority when it and they are unable to provide clean water and sanitation for its citizens merely makes you look foolish. First you master the flush toilet, THEN you go after greatness.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,767
435
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Believe that everyone's true potential is preordained based on the circumstances of their birth is in large part what keeps India wallowing in its own feces rather than rising up to its potential. Proclaiming your country's and people's superiority when it and they are unable to provide clean water and sanitation for its citizens merely makes you look foolish. First you master the flush toilet, THEN you go after greatness.

Part of the west's success is diversity and universal availability of educations.

The son of a mechanic can become an Engineer, a doctor etc.

So this provides a wide talent pool.

Belief in any caste terms would lead to a rigid and generational class system which would be inefficient and cruel at once.

A farmer's son must be able to become a general and his grandson, a doctor.

Full potential is reached when passion meets professional skills, not codes of Hinduism as wrongly interpreted by men.
 
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Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,989
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Braznor or any other Hindu has every right to opine on the caste system's effects as they see it. The only issue is when one implies that the purpose of the caste system was to keep people down in society.

The fundamental difference in Hindu philosophy is that although the soul, known as AtmAn is non-different from paramAtman (Brahman), the "clouded" soul, or jIvAtman which determines incarnation (birth), are indeed different. This is no excuse to abuse anyone. However, one must recognize that all incarnations are NOT equal! Different people, animals, even inanimate objects have their purpose and strengths.

This oft-repeated nonsense that "all is same" is a recipe for disaster. Just because the mouth and the anus are both orifices does not mean one can eat through either of them. They both have their own purpose.
Of course, as Braznor has stated, one must definitely have the freedom to choose what field they want to study and become a professional in. Caste system has nothing to do with that. The abuse of the system has kept people pigeon-holed into professions they had neither aptitude for nor interest in.

As I've explained before in another post, VARNA is the inner quality while JATI refers to birth-based vocation. The two cannot be used interchangeably and thus the caste system is not at all rigid as it is erroneously assumed to be and as it has become over the past couple of centuries. Jati somewhat affects the Varna and thus the "caste" of one person became rigid over time. It is hard to be passionate and successful in astrophysics when one has been brought up by farmers. Of course, it's not impossible, but the chances of that person (farmer) becoming a successful astrophysicist is quite small. Someone from an academic household or household of scientists is much more likely to take that path. The same is applied when it comes to study of the Scriptures. One is much more likely to pursue the study of the nature of reality when one has been brought up in that surrounding.

In ancient India, when the traditional education system was prevalent (gurukula), students learned the various subjects such as academic inquiry ranging from mathematics, astronomy, and medicine, as well as learning practical disciplines such as warfare, statecraft, archery, wrestling etc. Combined with this was the study of the Scriptures (Vedas) which included Yoga, dhyAnA (meditation) etc. According to Hindu scripture, only those who are twice-born (dvIjA) should be allowed to learn the Vedas. Since the twice-born are comprised of the three castes of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, and Vaisyas, Hindu society was at the zenith of the world in all aspects. The Sudras or laborers were mainly trained in vocational disciplines from within their families.

A holistic system that includes practicals, theory, and application are fundamental to experiencing that which we learn. The Hindu system of gurukula was exactly this. It was no surprise that since Brahmins were always in the field of scholarship and research, they excelled even in the secular education imposed by the British after they rendered the gurukula system untenable.

In fact, nobody is kept out of getting a good education today. What is really surprising is that India has implemented an affirmative action type scheme of its own, just infinitely worse than the affirmative action found in the US. A student from a "low" caste family needs to score only nominally in the entrance exams to get admission; whereas, a Brahmin, no matter how poor he may be, can't even think of getting admission to the really sought after disciplines such as medicine, engineering, and other sciences unless he scores above 95%. IITs, being the sole exception of a government run institution, has maintained its meritocratic policy and is dominated by Brahmins both in professorship and scholarship (students). It is because of this "reservation" policy, as its known, many brilliant Indians emigrated to the west in the 1960s and 1970s. India, keeping talent down, is only now realizing that merely sidelining people for the sake of votes is not helpful. This reservation policy is the worst form of caste based abuse ever. Instead of taking a student's economic and educational background into consideration, they are given admission and priority based on what caste (Jati) they are from. If one is an outcaste, the easier it is for them to get into a good program. If India went back to its Hindu principles of governance, it will surely rise back to the top the of the world without causing any harm or bloodshed. In some ways, Indian culture, that is Hindu culture, has already accomplished that. Yoga, vegetarianism, principle of non-violence and others have become incredibly popular around the world without any "marketing" or evangelism by Hindus. There are many people who are not Hindus who find the principles of Karma and reincarnation esoteric and have researched those topics studiously. The whole field of NDEs (Near Death Experience) has made a tremendous impact on westerners' minds on the notion of reincarnation.

It is best to leave out any discussion of caste when talking about Hinduism with non-Hindus. When devious people who want to create trouble start attacking Hindus with it, they must be given fitting replies.

Although an eye for an eye may make the world blind, I like the idea of two eyes for an eye and an entire jaw for a tooth (motto of BJP :D)!

Jai Hind!
 
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Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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It is best to leave out any discussion of caste when talking about Hinduism with non-Hindus. When devious people who want to create trouble start attacking Hindus with it, they must be given fitting replies.

You can't even heed your own advice jackass. And it's mostly YOU who attacks non-Hindus with it, as a thinly-veiled racist attack.
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,989
20
81
Believe that everyone's true potential is preordained based on the circumstances of their birth is in large part what keeps India wallowing in its own feces rather than rising up to its potential. Proclaiming your country's and people's superiority when it and they are unable to provide clean water and sanitation for its citizens merely makes you look foolish. First you master the flush toilet, THEN you go after greatness.

Apart from your asinine comments, the aspect you just can't grasp is that birth is a PART of what caste someone is. Not the entire thing. Birth (surroundings), actions, and character (developed through proper education and action) determine one's caste.

One's strengths may not lie in accordance with their interests. Remember, Hindu society is about the society and self-abnegation; not individuality. That is the antithesis of western "civilization". Thus, caste seems "cruel" to hedonistic curs who think only of their interests, wants, and desires. After all, caste may require people to set aside their whimsical desires and apply themselves towards the betterment of society as a whole. Caste is intertwined with personal 'duty' which is anathema to the west where everyone runs away from their duties under the euphemism of "freedom".

And, present day India's situation is because of degradation of Hindu society as a result of barbarian invasions for over 1300 years. A society or country cannot just shrug off a millenium of subjugation in a few decades.

Also, what is your preoccupation with the flush toilet? At least Indians WASH their asses after taking a dump. Using paper to smear it all over should make you the last person to talk about hygiene
 
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Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,989
20
81
You can't even heed your own advice jackass. And it's mostly YOU who attacks non-Hindus with it, as a thinly-veiled racist attack.

Idiot, any time I've talked about caste, it was when morons like you attacked it. "racist attack"? hahahah.. nice try.

Lesson 1 dumbo: caste has nothing to do with race.
 
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