What has happened to the GOP stance on immigration since 1980?

[Indus]

All you hear is Trump and Coulter demonizing immigration and Rand Paul saying we want our country back.

What happened to this stance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi9_cciy8w&t=1m41s

 

[SlickSnake]

Corporate bought political influence for elections over time finally forced the GOP to stand down on illegal immigration issues once they were all made aware through political contributions how much big business could undercut wages and exploit illegal labor. And this is not just a GOP issue, because clearly both parties are responding to big businesses beck and call over all the business related financial issues, which illegal labor clearly is. The dense smoke screen is that concerned politician's supposedly care about illegal immigrants rights, when the truth is, they only care about cheap farm working and meat processing, or whatever other jobs illegals are forced into performing at far below minimum wages.

 

[rudder]

All you hear is Trump and Coulter demonizing immigration and Rand Paul saying we want our country back.

What happened to this stance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi9_cciy8w&t=1m41s

The floodgates opened and the problem is way larger than it was in 1980. How many American construction workers were displaced by illegal immigrants in 1980 versus now? Illegal labor wage suppression has affected many industries that were once allowing Americans to earn a living.

 

[SlickSnake]

The floodgates opened and the problem is way larger than it was in 1980. How many American construction workers were displaced by illegal immigrants in 1980 versus now? Illegal labor wage suppression has affected many industries that were once allowing Americans to earn a living.

Without a doubt.

 

[First]

The floodgates opened and the problem is way larger than it was in 1980. How many American construction workers were displaced by illegal immigrants in 1980 versus now? Illegal labor wage suppression has affected many industries that were once allowing Americans to earn a living.

Well, when you study the supposed wage suppression issue you find that wages didn't do better or worse during times of low or zero Mexican migration, like in the last few years, despite a massive comeback in real estate. You also didn't see wages come back in previous migration pauses from Mexico, or when illegal migration wasn't a problem in the mid-to-late 70's but wages still remained flat.

There is certainly some wage suppression in the construction industry because of illegal immigration, but that can be traced back to contractors being allowed to get away with paying low wages in the first place, which can be regulated away. But even if you couldn't regulate it away, contractors that can underbid other contractors means a reduction in housing costs for people with homes, so it's an indirect net positive money transfer for those homeowners. Of course, you have to have money to be a homeowner most of the time, so illegal immigration will exacerbate wage inequality for non-homeowners who are low-skilled and low-income. Of course, low-skilled low-income workers haven't done well in non-construction fields the last 40 years either, a global phenomenon that doesn't have a thing to do with immigration, so it's really more a question of a skills and wealth gap than solely illegal immigrants. They're definitely a well-worn boogeyman for conservatives, but fortunately they clearly don't have a net negative impact even on the poor, many of whom aren't traditionally in the business of housekeeping, babysitting, construction or gardening anyway.

 

[werepossum]

Well, when you study the supposed wage suppression issue you find that wages didn't do better or worse during times of low or zero Mexican migration, like in the last few years, despite a massive comeback in real estate. You also didn't see wages come back in previous migration pauses from Mexico, or when illegal migration wasn't a problem in the mid-to-late 70's but wages still remained flat.

There is certainly some wage suppression in the construction industry because of illegal immigration, but that can be traced back to contractors being allowed to get away with paying low wages in the first place, which can be regulated away. But even if you couldn't regulate it away, contractors that can underbid other contractors means a reduction in housing costs for people with homes, so it's an indirect net positive money transfer for those homeowners. Of course, you have to have money to be a homeowner most of the time, so illegal immigration will exacerbate wage inequality for non-homeowners who are low-skilled and low-income. Of course, low-skilled low-income workers haven't done well in non-construction fields the last 40 years either, a global phenomenon that doesn't have a thing to do with immigration, so it's really more a question of a skills and wealth gap than solely illegal immigrants. They're definitely a well-worn boogeyman for conservatives, but fortunately they clearly don't have a net negative impact even on the poor, many of whom aren't traditionally in the business of housekeeping, babysitting, construction or gardening anyway.

Two things here. First, I have seen construction laborer wages fall just in the last twenty years. Drywallers used to earn nearly what electrical journeymen and sheet metal workers earned. Now they earn roughly half that, and the biggest reason is that drywallers typically are not unionized and do not have formal apprenticeship school programs, and thus are much more vulnerable to competition from illegals.

Second, it is worth pointing out that both construction and gardening used to be valid avenues to the middle class. This is obviously not nearly so much the case today.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Now they earn roughly half that, and the biggest reason is that drywallers typically are not unionized and do not have formal apprenticeship school programs, and thus are much more vulnerable to competition from illegals.

What? They are in Canada
How about Lather or Acoustical Mechanic?
Maybe they are covered in carpenters unions?

 

[michal1980]

what happened to democrats who used to support unions and the middle class?

Now they are willing to flood the labor markets.

 

[michal1980]

Well, when you study the supposed wage suppression issue you find that wages didn't do better or worse during times of low or zero Mexican migration, like in the last few years, despite a massive comeback in real estate. You also didn't see wages come back in previous migration pauses from Mexico, or when illegal migration wasn't a problem in the mid-to-late 70's but wages still remained flat.

There is certainly some wage suppression in the construction industry because of illegal immigration, but that can be traced back to contractors being allowed to get away with paying low wages in the first place, which can be regulated away. But even if you couldn't regulate it away, contractors that can underbid other contractors means a reduction in housing costs for people with homes, so it's an indirect net positive money transfer for those homeowners. Of course, you have to have money to be a homeowner most of the time, so illegal immigration will exacerbate wage inequality for non-homeowners who are low-skilled and low-income. Of course, low-skilled low-income workers haven't done well in non-construction fields the last 40 years either, a global phenomenon that doesn't have a thing to do with immigration, so it's really more a question of a skills and wealth gap than solely illegal immigrants. They're definitely a well-worn boogeyman for conservatives, but fortunately they clearly don't have a net negative impact even on the poor, many of whom aren't traditionally in the business of housekeeping, babysitting, construction or gardening anyway.

Wasn't most/all of the pause in migration due to a down turn in the economy? A down turn that hit contractors very hard.

They aren't a boogeyman.

Its just willful liberal ignorance: ignoring the fact that drastically increasing the low skill labor pool will lower wages.

 

[Sonikku]

what happened to democrats who used to support unions and the middle class?

Now they are willing to flood the labor markets.

Media has more or less turned the American people almost universally against unions. Kind of like cops. They have their place in society, but you only hear about the bad ones.

 

[Orignal Earl]

what happened to democrats who used to support unions and the middle class?

Now they are willing to flood the labor markets.

Do you support unions?

 

[brycejones]

Do you support unions?

michal1980 would never support socialism.

 

[ivwshane]

I've been trying to find a good, non biased study, on the affect of Reagan's amnesty policy on the economy. Has anyone found one?

Based on reading I've done so far it seems like the economy improved when 2.7 million illegals became legal. What I'm interested in is how wages were affected and how unemployment was affected as well. The articles I've read state that wages increased and unemployment went down but no sources were cited.

 

[Indus]

The people who became legal had to pay taxes and show a long paper trail to satisfy the requirements to bring their families here to the United States. So if anything.. that helped our economy if anything. It was on MSNBC like a week and a half ago that Trump is just blowing hot air, first generation immigrants tend to be more hard working and more determined to make it and survive without becoming a criminal than the general population.

 

[michal1980]

Do you support unions?

I do know if I'd go as far as say as I support them. But if people in a private sector want a union, go for it.

Public sector unions - blah.

 

[michal1980]

michal1980 would never support socialism.

unions have little to do with socialism.

 

[sportage]

I know several illegals here illegally.
I know them through other family members that know them or live in the same neighborhoods.
(that sounded dumb)

But want I was going to say is all the male illegals I personally know of work very hard and are quite skilled. One works in electrical wiring, paid under the table, and another does construction and is quite the skilled artist when it comes to wood working.
They live in the shadows and from time to time their employer plays little games with their paycheck. Paying them late and forcing a special trip across town to collect their pay.
All because employers of illegal workforce know there is nothing that illegal employee can do about the unfairness.

If these illegals were ever allowed legal citizenship, as skilled and able as i know they are, that would really change labor in America.
I'd suspect that skilled illegal worker made legal could start his own business and put his boss out of business. At least, give his old employer a run for their money, competitively speaking.

I don't see that as a bad thing in any way.
All they are doing are the two things most successful American businessmen have done after entering this country illegally, and later becoming legal.
One, seeking a better life with coming to America.
Second, taking part in that American dream of becoming successful.

I don't care if your ancestry jumped a fence along the border, or crossed the ocean in a boat from Europe.
The one thing in common illegals of today have with our foreign ancestry of yesterday.
The hope for a better life.
And sorry Donald, but they are not rapist nor criminals.
We all know those white Americans too lazy to work at a job are the true criminals and rapist.

But its easy to take advantage of illegals, just like the employer playing games with their paycheck. Because.... who is going to challenge or complain when you are illegal?
Trump and all the republican hacks can make up anything they want, say whatever they want, lie all they want and scary the general population all they want.
Because like a bully picking on someone half their size, illegals are easy pickings for republicans like Donald Trump.
And who's going to challenge him? That hard working, skilled, illegal alien?

I doubt people are worried about illegals, I'd say people are worried that illegals will be granted legal status and then kick the typical American workers ass.
Yes Donald, I am the evil anti-Trump.

 

[michal1980]

I know several illegals here illegally.
I know them through other family members that know them or live in the same neighborhoods.
(that sounded dumb)

But want I was going to say is all the male illegals I personally know of work very hard and are quite skilled. One works in electrical wiring, paid under the table, and another does construction and is quite the skilled artist when it comes to wood working.
They live in the shadows and from time to time their employer plays little games with their paycheck. Paying them late and forcing a special trip across town to collect their pay.
All because employers of illegal workforce know there is nothing that illegal employee can do about the unfairness.

If these illegals were ever allowed legal citizenship, as skilled and able as i know they are, that would really change labor in America.
I'd suspect that skilled illegal worker made legal could start his own business and put his boss out of business. At least, give his old employer a run for their money, competitively speaking.

I don't see that as a bad thing in any way.
All they are doing are the two things most successful American businessmen have done after entering this country illegally, and later becoming legal.
One, seeking a better life with coming to America.
Second, taking part in that American dream of becoming successful.

I don't care if your ancestry jumped a fence along the border, or crossed the ocean in a boat from Europe.
The one thing in common illegals of today have with our foreign ancestry of yesterday.
The hope for a better life.
And sorry Donald, but they are not rapist nor criminals.
We all know those white Americans too lazy to work at a job are the true criminals and rapist.

But its easy to take advantage of illegals, just like the employer playing games with their paycheck. Because.... who is going to challenge or complain when you are illegal?
Trump and all the republican hacks can make up anything they want, say whatever they want, lie all they want and scary the general population all they want.
Because like a bully picking on someone half their size, illegals are easy pickings for republicans like Donald Trump.
And who's going to challenge him? That hard working, skilled, illegal alien?

I doubt people are worried about illegals, I'd say people are worried that illegals will be granted legal status and then kick the typical American workers ass.
Yes Donald, I am the evil anti-Trump.

So all those illegals raping, murdering people are just made up and take?

Ps why do you hate Americans?

 

[Jhhnn]

unions have little to do with socialism.

Well, then, you can clearly support unions, right?

 

[werepossum]

What? They are in Canada
How about Lather or Acoustical Mechanic?
Maybe they are covered in carpenters unions?

In our area, carpenters are very seldom unionized. Electrical, HVAC, and plumbers/steamfitters are the primary unions. A few areas I have worked up north everyone is union and will walk off the job if one non-Union worker walks on, but mostly Chattanooga is more strongly Union than the average.

Media has more or less turned the American people almost universally against unions. Kind of like cops. They have their place in society, but you only hear about the bad ones.

This is true. It wasn't until I began doing AEC engineering that I really saw the positive side of unions outside of hazardous and/or isolated trades such as mining. Before I saw only how progress had made unions obsolete. Now I can see how a well-run Union can provide value as well as protect the workers.

And no, I have no idea why spellcheck insists on capitalizing "Union".

 

[michal1980]

Well, then, you can clearly support unions, right?

asked and answered.

But to repeat.

Little issue with private unions.

Public unions - blah.

 

[Jhhnn]

Two things here. First, I have seen construction laborer wages fall just in the last twenty years. Drywallers used to earn nearly what electrical journeymen and sheet metal workers earned. Now they earn roughly half that, and the biggest reason is that drywallers typically are not unionized and do not have formal apprenticeship school programs, and thus are much more vulnerable to competition from illegals.

Second, it is worth pointing out that both construction and gardening used to be valid avenues to the middle class. This is obviously not nearly so much the case today.

Please. Construction trades w/o unions have been engaged in a race to the bottom regardless of illegals. Illegals merely fill the gaps in wage suppressed sectors of the economy rather than suppressing wages. They're powerless to suppress wages. Employers are not.

All the frothy rage about immigration is astroturfed distraction from the real causes of working people's economic malaise which are financial manipulation, automation, offshoring, & regressive taxes, the very things that have made rich people richer.

 

[glenn1]

All you hear is Trump and Coulter demonizing immigration and Rand Paul saying we want our country back.

What happened to this stance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi9_cciy8w&t=1m41s

Some part of it is simply current citizens wanting immigrants to "play by the rules" and follow legal channels. For those folks simply raising legal immigration totals would address their concerns.

For others whose motivations are nativism, xenophobia, or outright racism the "legal process" issue is a red herring and they simply don't like the idea of increased immigration period. Graphics like the one below frighten that set. Of course if you told them we'd be increasing immigration from some perceived favored nation like the UK or Australia they'd likely be fine with it, at least until they found out the people arriving from London or Brisbane were of South Asian ancestry.

 

[sm625]

All you hear is Trump and Coulter demonizing immigration and Rand Paul saying we want our country back.

These people have no impact on policy. The policy is "totally open borders". Period. The people who are railing against that policy are just pissing into the wind. Policy is set by the CFR, not these clueless politicians and clueless electorate.

 

[Jaskalas]

All you hear is Trump and Coulter demonizing immigration and Rand Paul saying we want our country back.

What happened to this stance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi9_cciy8w&t=1m41s

You linked it yourself, Reagan was speaking of legal immigration. People today will speak of legal immigration the same way. Many of them will grant amnesty too, but they'll call it comprehensive reform to make it more palatable.

When Reagan granted amnesty they told him it was only 1 million people.
Turned out to be 3 million.

For over the past decade we've been told its only 12 million.
Do you want this to continue to escalate?