What has happened to the GOP stance on immigration since 1980?

[Newell Steamer]

Because those immigrants are getting into politics/businesses and are affecting the direction of this country. Conservatives want the dirt cheap labor and the ability to exploit a desperate work force. But, that work force dare not ask for a seat at the table.

 

[michal1980]

Because those immigrants are getting into politics/businesses and are affecting the direction of this country. Conservatives want the dirt cheap labor and the ability to exploit a desperate work force. But, that work force dare not ask for a seat at the table.

so what is the lefts excuse?

 

[First]

Two things here. First, I have seen construction laborer wages fall just in the last twenty years. Drywallers used to earn nearly what electrical journeymen and sheet metal workers earned. Now they earn roughly half that, and the biggest reason is that drywallers typically are not unionized and do not have formal apprenticeship school programs, and thus are much more vulnerable to competition from illegals.

Second, it is worth pointing out that both construction and gardening used to be valid avenues to the middle class. This is obviously not nearly so much the case today.

Yeah I've seen the same thing, I've got plenty of anecdotal evidence and some papers I've read on the wage suppression in construction because of illegal immigrants. They've had a suppressing impact on wages in that industry, no question. How much, and whether it's severe, I don't think it easy to know. I do know that the net effect, taking into account the benefits to homeowners and contractor bottom-lines, as well as the improvement in quality of life for every homeowner that couldn't find a reliable, affordable housekeeper, gardener or nanny, is real and notable. I don't think for a second we can ignore those positive impacts.

I would further add that construction, like a lot of manual labor jobs, aren't as desired by native-born Americans, and were in short supply before the boom in illegal immigration from Mexico. There's no question to anyone in the real estate industry that you couldn't meet the demand of construction without illegal labor, which is unfortunate but true, so in many ways those south of the border saw that, heard about that demand and it's a big reason they come, because their labor was so desired. It's a very natural free market force. But the focus shouldn't be on making it illegal to hire that labor, it should be on enforcing stricter wage laws on contractors, including OT, and making sure that the border is both safer and better monitored so there are fewer illegal immigrants coming across. That last part conservatives are right about, just for the wrong reasons (which, to about half of conservatives, is because illegal immigrants are "Foreigners!"). But that border security needs to be simultaneous with more federal dollars flowing to legal migration causes, because the demand for construction labor in particular is critical to meeting the demands of the economy. Real estate has an outsized impact on growth, always has.

 

[michal1980]

Yeah I've seen the same thing, I've got plenty of anecdotal evidence and some papers I've read on the wage suppression in construction because of illegal immigrants. They've had a suppressing impact on wages in that industry, no question. How much, and whether it's severe, I don't think it easy to know. I do know that the net effect, taking into account the benefits to homeowners and contractor bottom-lines, as well as the improvement in quality of life for every homeowner that couldn't find a reliable, affordable housekeeper, gardener or nanny, is real and notable. I don't think for a second we can ignore those positive impacts.

I would further add that construction, like a lot of manual labor jobs, aren't as desired by native-born Americans, and were in short supply before the boom in illegal immigration from Mexico. There's no question to anyone in the real estate industry that you couldn't meet the demand of construction without illegal labor, which is unfortunate but true, so in many ways those south of the border saw that, heard about that demand and it's a big reason they come, because their labor was so desired. It's a very natural free market force. But the focus shouldn't be on making it illegal to hire that labor, it should be on enforcing stricter wage laws on contractors, including OT, and making sure that the border is both safer and better monitored so there are fewer illegal immigrants coming across. That last part conservatives are right about, just for the wrong reasons (which, to about half of conservatives, is because illegal immigrants are "Foreigners!"). But that border security needs to be simultaneous with more federal dollars flowing to legal migration causes, because the demand for construction labor in particular is critical to meeting the demands of the economy. Real estate has an outsized impact on growth, always has.

At current wages.

A american for the most part had at the very least attend and graduate high school, and had an ok standard of living.

To do 'hard' labor the pay would have to at least reflect some of those standards.

Instead because of the flood of illegal immigrants, the pay for these jobs reflects the standard of living from where the illegal immigrants came.


If the labor markets would tighten, wages would have to go up and at a certain point the 'natives' would once again be interested in do that work.

 

[alcoholbob]

so what is the lefts excuse?

If you don't accept unlimited illegal immigration then you are a racist. The usual.

 

[Vic]

The GOP has been infiltrated by the modern day Know Nothings.

 

[brycejones]

If you don't accept unlimited illegal immigration then you are a racist. The usual.

Damn dude you kicked the crap out of that straw man.

 

[Indus]

So all those illegals raping, murdering people are just made up and take?

Ps why do you hate Americans?

Yes why do you hate Americans? Your ancestors had no problem raping, murdering Americans and taking over their land!

It was their land before your ancestors arrived, you know!

 

[alcoholbob]

At current wages.

A american for the most part had at the very least attend and graduate high school, and had an ok standard of living.

To do 'hard' labor the pay would have to at least reflect some of those standards.

Instead because of the flood of illegal immigrants, the pay for these jobs reflects the standard of living from where the illegal immigrants came.


If the labor markets would tighten, wages would have to go up and at a certain point the 'natives' would once again be interested in do that work.

The majority of construction workers in the south in the beginning of the 20th century were black. Now black Americans have been largely replaced in these fields by immigrant labor, both legal and illegal. Without the welfare state and the 22 trillion dollars that have been spent fighting "poverty" since the Lyndon Johnson's guns and butter administration, most blacks today would still be employed with an intact nuclear family.

 

[First]

The majority of construction workers in the south in the beginning of the 20th century were black. Now black Americans have been largely replaced in these fields by immigrant labor, both legal and illegal. Without the welfare state and the 22 trillion dollars that have been spent fighting "poverty" since the Lyndon Johnson's guns and butter administration, most blacks today would still be employed with an intact nuclear family.

Haha, so before the 60's CRA laws, blacks had stable, well-paying jobs and nuclear families in the South? They owned property and had wealth? Participated in elections and help public office!? What a wonderful world they must have lived in!

 

[alcoholbob]

Haha, so before the 60's CRA laws, blacks had stable, well-paying jobs and nuclear families in the South? They owned property and had wealth? Participated in elections and help public office!? What a wonderful world they must have lived in!

Yes believe it or not black illigeitimacy rates were below 25% in the 1960s. Today it's somewhere between 70-80 percent. It may seem like an eternity ago but the United States in that same period built a heavy lift rocket with more power in its first stage than the entire power grid of the United Kingdom. Decades later the NASA director tells Bush the Constellation Program's heavy lift vehicle is impossible today even with "unlimited funding." It's amazing how much can change in 50-60 years.

 

[First]

Yes believe it or not black illigeitimacy rates were below 25% in the 1960s. Today it's somewhere between 70-80 percent.

The point flew over your head; blacks weren't nearly as wealthy as they are today, didn't own property easily (and in many cases couldn't) or participate essentially at all in public elections before the CRA and War on Poverty. To suggest that black illegitimacy rates or black nuclear families are falling apart because of LBJ policies is a common myth easily debunked when looking at the marriage makeup of non-black families, which have similarly seen a big decline in 2-parent households and "illegitimate" rates. This includes whites.

It may seem like an eternity ago but the United States in that same period built a heavy lift rocket with more power in its first stage than the entire power grid of the United Kingdom. Decades later the NASA director tells Bush the Constellation Program's heavy lift vehicle is impossible today even with "unlimited funding." It's amazing how much can change in 50-60 years.

Haha, no.

 

[michal1980]

Yes why do you hate Americans? Your ancestors had no problem raping, murdering Americans and taking over their land!

It was their land before your ancestors arrived, you know!

that would be the Indians. And what do they have to do with the immigration laws we have today?

nothing.

 

[Indus]

what do they have to do with the immigration laws we have today?

nothing.

Nothing. If we ignore what happened, that makes us even more xenophobic and nativist.

Bottom Line is the Amnesty of Reagan worked as 3 million people became citizens and filed taxes, and another would help America immensely as there would be 33 more million taxpayers!

 

[shira]

The floodgates opened and the problem is way larger than it was in 1980. How many American construction workers were displaced by illegal immigrants in 1980 versus now? Illegal labor wage suppression has affected many industries that were once allowing Americans to earn a living.

As long as companies are willing to hire cheap, illegal labor, illegals will be there to work those jobs. If you want to significantly reduce the problem, strictly (and even-handedly) enforce laws against hiring illegals, and make the penalties sufficiently severe to cause companies think twice.

If we just shifted criminal justice resources from stopping marijuana to stopping the hiring of illegals, we'd be much, much, much better off as a society.

But it's so much easier to blame illegal immigrants for our economic problems.